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  1. #21
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    CLASSES have absolutely nothing to do with difficulty. BUILDS have.

    Easiest is 15 sorc/5 desired class with +5 LR.
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  2. #22
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post

    Now, for my second go-around, I've changed my TR tactics to something that I find works better and is probably something all people should do. I'm basically running the exact same build for each life. For me, it's 6 artie/6 rogue/8 whatever. This has the benefit for quick, easy gear swaps and setups for each life.
    I tried that for 3 lives and found it to be incredibly boring. I can't imagine playing that way for 12, 15, or more lives. It was a lot more fun to experiment with classes I wasn't really familiar with, or multiclasses. The gearing part I just ignore until 11th level or so. There's really no point in gearing for lower levels since in most cases you're only at that level for a couple hours. Just run with what you find. One trick is to take a few minutes before you TR and move some basic items into your inventory so they'll be in your TR bank as you level. Ff items, str and con items, etc. Makes it a bit quicker to at least get basic gear for any level. Maybe not optimum, but you really don't need optimum at lower levels anyway, they're pretty easy.

    But once I get up around 15 or so, I actually enjoy gearing out the toons. It's part of the fun, and if it costs me an hour of my TR time, I'll get over it.

    It just depends on what you want, maximum efficiency or more fun. I opt to go a bit more laid back and yes, it takes me an average of 10 days to TR instead of 7. But if I get bored, it'll take a lot longer overall because I'll go do something else. Instead of drudgery, (i get that enough in real life) I've had some really great times leveling up some really interesting toons.

    That's why it's so hard to answer the OP's question. There are as many ways to play this game as there are people that play it.

  3. #23
    Community Member BoBo2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    While I agree on the passive pl feat, the active pl feat is a trap. It seems like you're getting toughness with a rage. But you're actually not getting toughness, so you won't be able to get epic toughness unless you get toughness in addition to the barb pl feat. You also may not get all the toughness enhancements.

    The barb mini rage is not worth it. I tried it on a warchanter bard thinking the extra rage from warchanter would give me 2 of these mini rages, but that doesn't work. The barb mini rage is just not enough to make any real difference ever.

    The toughness feat is a better choice. It's a couple more hp, it's potentially more enhancement toughness lines, and it opens the path to epic toughness. All those things are far better than the mini rage.
    I actually love the Barb past life feat!
    +20 hp is sexy at low levels (the Rage clickie is meh)
    This feat is great for leveling and it DOES open up toughness enhancements.
    When you get to level 18 or so, just swap it for regular toughness using your free feat swap.

    ...

  4. #24
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    For me in terms of ease of blowing through heroic quests with power: Sorc, FvS, Cleric, Arty, Druid, Monks.

  5. #25
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    Having capped every class sans rogue wich i only did to level 10
    Including

    3 x druid
    3 x sorc
    2x wiz
    6x bard


    Most horrible class by far to cap is a pure bard

    Let me explain why

    * D6 low hp and no evasion gimp rogue..
    * Horrible horrible dps.
    . Shines only in group settings prepare to group a lot or suffer the consequences.
    . Sub par healing even when spellsinger spells cost way to much mcmw emp maxi vs mass heal emp healing = lol?!
    . Meager spellpool to add insult to the injury
    . Took away displacement buff from party members making you even more **** as healer.
    . No sp back when 0 sp
    . Glorified buffbot
    . Heal scrolls are expensive and quicken dont work on them
    . If spellsinger and mob on you... Good luck with 10 dps it will only take you half an hour.
    . People never seem to know what you do exactly.. They see you got a guitar and you strum it
    And on ocasion they see lill green numbers pop up wich they might asume is a heal but it pales
    In comparison to the mighty nannybot the cleric or the meatmincer fvs. But you dont seem to kill
    Anything and you just tail the group because you dont have awesome run speed or dance or wings
    Or monk jump
    . Sad really sad capstone for a pure warchanter. + 2 charimsa lol +2 dc lol spellpen meh i guess ottos
    Irri dance its not that they take spellpen feats or enh tho.

    * based on a true story *

    . Duo healing shroud with a cleric .. Really tough fight chuckng pots left and right
    Vigoring the cleric whos to cheap to drink anything finally after a hard fight.
    Whole party in canon : wow that was amazing cleric ! Wow you are aweso e cleric i cant
    Believe you solo healed that omg how many pots did you use 0 wow you re awesome im gonna
    Add you and all your guild members to my friend list.
    Party : here take 5 pots their on me !
    Me : guys i actually hea..
    Party : shut up stupid piker you dont get anything you got haggle buy your own pots.


