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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    It's too bad that, while you're railing against the intolerance, you feel you have to make a big point of your own sex and orientation. Hypocritical, or just insecure?
    Are you seriously confused about the difference between stating your gender and orientation and harassment and bigotry?
    Gildus, Sabathiel, Einion, Yhvain

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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    There are in-game methods of handling harassment.

    What else is there to say?
    There are in game ways of dealing with darn near everything we talk about on these forms. If you're looking for deep meaning, you're in the wrong place.
    Gildus, Sabathiel, Einion, Yhvain

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  3. #43
    Community Member Arnez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enochiancub View Post
    Welcome to the DDO forums.

    Honestly you're better off just asking Cordovan to delete this thread. Whether you intended it or not, it was troll bait the moment it hit the boards.
    Yeah- first trolls, then the jerks that just use this post for a +1 count.....

    (you see nothing)

  4. #44
    The Hatchery kierg10's Avatar
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    Well I am a 16 year old who plays DDO, and I can most definitely say I swear a lot in game.

    But I don't make gay jokes, I don't call people "little girls" for not running EEs (although I will call my friends noobs as much as I want ).

    One thing I find extremely toxic in threads like this is that the adult male gamers often blame kids (anyone under the age of 20 really) for this toxic behaviour, and a few people in this thread already have expressed views of this.

    One type of abuse online that MANY people ignore is that of adults towards kid gamers. I have had so many comments of "shut up adults are talking" when I say something, or someone making rude remarks about my mother (whom they do not know) and saying I suck because I'm a kid (just because I mention it), but then my friends I run with always say they thought I was older than I say I am.......so this abuse is purely directed at AGE rather than ATTITUDE, and people need to look at that as a problem....not just sexism/homophobia/racism/etc.

    Also I used to tell people to stop being homophobic or something, they would ignore me, and then when I asked them again they would cuss me out/tell me to stop being such a queer/***/gay. So yeah, telling people to stop doesn't work.....and I do report people for this ****, I don't know if it ever gets anywhere however as turbine won't tell you what happens lol.
    Ckarlock Alarm (PDK bard 7 fighter 6 rogue 2) life 17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    What I think is OP is anyone who uses implemented game mechanics, standard game features, or their own skill to be more effective in quests then I am - so I then find the time to post complaints about their use of implemented game mechanics, standard game features, or their own skill thus making me OP on the forums.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bridge_Dweller View Post
    Here's a new flash for the people who have not evolved and still play sponge toons: you serve no purpose. it's rude, but it's the truth. Divines are powerful, have been for a long time. They don't need you. If you need them you add no value to the group.

  5. #45
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Seems pretty easy to drop group and blacklist players who offend you. There are players I just wont play with because they annoy me or offend me...or that I just dont like to hear.

    Its cool, we all have a quick easy way to not deal with what we dont want to tolerate. If it is that far out of bounds report it and do the above.

    What we are not going to accomplish is any change in attitude or actions by the playerbase of the game. Its cool to point out that "hey this stinks". If that is your goal then mission accomplished. It does stink. And it wont change.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by kierg10 View Post
    Well I am a 16 year old who plays DDO, and I can most definitely say I swear a lot in game.

    But I don't make gay jokes, I don't call people "little girls" for not running EEs (although I will call my friends noobs as much as I want ).
    I feel ya... I've never been "that guy". Even when I was 14... I was never "that guy" it isn't age that makes people insensitive clods...

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    There are tons of causes for this, just a couple off the top of my head:

    People who spend a majority of their time on the internet (not including work time) tend to have generally poor real life social skills. There are tons of reasons, poor self confidence, anger issues, depression issues, etc etc. But the poor social skills are then amplified by the feeling of anonymity.

    There is also "peer pressure" like issues that ties into the ones mentioned above. Many people want to fit in and they tend to follow those who are mean and abusive because they think that it's a symbol of power. So after time they start acting like this as well.

    These are the resons I personally see most often, but by no means does this explain even a tiny bit of what we see on the internet. Even I am a bit vulgar and down right mean at times. But I only do that with people with whom I am friends with and our "mean/sexism/d0uchebagerry" is actually our playful rapport.

    But Impact is correct, compare to people in FPS shooters like BF3 and COD, MMO's sexists/bullies are kittens.
    I agree with this 100% Prep.

