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  1. #1
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Default Ranger: Blunted Ammo - Truthful one

    Since we're getting blunted ammo in the low AA abilities it's reasonable to expect every ranger to have this ability. So this hopefully mean no more heroic bows of the silverflame in EE FOT!

    That said . . . what's better a fully-upgraded Pinion or a Triple-Positive Greensteel?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Since we're getting blunted ammo in the low AA abilities it's reasonable to expect every ranger to have this ability. So this hopefully mean no more heroic bows of the silverflame in EE FOT!

    That said . . . what's better a fully-upgraded Pinion or a Triple-Positive Greensteel?
    Bow of the Silver Flame is still amazing thanks to the -20% fortification debuff that everyone benefits from.
    U19 Kensei: Centered Cleaver | TR Junkie Leveling Framework

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  3. #3
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    Bow of the Silver Flame is still amazing thanks to the -20% fortification debuff that everyone benefits from.
    So in guy should be using that, what about the other 11?

  4. #4
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    So in guy should be using that, what about the other 11?
    i'd say triple pos for the disrupt proccs
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

  5. #5
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    Default Pinion.

    Short answer: Pinion. But the GS bow and Pinion are close enough that it isn't a big difference. NOTE: Epic Bow of the Silver Flame is significantly worse than either option.

    Note: damage bonus means all bonuses from str, items, buffs, and little kittens. It is not your str value, or your base attack bonus, or the base attack bonus of the little kitten.

    Assume Deadly Weapons has been cast on both bows.

    Triple pos GS Longbow:
    Holy, Good Burst, Good blast, Greater Disrupt;
    2d6+1d6+0+4d6= 7d6 (24.5 expected)aligned/bane damage on hit;
    4d6+4d6 = 8d6 (28 expected)aligned damage on crit;
    100 bane damage on vorpal(5% chance);
    Assume 0% fort and improved crit(10% crit chance);
    24.5+28*.1+100*.05=32.3 expected damage from procs, per arrow.
    With damage bonus of 20: 2.5[1d8] damage; +5 enhancement bonus;
    (2.5*4.5+5+20)*.9+(2.5*4.5+5+20)*.1+32.3 = 68.55 (expected damage per arrow)
    With damage bonus of 40: 2.5[1d8] damage; +5 enhancement bonus;
    (2.5*4.5+5+40)*.9+(2.5*4.5+5+40)*.1+32.3 = 88.55 (expected damage per arrow)

    Pinion:
    Wailing
    3d6 = 3d6 (10.5 expected) sonic damage on hit;
    No crit
    No vorpal
    Assume 0% fort and improved crit(20% crit chance; remember the improved crit range on pinion)
    With damage bonus of 20; 3.5[2d6] damage; Seeker 10; +8 enhancement bonus;
    (3.5*7+8+20)*.8+(3.5*7+8+10+20)*.2+10.5 = 65
    With damage bonus of 40; 3.5[2d6] damage; Seeker 10; +8 enhancement bonus;
    (3.5*7+8+40)*.8+(3.5*7+8+10+40)*.2+10.5 = 85

    PER ARROW Triple pos GS is a bit more expected damage than Pinion.

    Note that the open red slot and ranged alacrity on pinion are not accounted for in this readout.
    ACCOUNTING FOR ALACRITY/HASTE

    Pinion:
    If you slot a 1d10 damage ruby(fire or acid) into pinion, and account for the alacrity you get
    With damage bonus of 20; 3.5[2d6] damage; Seeker 10; +8 enhancement bonus; Ruby of Sovereign Acid;
    ((3.5*7+8+20)*.8+(3.5*7+8+10+20)*.2+10.5+5.5)*1.2 = 84.6
    With damage bonus of 20; 3.5[2d6] damage; Seeker 10; +8 enhancement bonus; (no ruby)
    ((3.5*7+8+20)*.8+(3.5*7+8+10+20)*.2+10.5)*1.2 = 78

    Triple Pos GS:
    While chugging haste pots with the GS bow, and putting on a seeker 10 item, gives you
    GS Bow; With damage bonus of 20: 2.5[1d8] damage; Seeker 10; +5 enhancement bonus;
    ((2.5*4.5+5+20)*.9+(2.5*4.5+5+10+20)*.1+32.3)*1.15 = 79.98

    Because of Alacrity(and the red slot) Pinion is more damage than GS. And this still does NOT account for the Planar focus set. Planar focus of prowess adds (more than) 4 points of damage to each expected damage value, making the Pinion have more damage than the GS bow in all cases; The improved crit range also means more damage from burst-type imbues, and as your total damage bonus goes higher the expected damage will scale better than with the GS longbow(The value of 20 used here is fairly low for a dps archer).

