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  1. #1

    Default Enhancement Change is Fine BUT DO NOT TOUCH STANCES AND CUSTOM BUILD DESIGNS.

    There are thousands of custom builds, dual stance builds out there and i've heard rumors that paladin and fighter stances (stalwart) will change so you can only use them with a shield or a sword. I'm not very informed about this rumor but I feel the need to emphasize this on a Forum post to let the admins and the developers know to not change this at all.

    My message to Turbine is very clear; do not touch them, do not change them and let them be how they are, to only improve them if it's needed.
    Since you'll destroy many custom designs players have worked on for months if not years. ...
    A +10 heart will not do any good at all.

    /Signed.

  2. #2
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    I don't think you're allowed to /sign your own posts.

  3. #3
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    A bit late to the party to hope for your objection to be acted upon. Defender stances have required shields in all the lama builds (unless it was changed during closed beta). Also, iirc Monk stances have become a feat choice.

    "Custom builds" is a very broad brush to paint with. Some will be hosed, some will be improved, some never before possible are opened up.

    fwiw: they're giving us a Lesser +20, not +10.

    It goes live in ~2 weeks, the time for sweeping changes (or even significant changes to specific aspects ie stances) is I fear behind us...
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow - btw, do you have change for 10 million population?

  4. #4

    Default Meh

    I might be late but if we get this post popular they have to act eventually or do they want to lose even more dedicated players. A +20 heart won't do anything cause some builds are designed to be melee with no shields and swords and will lose a lot of their power cause of this change. No enhancements will make up for that unless it's wisely implemented.
    Also why chance stalwart stances and pally stances now? When they are already being used for years finely.
    Why change the game so much every time we have to adjust, TR, lesser do whatever for what?
    It's very sad to see Turbine doesn't realize this. I have a build myself that will BE CRIPPLED cause of this change... he's a dual stance handwrap build.

    Stop touching things you don't need to touch and listen to your veteran players for once!

    /Signed
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTastyHead View Post
    I don't think you're allowed to /sign your own posts.
    Well link me the forum rule book where it says I cannot /sign my own post because I just did.
    Afteristar Ghallanda
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  6. #6
    Time Bandit & Hero SirShen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fundamental View Post
    I might be late but if we get this post popular they have to act eventually or do they want to lose even more dedicated players. A +20 heart won't do anything cause some builds are designed to be melee with no shields and swords and will lose a lot of their power cause of this change. No enhancements will make up for that unless it's wisely implemented.
    Also why chance stalwart stances and pally stances now? When they are already being used for years finely.
    Why change the game so much every time we have to adjust, TR, lesser do whatever for what?
    It's very sad to see Turbine doesn't realize this. I have a build myself that will BE CRIPPLED cause of this change... he's a dual stance handwrap build.

    Stop touching things you don't need to touch and listen to your veteran players for once!

    /Signed
    Sorry to say they will not listen and its way too late now. When U19 hits there will alot of changes good and alot of them bad as with all updates.

  7. #7
    Community Member Coyopa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fundamental View Post
    I might be late but if we get this post popular they have to act eventually or do they want to lose even more dedicated players. A +20 heart won't do anything cause some builds are designed to be melee with no shields and swords and will lose a lot of their power cause of this change. No enhancements will make up for that unless it's wisely implemented.
    Also why chance stalwart stances and pally stances now? When they are already being used for years finely.
    Why change the game so much every time we have to adjust, TR, lesser do whatever for what?
    It's very sad to see Turbine doesn't realize this. I have a build myself that will BE CRIPPLED cause of this change... he's a dual stance handwrap build.

    Stop touching things you don't need to touch and listen to your veteran players for once!

    /Signed
    Are you sure he will be crippled? If you were relying on a pair of offensive combat stances or a pair of defensive combat stances, that should not have worked in the first place. If you were relying on an offensive and a defensive combat stance, that will still work. If you were relying on an offensive or defensive combat stance paired with a ranged combat stance, that will still work. Finally, if you were relying on a pair of offensive or defensive combat stances and were switching between the two, that will still work. If you now need a shield, you'll have to find a new way.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyopa View Post
    Are you sure he will be crippled? If you were relying on a pair of offensive combat stances or a pair of defensive combat stances, that should not have worked in the first place. If you were relying on an offensive and a defensive combat stance, that will still work. If you were relying on an offensive or defensive combat stance paired with a ranged combat stance, that will still work. Finally, if you were relying on a pair of offensive or defensive combat stances and were switching between the two, that will still work. If you now need a shield, you'll have to find a new way.
    I have a custom build tukaw wf that uses stalwart I and monk stance with Handwraps so I am screwed like all the other people who have a dual stance build. A shield and a sword are you KIDDING ME lol lmfao looks like a lot of people will quit 17th of august :P
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirShen View Post
    Sorry to say they will not listen and its way too late now. When U19 hits there will alot of changes good and alot of them bad as with all updates.
    So first let players build there characters and plan them, work on them for huge amounts of time only to destroy them?
    sounds like a good idea to me.
    Afteristar Ghallanda
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Defender stances have required shields in all the lama builds (unless it was changed during closed beta). Also, iirc Monk stances have become a feat choice.
    It's not as bad as it first looked.