    As a Bi-Sexual Female gamer(Who doesn't hide it), you would think I get a lot of the "abuse" going on in game. But I don't. Don't get me wrong, I've had my run ins with the a**holes, and the jerks a few times and I've dealt with them quickly and appropriately. And never had problems with them again. But in the 3 years I've played this game, I've run into these problems 3 times. That's 1 a year. By anyones standards that's not that much.

    I'll be frank, I grew up in a small town in South East Texas(about 2 hours away from Houston) and I was the only LGBT person around. It wasn't even until I was 16 and moved to Japan that I ever met anyone else like me at all. Most of the people in my town were extremely religious and had their view of the world "set in stone" so to speak. I didn't come out until I was 18 and was back from traveling because I was afraid of what people would say, or do.(Keep in mind just a few miles down the road, the town over was famous for having the KKK still active)

    Now at 23, I've been living on my own here in LA for 3 years, and I lived alone/out of my parents house since I was 16. During most of my time here in LA, I was an "Exotic Dancer"(until just a couple of weeks ago to be exact.) Now, given this I've seen my fair share of sexism, racism, and any other offensive "ism" you can even think of. More than I care to admit, or talk about to be honest. But it really puts this issue into perspective.

    I've learned to take things with a grain of salt, and I've also learned to give people the benefit of the doubt at least once. Only once.
    But I've found, at least with the majority of Argo's population these things aren't an issue. Even when pugging I almost never hear and racial/LGBT/religious slurs thrown around, and I rarely, if ever see anyone berated for these things. Maybe it's just more pervasive on your server?

    What I can say is that it in no way is right, or okay for these people to do what they do. But when you see, live and understand how ugly the real world can get, trolls on the internet seem a lot more tame and a lot less harmful(in the DDO platform. Other games, as mentions are much worse. And I'm not even going to get into the internet in general.).

    The best thing you can do when you come across these people in game is this:
    Report
    Squelch
    Inform said players guild leader
    inform your group of friends/guilds/channels
    After this you don't have anymore problems with this person.

    And above all else, remember to think before you speak, don't judge people for your lack of understanding, and take responsibility for your actions.
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
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  8. #48
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kierg10 View Post
    Well I am a 16 year old who plays DDO, and I can most definitely say I swear a lot in game.

    But I don't make gay jokes, I don't call people "little girls" for not running EEs (although I will call my friends noobs as much as I want ).

    One thing I find extremely toxic in threads like this is that the adult male gamers often blame kids (anyone under the age of 20 really) for this toxic behaviour, and a few people in this thread already have expressed views of this.

    One type of abuse online that MANY people ignore is that of adults towards kid gamers. I have had so many comments of "shut up adults are talking" when I say something, or someone making rude remarks about my mother (whom they do not know) and saying I suck because I'm a kid (just because I mention it), but then my friends I run with always say they thought I was older than I say I am.......so this abuse is purely directed at AGE rather than ATTITUDE, and people need to look at that as a problem....not just sexism/homophobia/racism/etc.

    Also I used to tell people to stop being homophobic or something, they would ignore me, and then when I asked them again they would cuss me out/tell me to stop being such a queer/***/gay. So yeah, telling people to stop doesn't work.....and I do report people for this ****, I don't know if it ever gets anywhere however as turbine won't tell you what happens lol.
    Get off my lawn!

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerPounce View Post
    Are you seriously confused about the difference between stating your gender and orientation and harassment and bigotry?
    Please point out where I said the OP was harassing someone. Oh right, you can't, because I didn't.

    Meanwhile, are you seriously confused about the total lack of a difference between making a big deal about someone's sex or orientation and...exactly the same thing?

    Complaining about it and also doing it seems hypocritical to me.

  10. #50
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    We all have our own tolerance. We are not supposed to curse in game, but it happens in most groups. It is against the rules, but it does not bother me. For that matter there are a ton of things that we are not supposed to do, but people still do them in every party.

    I have very thick skin so you can say nothing that bothers me in a party. Make fun of my wife, mom, call me gay, fat or ugly, it does not matter. I am confident in what I am and I cannot be insulated by a person that has never met me or does not even know me.

