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  1. #41
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProducerRowan View Post
    Nope, please burn the castle down.

    Seriously speaking, our next version will include that feedback.
    Thank you.

    So for those of you who can't read between the lines he's telling us it's all up in the air in an early enough development stage that anything is possible. Our feedback will be taken under consideration.

    He's all saying that you should mail all your plat to teh_troll and to sacrifice all the halflings you find in the harbor.

  2. #42
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Thank you.

    So for those of you who can't read between the lines he's telling us that as long as they have solid walls to hide behind, our torches and pitchforks avail us naught.
    Fixed that for you in bold.


    Seriously though, Thanks for the feedback Rowan.
    (And for the humor as well)
    <-Curelite Bottling Company->

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude
    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProducerRowan View Post
    Nope, please burn the castle down.

    Seriously speaking, our next version will include that feedback.
    If I might be so bold as to tell you how to do your job....

    Why don't you just officially disavow the previous incarnation of Epic TR, at least until you have a new Epic TR Proposal 2.0 to present to us? You can, of course, still incorporate elements of the old version into the new one, but it would be wise to clear the air right now and assure us that the new version is going to be fundamentally different enough that we can consider all the most unpopular old changes to be "obsolete". Just a simple, quotable "We are working to find an alternative to Total ED Wipe" would be enough to satisfy all the doomsayers for months.

    No talk of "incorporating feedback" is going to satisfy the masses, it just sounds like you're setting us up to tweak a couple smaller things while still foisting the most unpopular aspects on us. People are going to assume that the worst parts are going to go Live, unless there's an official statement saying there will be no Total ED Wipe on every TR. If you want to avoid all the DOOOOOOM between now and whenever Proposal 2.0 hits the forums, you need to officially clear the slate.

    Conversely, if Total ED Wipe IS still on the table for you....then no one's going to consider that "incorporating feedback" in any way.

    You cant polish that turd, basically, so why not just flush it?

  4. #44
    Franchise Director ProducerRowan's Avatar
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    I'm not going to disavow the previous design for a few reasons, primarily because I don't want to constrain the freedom of our designers. I want to hear the idea first (I've heard a lot of ideas, I want to get to the one we bring back to you).

    Nothing is built, everything is on paper. We definitely got the message that people value their ED progression and don't want to see it wiped. We also want to make TR a tradeoff for players (for Heroic it's character levels for new Feats). I expect Fate Points will play into this in some way. Bear with us a little longer, the goal is to make it a fun system you want to be involved in.

  5. #45
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProducerRowan View Post
    I'm not going to disavow the previous design for a few reasons, primarily because I don't want to constrain the freedom of our designers. I want to hear the idea first (I've heard a lot of ideas, I want to get to the one we bring back to you).

    Nothing is built, everything is on paper. We definitely got the message that people value their ED progression and don't want to see it wiped. We also want to make TR a tradeoff for players (for Heroic it's character levels for new Feats). I expect Fate Points will play into this in some way. Bear with us a little longer, the goal is to make it a fun system you want to be involved in
    .

    Thank you Rowan.

    I really do look forward to working together to make Epic TR, well, epic.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  6. #46
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProducerRowan View Post
    I'm not going to disavow the previous design for a few reasons, primarily because I don't want to constrain the freedom of our designers. I want to hear the idea first (I've heard a lot of ideas, I want to get to the one we bring back to you).

    Nothing is built, everything is on paper. We definitely got the message that people value their ED progression and don't want to see it wiped. We also want to make TR a tradeoff for players (for Heroic it's character levels for new Feats). I expect Fate Points will play into this in some way. Bear with us a little longer, the goal is to make it a fun system you want to be involved in.
    Yaah well said!

  7. #47
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    Thank you and may the odds ever be in your favor...

  8. #48
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProducerRowan View Post
    the goal is to make it a fun system you want to be involved in.
    From what I've experienced, heard, and read here in the forums..

    The most UNfun thing about the destiny system is that you have to turn off up your primary one to level other - less useful - ones.
    <-Curelite Bottling Company->

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude
    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  9. #49
    Community Member Hirosue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    If you legitimately think that's a possibility the day U20 goes live I think you're utterly insane.