    Oh and i can go on..

    Whats so bad about the barb ? They cant heal themself And they become a lill emo with their pre..
    Get a hireling and just solo stuf. At least they got the highest melee dps in the game .. And cleave
    And great cleave supreme cleave and glancing blows and d12 and rage and frenzy and a nice tod set wich actually suits
    Their class and a great capstone sure they suck when you enter a byoh party but just make your own party
    And pop a hireling when you got 5 problem fixed.
    Last edited by bartosy; 08-07-2013 at 06:59 PM.

  6. #26
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    updated my previous post with my thoughts on the rest of the classes.

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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by katz View Post
    updated my previous post with my thoughts on the rest of the classes.
    Glad to see somebody in here sticking up for the bards.

  8. #28
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    i love mah bards. totally underrated class ;-)

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  9. #29
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    Couldn't agree more, they're my favorites. My main is planned out through about 15 lives to make the ultimate bard. Most people (and it seems a lot in this thread) just don't understand how much they can do if they are properly built.

  10. #30
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    Well for me the easiest to level and TR is Monk solo or group, the hardest is barb (self healing issues for me) bard isnt easy for me either, falling toward the easy side would be wiz,sorc, cleric, fvs,artie and towards the hard would be fighter and rogue with paladin being somewhat easier than those two.

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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kylstrem View Post
    Oh, and I see others keep mentioning "this class isn't good at self-healing so do it first" or some other talk of self-healing.

    I still don't know why this is an issue. If you have a hireling cleric, you never have to worry about self-healing.

    I just finished Completionist about a month ago with a 3-person static group. We never worried about self-healing... we always had 3 hireling clerics and never even paid attention to our health bars in any quest (we finished with about 1600-1700 elite streak).

    Even when one of us was a cleric or FVS we made those melee/DPS builds and didn't have healing spells on our toolbars.

    The only thing we tried to have was a trapper on each life.

    Most people dont have a static group and if I group with a pug hirelings are usually a last minute last resort thing, solo I find I am better not having a hireling most of the time as they die or take to much babysitting I hate hirelings and wish they were never made.

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  12. #32
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katz View Post
    i love mah bards. totally underrated class ;-)
    The trick is not to make them pure.

    On the one hand I'm excited about wail and heal for bards in the enhancement pass, but it's a capstone ability. So it will only be available to pure bards.

    That kinda puts a damper on building a bard with rogue and fighter levels to give it some bite.

    It should be interesting what shakes out after the enhancement pass.

    My completionist is almost done, and the plan all along has been to go bard. But I'm rethinking that now. I don't think wail and heal (at 20th level) is enough to save a pure bard, and the multiclass options are going to suffer as well.

    It is my favorite class in PnP, but in DDO it and Pally are like red headed stepchildren. You never see anyone with a pure build of either.

  13. #33
    Community Member Wanesa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartosy View Post
    . Shines only in group settings prepare to group a lot or suffer the consequences.
    You should support group also during battle! Cast Haste, play music, break enchants, curses, cast good hope, etc. Raise Deaths
    Quote Originally Posted by bartosy View Post
    . Sub par healing even when spellsinger spells cost way to much mcmw emp maxi vs mass heal emp healing = lol?!
    You forgot to pick Maximimize feat
    Quote Originally Posted by bartosy View Post
    . Meager spellpool to add insult to the injury
    I have 1000SP at level 14
    Quote Originally Posted by bartosy View Post
    . No sp back when 0 sp
    You forgot to pick Magical Training feat
    Quote Originally Posted by bartosy View Post
    . If spellsinger and mob on you... Good luck with 10 dps it will only take you half an hour.
    Bluff it. Wield "sneak attack" weapons - that helps
    Charm trash around - it will help you
    Take TWF line, Focus on procs on weapons - wield Paralyzer, Polycurse Dagger and bane weapons.
    Fascinate them!
    Cast Divine Power on self.
    Focusing Chant
    Rage

    Quote Originally Posted by bartosy View Post
    . People never seem to know what you do exactly.. They see you got a guitar and you strum it
    And on ocasion they see lill green numbers pop up wich they might asume is a heal but it pales
    In comparison to the mighty nannybot the cleric or the meatmincer fvs. But you dont seem to kill
    Anything and you just tail the group because you dont have awesome run speed or dance or wings
    Or monk jump
    Ppls always know, what I am doing. When I start play music, everyone is trying to stand near to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by bartosy View Post
    * based on a true story *
    - "Jack attacking our kobolds, oh no!, we are lost, we will loose all workes."
    - "Hey, Shewind is healing them. Great Job!"
    - Jack down, none of kobold killed.