    Hopefully Lamannia is back up on Friday with a preview of the "go-live" build and with no NDA.

  11. #11
    Community Member RyonsAlt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fundamental View Post
    /snip
    1) If you can /sign your own posts, then I can /anti-sign or /negasign to count against yours, leaving you with net 0.

    2) Everyone has to change, this is a large change. Everyone benefits, everyone gets hits.

    3) Every time Turbine makes some large change a thread like this pops up, people just gotta chill out and see what happens and how it plays out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fundamental View Post
    So first let players build there characters and plan them, work on them for huge amounts of time only to destroy them?
    sounds like a good idea to me.
    The players have been told multiple times an enhancement change is coming, the DDOwiki even has the enhancements that are coming for classes and base races.
    In between when they announced the enhancements and now would have been a good time to prepare your toon for the coming changes, that's part of the reason we have previews on Lama.
    Turbine compensates the players if they do truly make a lot of builds obsolete.

    Games are like gentle sharks, if they stop moving forward they die.
    Last edited by RyonsAlt; 08-05-2013 at 08:08 PM.

  12. #12

    Default lols

    Quote Originally Posted by RyonsAlt View Post
    1) If you can /sign your own posts, then I can /anti-sign or /negasign to count against yours, leaving you with net 0.

    2) Everyone has to change, this is a large change. Everyone benefits, everyone gets hits.

    3) Every time Turbine makes some large change a thread like this pops up, people just gotta chill out and see what happens and how it plays out.



    The players have been told multiple times an enhancement change is coming, the DDOwiki even has the enhancements that are coming for classes and base races.
    In between when they announced the enhancements and now would have been a good time to prepare your toon for the coming changes, that's part of the reason we have previews on Lama.
    Turbine compensates the players if they do truly make a lot of builds obsolete.

    Games are like gentle sharks, if they stop moving forward they die.
    The game is well on it's way to dying, if you look at the open letter in the forum,
    the game is losing login activiy and so on very heavily...
    Less players are laying and people are quitting.

    Change is good but ignorance and messing with things you shouldn't mess with is something else
    If they implement these changes soon there won't be any player left....
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ayer-attrition

    I have been playing a very long time.... but to force us to TR and change builds because of such radical changes is destroying the ddo community brick by brick and gaining nothing just losing more activity and players in the progress ; which has been happening since eGh.

    Good Day.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fundamental View Post
    Change is good but ignorance and messing with things you shouldn't mess with is something else
    I both think that the change is not ignorant and that they should mess with some things.

    So...now what?

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    I'm not sure you're aware what a +20 LR will do... You say that your character is screwed, that the build is broken, that you're being forced to TR...? Well, then change your build. There is literally no character in the game or build possible that will be both broken by the enhancement pass and also completely unrecoverable with a +20 LR. I'm sure many people (possibly yourself included) changes builds when EDs came out, when AC was changed, when new classes were introduced, when new items were added, when you races were added... If you can't adapt to change... Well, why play an MMO, a game type that universally (with some exceptions) is based on constantly adding and changing.

    Sure, some builds are going to lose some things, whether it's because those things weren't working as intended in the first place, or because enhancements are less closely tied to class levels (only need 5 levels to get any non-core enhancement, compared to 18 for tier 3 PrEs), thus forcing some stronger abilities into other areas than they currently are. That's unavoidable, and happens with every significant change (new classes, races, items, levels, EDs, spell pass, AC pass, and on and on).

    There are also a lot more possibilities being opened up. I've been pondering the possibilities of a 17 Sorc/3 Wiz build that can use the Wizard's PM Zombie form to provide the self-healing and immunities that I love in a character without being forced to use consumables & UMD, and without using the Warforged class, which I don't have. I wouldn't be surprised at all if casters started splashing levels in other casting classes to pick up benefits like Wand & Scroll Mastery, something which is entirely unheard of in the current state of the game. Then there's plenty of new possibilities for DEX-based builds, as a lot of weapon types have enhancements coming that gives DEX to hit and damage. I know what you'll say, DEX-based builds are gimp and stupid anyways, but you're also not the only person playing this game. I'd love to play a DEX-based character (some of my first characters were DEX-based Monks), but it's practically impossible to make a character that is actually DEX-based currently without being forced into many other suboptimal choices (as if the suboptimal choice of being DEX-based weren't bad enough) when it comes to weapons and classes. I'm sure there are plenty of other new options I haven't even begun to consider, as well.