    Epic Bow of the Silver Flame? Why not use that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    Bow of the Silver Flame is still amazing thanks to the -20% fortification debuff that everyone benefits from.
    Which would be great, except it is my understanding that the TO has 0% fort to start with. Even if he had 20% or higher fort, you would only need to tap him with the bow of the silver flame once every 20 seconds to maintain the debuff. So let us take a look at the actual damage that the bow will deal...

    Epic Bow of the Silver Flame; With damage bonus of 20; 3[1d8] damage; Seeker 10; +8 enhancement bonus(accounts for undead bane); Ruby of Sovereign Acid; With haste;
    Holy burst + Undead bane;
    2d6+2d6 = 14 expected on hit damage;
    4d6 = 14 expected on crit damage; 14*.1 = 1.4 on hit damage;
    15.4 total expected damage on hit from procs.
    ((3*4.5+8+20)*.9+(3*4.5+8+10+20)*.1+15.4 +5.5)*1.15 = 72.91
    But what about being able to use shadow arrows for 5% doubleshot, since you do not have to use morphic? Not accounting for the fact this does nothing during a manyshot,
    (((3*4.5+8+20)*.9+(3*4.5+8+10+20)*.1+15.4 +5.5)*1.15)*1.05 = 76.56 (still less than a pinion)
    This means that the expected damage of the Epic Bow of the Silver Flame is much less damage than the other two bows.

    If you do no agree, please explain to me where I made a mistake in my math.
    Happy questing and good luck on yer loot!

  6. #6
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladislaio View Post
    Assume 0% fort and improved crit(10% crit chance);
    Assume 0% fort and improved crit(20% crit chance; remember the improved crit range on pinion)
    I don't believe there is enough fort by pass to make that assumption vs the truthful one.

  7. #7
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    I don't believe there is enough fort by pass to make that assumption vs the truthful one.
    I suppose they are wrongly assuming 0 % fort for TO for some reason.
    Anyway 20 black+25 precision+15 grim + 20 SF bow tag and he's down to 20 %, acid arrows for another 8, situational sunder from someone and he's close to 0 for furyshot.

    Pinion wins hands down, but you sure know that.
    On the other hand, you have rangers in white sets, people doubting usefulness of precision, or swinging Balizardes against TO.

    Need moar Ghostbane.
    Shahang Nezhat Bellezza Wipekin Farida of Ghallanda

  8. #8
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    Default Yep. Still pinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    I suppose they are wrongly assuming 0 % fort for TO for some reason.
    Anyway 20 black+25 precision+15 grim + 20 SF bow tag and he's down to 20 %, acid arrows for another 8, situational sunder from someone and he's close to 0 for furyshot.
    Assuming that it is 0% because that is what I have been told by people who may run the raid a bit much. If you can provide a link to a test of the fortification levels, or even better a dev post about them, it would be nice.

    More importantly (Improved) destruction stacks up to 15% fort loss now; Thus with improved sunder(which stacks 5 times) the max fort bypass is
    20+25+15+20+15+50 = 145% vs undead (not counting any enhancements or the rogue feat).

    Assuming the TO has 100% base fort, you have precision, t5 Acid arrows, and someone tags him with the Bow of the Silver Flame once every 20 seconds, he will have
    100 - 25 - 15 - 20 = 40% fort.

    Pinion
    With damage bonus of 20; 3.5[2d6] damage; Seeker 10; +8 enhancement bonus; Ruby of Sovereign Acid; Assume 40% fort; Account for 20% alacrity;
    ((3.5*7+8+20)*(1-.2*.4)+(3.5*7+8+10+20)*(.2*.4)+10.5+5.5)*1.2 = 83.16
    Note this is still more than the triple pos GS at 0% fort.
    With a Planar Focus of Prowess
    ((3.5*7+8+20+4)*(1-.2*.4)+(3.5*7+8+10+20+4)*(.2*.4)+10.5+5.5)*1.2 = 87.96

    Triple Pos GS Longbow
    GS Bow; With damage bonus of 20: 2.5[1d8] damage; Seeker 10; +5 enhancement bonus; Assume 40% fort; Account for 15% haste attack speed bonus;
    ((2.5*4.5+5+20)*(1-.1*.4)+(2.5*4.5+5+10+20)*(.1*.4)+32.3)*1.15 = 79.29

    Happy questing and good luck on your loots!

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