    Thelanis: Shewind the Airbender (Sorc20/Epic5 -> Bard20/Epic8 -> Rog20/Epic8/Epic2 -> Harper_FvS20/Epic4 -> Art20/Epic8/Epic8 -> Rng10), Azaxe (Rog18/Wiz2 -> Sorc20/Epic8/Epic8)

  14. #34
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartosy View Post
    Bunch of nonsense...
    So, what you're really trying to say is, you have no idea how to build a Bard.
    Understood.
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  15. #35
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    Don't understand why would something like twinked 18bard/2 rogue or anything really be so far behined " real " dps in heroics. Torc/ Con opp, Lit2s Khops, Axe or whatever, gear to make up for lower hp, PA and Cleave+Great Cleave or Twf line, decent str + str level ups. Perma displace, perma hage, self heals, full umd .Maybe human dmg boost, baby haste boost from rogue or fighter splash. Divine Power clickies. IC or Vigor on top of that.

    Not really different from bazillions of other melees in heroics and certainly less dependant on others. It's not savant but certainly not barbarian or pally. Or whatever class is "slow" according to popular opinion.
    Some useless stand back and buff charmer might be another thing and too slow and boring though.
    Ghallanda

  16. #36
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kylstrem View Post
    If I were starting this with a new character, i would do it in this order:
    1) Druid (absolute worst class to level)
    HAHAHAHA

    You are doing it so so sooooo wrong.

    Druid is by far one of the easiest classes to level. It also has one of the worst past lives so should be done near the end.

  17. #37
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    CLASSES have absolutely nothing to do with difficulty. BUILDS have.

    Easiest is 15 sorc/5 desired class with +5 LR.
    9druid/2monk/9past life is a very very easy build that has the benefit of not requiring a +5 LR too.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    While I agree on the passive pl feat, the active pl feat is a trap. It seems like you're getting toughness with a rage. But you're actually not getting toughness, so you won't be able to get epic toughness unless you get toughness in addition to the barb pl feat. You also may not get all the toughness enhancements.

    The barb mini rage is not worth it. I tried it on a warchanter bard thinking the extra rage from warchanter would give me 2 of these mini rages, but that doesn't work. The barb mini rage is just not enough to make any real difference ever.

    The toughness feat is a better choice. It's a couple more hp, it's potentially more enhancement toughness lines, and it opens the path to epic toughness. All those things are far better than the mini rage.
    I am looking at it from the perspective of a person that likes to TR and is going for triple completionist (meaning as soon as I hit 20 I TR right away). Epic toughness is not an issue since there is no need to play any epic levels if all you want to do is TR (well, now that you cannot enter epic challenges until 20 you have to play a little just to get your 20 tokens, but I still rarely make it to level 21 before TRing). Also, until level 17 the Barbarian past life feat gives more hp than toughness (a full 20 from the moment you take it instead of 3 + your current level). This makes it significantly better for all but the last few levels. For someone that wants to play at higher levels I would suggest taking the barbarian past life feat and using your free feat change to switch it out when you get to 18. I do have to agree with you though that the rage effect is basically worthless.
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  19. #39
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katz View Post
    what i WILL do, to try to help the decision making process easier, is list potential upsides and downsides to the various classes.

    in alphabetical order:
    I enjoyed reading this breakdown. Well said!

  20. #40
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    Gear, build and playstyle are way more important than class.

    The hardest characters to level up are the ones who can't self-heal, can't self-buff, have no saves and no good defensive gear.

    A melee pure ranger with no gear is easier to level up than a barbarian with no gear - the ranger can cast Freedom of Movement, use cure wands/spells, kills mobs from a distance when it needs to and has evasion. The barbarian starts crying whenever a caster mob looks at him.

    On the other hand, a perfectly geared barbarian with a stash of lesser silver flame pots kills stuff twice as fast as the ranger can. He can make really good use of the kundarak delving boots, silver flame necklace and pale lavender ioun stone. Those self-healing bosses that made your ranger life hell are not a problem for him.

    If you want to play one of the "harder" classes instead of bypassing these lives with the sorcerer trick, get some gear to shore up your weaknesses. Make an insane DPS weapon before going for a melee bard/paladin. Get anti-crowd control gear before playing a barbarian/fighter/rogue. Figure out what sources of self-healing you will use before commiting to a build.
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