    By no means am I saying that people should have to endure this, but if it really bothers them, they can report it and /squelch. This thing called the internet is filled with people that care very little if they upset you, so do not let it bother you. If you take things personal, the troll wins.
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  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Get off my lawn!
    I have to ask: How do you grow such a thriving stand of fescue under that bridge?
    The newest computer can merely compound, at speed, the oldest problem in the relations between human beings, and in the end the communicator will be confronted with the old problem, of what to say and how to say it. - Edward R. Murrow (1964)

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Please point out where I said the OP was harassing someone. Oh right, you can't, because I didn't.

    Meanwhile, are you seriously confused about the total lack of a difference between making a big deal about someone's sex or orientation and...exactly the same thing?

    Complaining about it and also doing it seems hypocritical to me.
    So he was complaining about harassment you claimed he was a hypocrite and "doing the same thing" but you weren't comparing what he was doing to harassment....

    And how is

    p.s. keep in mind that i am a straight male and have not been victim to any of this(other than having to witness it) this is just my observation.
    "making a big deal out it" as opposed to "simply stating it"? I don't see how you could possibly state something in a less ostentatious manner. But reading comprehension doesn't appear to be your strong point so YMMV.
    Gildus, Sabathiel, Einion, Yhvain

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  13. #53
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sebastianosmith View Post
    I have to ask: How do you grow such a thriving stand of fescue under that bridge?
    UV lamps.

  14. #54
    Community Member Arnez's Avatar
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    So.... out of curiosity- what server is the OP talking about? What servers do the rest of you represent as your experience?

    The very FEW times my wife & I have pug'd- it's been on Thelanis. We've been lucky so far, but seeing some of the banter in the Harbor keeps me away from regular PUGing.
    Last edited by Arnez; 08-06-2013 at 04:17 PM.

  15. #55
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    This is not MMO only behavior.
    This is human behavior.

    All anyone can really do is control their own behavior and try to positively influence those around them.
    <-Curelite Bottling Company->

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude
    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  16. #56
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    First I will say that as a member of the "older" but not "oldest" crowd that enjoys playing DDO, I feel all forms of discriminatory, derogatory or just plain impolite social behavior is unacceptable under any situation.

    I grew up Navy and left after 8 years of my own service - I could hold my own against any sailor. What it tells me when one resorts to swearing is that their vocabulary is handicapped. But it only bothers me when it is directed at another person. I will also let someone know that it is time to close the mouth and put the brain back in gear.

    I was raised to respect the feelings of others, even if I didn't understand their culture.

    The problem I see is that people that disagree with an statement or actions of another person, won't stand up and say anything and just sit back and complain about it by calling attention to what they experienced.

    The best way to stop inappropriate behavior is to stand up and say "No, not here".

    I agree Age does not draw the line between the socially inept. But sometimes it is simply because they don't know any better, and just need to be told that it is not appropriate.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerPounce View Post
    "making a big deal out it" as opposed to "simply stating it"? I don't see how you could possibly state something in a less ostentatious manner.
    Making a point of "simply" stating something that is totally irrelevant except to the bigots *IS* making a big deal about it.

    Should someone's real-world sex or orientation matter to people in an on-line game (or it's forums), or not? Trying to have it both ways is hypocritical.

  18. #58
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    As a heavy pugger, I can say I've rarely if ever experienced this behavior on Gland. Now, it's quite possible that this primarily has to do with the large foreign population on the server. America it seems, has quite the claim to the championship belt for incessant trash talking. But, it's been this way since I used to travel to Europe in the 90s and play pickup sports with friends over there. Completely different experience than playing pickup here, even though the competition was easily just as fierce.

    And yes, it's way worse in FPS games, if memory serves (granted I wasn't playing with many foreigners). So no, it's not entirely just human behavior... in some ways, it's especially American behavior.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Should someone's real-world sex or orientation matter to people in an on-line game (or it's forums), or not? Trying to have it both ways is hypocritical.
    I'm always amused whenever someone trying to preach political correctness is called out for a political correctness transgression.

    One of the things I don't like about voice chat is that it removes a layer of abstraction from the game. In other games, I've had cases where my wife would ask me if an in-game friend was male or female... I could look at her and tell her. I don't know. Nor did I care. It would be nice if we could just play the game.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    it's especially American behavior.
    Another group that it is ok to bash. I should have included that in my list.

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