    I do not for one second think it's even remotely possible.

    Sadly you may well come to regret saying that.

    Just to remind you. Every update for the last 12-18 months has introduced new bugs, some minor, some severe, some game breaking. Very often they have been clearly highlighted by testers on lamania and the update still gets pushed out knowing it’s bugged.

    Not forgetting the loose all epic destiny at resurrection bug are you?
    "Player testers have done an excelent job and I really do appreciate the testing done by the players that report the issues which then get ignored ......."

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    You will not get an answer.

    All I can say is I don't know anyone who will ever TR again if it means lost of ED XP.
    Sounds like it is time to add to the list of people you know. We already lose 7 million experience when we TR at level 25. If we assume level 28 is another 3 million experience then TRing from level 28 back to level 1 would be losing 10 million experience. Full ED experience is only just over twice that amount. Most people who are comfortable with the idea of TRing in general will become comfortable with the idea of losing ED experience.

    At the moment we are spoiled. We expected ED experience to stay and no one likes having perks taken away from them. But we will adapt. I am not saying there will not be a few stubborn holdouts that would rather sit at level cap bored out of their mind with nothing to do but run old raids (since there are no new ones coming out), but most people that actually like this game will get over the ED loss and TR anyway. Sure they say they won't now, but give them time to accept it. I will certainly be TRing no matter what change ends up going live. Level 20 TR has always wiped 100% of experience so I see no reason why I should throw a fit if Epic TRing did the same. I am fine with them not wiping ED experience, but I have no problem with it if they do.
    Everyone who is not in the true definition of "hardcore" is looked down on as a "casual", unwilling or incapable of understanding the true brilliance of having twelve-year-olds insult you while they are teabagging your virtual corpse. - Christian Ward columnist for The Escapist

  11. #51
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    Sounds like it is time to add to the list of people you know. We already lose 7 million experience when we TR at level 25. If we assume level 28 is another 3 million experience then TRing from level 28 back to level 1 would be losing 10 million experience. Full ED experience is only just over twice that amount. Most people who are comfortable with the idea of TRing in general will become comfortable with the idea of losing ED experience.

    At the moment we are spoiled. We expected ED experience to stay and no one likes having perks taken away from them. But we will adapt. I am not saying there will not be a few stubborn holdouts that would rather sit at level cap bored out of their mind with nothing to do but run old raids (since there are no new ones coming out), but most people that actually like this game will get over the ED loss and TR anyway. Sure they say they won't now, but give them time to accept it. I will certainly be TRing no matter what change ends up going live. Level 20 TR has always wiped 100% of experience so I see no reason why I should throw a fit if Epic TRing did the same. I am fine with them not wiping ED experience, but I have no problem with it if they do.
    Absolute nonsense. Nobody in their right mind will TR if they lose ED XP.

    I've said so, therefore it is fact.

  12. #52
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProducerRowan View Post
    I'm not going to disavow the previous design for a few reasons, primarily because I don't want to constrain the freedom of our designers. I want to hear the idea first (I've heard a lot of ideas, I want to get to the one we bring back to you).

    Nothing is built, everything is on paper. We definitely got the message that people value their ED progression and don't want to see it wiped. We also want to make TR a tradeoff for players (for Heroic it's character levels for new Feats). I expect Fate Points will play into this in some way. Bear with us a little longer, the goal is to make it a fun system you want to be involved in.
    Thank you again.

  13. #53
    Community Member Dawnsfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    You will not get an answer.

    All I can say is I don't know anyone who will ever TR again if it means lost of ED XP.
    Well met. I'm no completionist (only 5 TRs so far) and I do not have all my EDs maxed (all are at least lvl 3 with a few maxed) but I expect some loss of ED xp. It makes sense if you are going to get some sort of past life feat for an ED. I personally prefer if they took the xp from the ED you want a past life in, dumped the rest of the ED xp in an xp cache you could use when and how you wanted to (on heroic, epic or ED levels) and left it at that but I fear all the fire and pitchforks are going to force them to be very conservative. Quite a shame

    Quote Originally Posted by Torc View Post
    I’m only nerfing you now so I can buff you later.