    You may not like them, but there are certainly more choices with the enhancement pass. If your build is broken, fix it or find something else, like every other build-changing change before this.

    Of course, this is all dependent on things actually working, not being completely bumbled between when it was in alpha and when it gets released, etc.

  15. #15
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    I think its a bit impractical to think nothing is going to change with builds, over the years the game has changed quite a lot, at one time DC casting was the way to go, people laughed at DPS casters. People would also laugh at ranged characters. Over time changes will happen, and unfortunately peoples favourite builds/characters will get a hit with a nerf bat, a glancing blow or a fatal one.

    There are some good changes it appears with the enhancement pass, and some not so good, and I guess/hope feed back will be considered and some changes made. I don't think that its 100% certain when it hits live that DOS/SD stances will require a shield equipped but we will have to wait and see I guess. I for one wouldn't be that interested in SD or DOS tree much if that's the way its going to be.

  16. #16
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    While I am not a fan of the enhancement changes I have always thought that the defender stances should require a shield defender calls shield to my mind.

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  17. #17
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    While I am not a fan of the enhancement changes I have always thought that the defender stances should require a shield defender calls shield to my mind.
    Yes but what about the times when they don't want to use a shield? Maybe they should up S&B dps a bit because it is kind of an investment for the defender line and if your only going to get any of benefits of it only when you pull out a shield and tank something well..........I mean I tank things with a shield maybe 5% of the time i play that character, many go 2wf or 2hf when they are not using their shields.

    I guess there are great S&B dps builds out there, I will have to look but I haven't really seen many in game, in citw most of the pally/fighters that I saw with s&b out 24/7 hardly ever broke out of single number kills while everyone else was 30-70+. Yeah I know kill counts are not the be all of dps. If you can show me how to build a great awesome S&B all the time dps build please do, I would actually be greatful my search fu is weak.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Yes but what about the times when they don't want to use a shield? Maybe they should up S&B dps a bit because it is kind of an investment for the defender line and if your only going to get any of benefits of it only when you pull out a shield and tank something well..........I mean I tank things with a shield maybe 5% of the time i play that character, many go 2wf or 2hf when they are not using their shields.

    I guess there are great S&B dps builds out there, I will have to look but I haven't really seen many in game, in citw most of the pally/fighters that I saw with s&b out 24/7 hardly ever broke out of single number kills while everyone else was 30-70+. Yeah I know kill counts are not the be all of dps. If you can show me how to build a great awesome S&B all the time dps build please do, I would actually be greatful my search fu is weak.
    Now I dont do citw as I dont enjoy end game that much but on the way up my S&B paly usually holds her own on kills and often has more but that is usually due to having the right weapon for the right foe she is back to low level again though as I just tr'd her again.

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Yes but what about the times when they don't want to use a shield? Maybe they should up S&B dps a bit because it is kind of an investment for the defender line and if your only going to get any of benefits of it only when you pull out a shield and tank something well..........I mean I tank things with a shield maybe 5% of the time i play that character, many go 2wf or 2hf when they are not using their shields.

    I guess there are great S&B dps builds out there, I will have to look but I haven't really seen many in game, in citw most of the pally/fighters that I saw with s&b out 24/7 hardly ever broke out of single number kills while everyone else was 30-70+. Yeah I know kill counts are not the be all of dps. If you can show me how to build a great awesome S&B all the time dps build please do, I would actually be greatful my search fu is weak.
    I really hate not being able to edit my posts anyways they are called defender stances not offender so they shouldnt have higher dps they need to have a better pre for offense

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fundamental View Post
    The game is well on it's way to dying, if you look at the open letter in the forum,
    the game is losing login activiy and so on very heavily...
    Less players are laying and people are quitting.
    The game exists since 2006. "game is dying" threads/posts exists since forums opened. None of them have proven true. With the new expansion it is the game is likely to revive.

    While I disagree with some steps turbine made in the last year, I must admit that they did a great bunch of right choices.

    While I also repeatedly quit the game several times for some weeks and months, I always came back. And I guess this trend will continue.
    Last edited by morkahn82; 08-06-2013 at 05:40 AM.

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