  14. #54
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnsfire View Post
    Well met. I'm no completionist (only 5 TRs so far) and I do not have all my EDs maxed (all are at least lvl 3 with a few maxed) but I expect some loss of ED xp. It makes sense if you are going to get some sort of past life feat for an ED. I personally prefer if they took the xp from the ED you want a past life in, dumped the rest of the ED xp in an xp cache you could use when and how you wanted to (on heroic, epic or ED levels) and left it at that but I fear all the fire and pitchforks are going to force them to be very conservative. Quite a shame
    Short of a life-time pass to the Bunny Ranch in Nevada there is NOTHING they can add to epic TR PLs that are worth giving up ED XP.

    I'd sooner uninstall the game and set my genitals on fire than go through that nonsense again.
    Last edited by Teh_Troll; 08-07-2013 at 06:03 PM.

  15. #55
    Community Member soloist12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danotmano1998 View Post
    From what I've experienced, heard, and read here in the forums..

    The most UNfun thing about the destiny system is that you have to turn off up your primary one to level other - less useful - ones.
    This x1000.

    It makes ZERO sense that as an arcane that wants fate points, I need to run quests with the difficulty of tetris level 1, but in a melee tree. That's like trying to hit 20 on a heroic melee class, but after 15 we're forced into arcane lives to finish the last 5 levels with no questions asked, just 'cuz.

    Just make a button we push that concentrates where we're allocating all our exp to and you immediately solve several glaring problems. A wizard using an arcane destiny? Shenanigans.

  16. #56
    Community Member soloist12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Short of a life-time pass to the Bunny Ranch in Nevada there is NOTHING they can add to epic TR PLs that are worth giving up ED XP.

    I'd sooner uninstall the game and set my genitals on fire than go through that nonsense again.
    Not to mention we won't have blades/jungle/farmhouse at 28 either

  17. #57
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    We will have trial by fire but with XP ransack timer... Just capped my main toons EDs. Looks like 1 last TR before the next update. Leveling EDs is like playing a Paladin finesse build
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

    “A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll feel worse when he feels better.”

  18. #58
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    That's not the concept of the post you quoted. The concept there is that you lose all your destiny xp even if you don't TR; just by virtue of having TRed before, ever.

    For reals? You really think that every single TRed character on all servers -- even if they don't TR again -- could lose all their destiny XP and that this could conceivably be WAI?

    I stand by my characterization of this worry as "utterly insane."
    I don't think it will be wai but I will not be surprised whatsoever if it happens as a bug and takes 6 months plus to fix.
    Quote Originally Posted by ProducerRowan View Post
    Nope, please burn the castle down.

    Seriously speaking, our next version will include that feedback.
    Get em

  19. #59
    Uber Uber Completionist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Short of a life-time pass to the Bunny Ranch in Nevada there is NOTHING they can add to epic TR PLs that are worth giving up ED XP.
    Losing all ED XP is an auto-fail. But expecting to keep it all isn't likely either. We'll see what the next proposal is, they would have to be mental to ignore the amount of feedback from the last debacle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I'd sooner uninstall the game and set my genitals on fire than go through that nonsense again.
    SSOIDH

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProducerRowan View Post
    I'm not going to disavow the previous design for a few reasons, primarily because I don't want to constrain the freedom of our designers. I want to hear the idea first (I've heard a lot of ideas, I want to get to the one we bring back to you).

    Nothing is built, everything is on paper. We definitely got the message that people value their ED progression and don't want to see it wiped. We also want to make TR a tradeoff for players (for Heroic it's character levels for new Feats). I expect Fate Points will play into this in some way. Bear with us a little longer, the goal is to make it a fun system you want to be involved in.
    If it's the same set of designers who came up with the first proposal then they need more than a bit of constraining.

    Some real in-game experience might help them. If they're not likely to get that, why not drag them along to the live DDOCast at GenCon, I'm sure that the crew there will gladly create a spot there for them to interact with some players.

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