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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post

    Those +8 stat dragon helms don't look so great anymore...
    Shift to an secondary stat?

    Dex for a fighter?
    Cha for a Favored Soul / Cleric?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    One thread says items are lame, next thread says items are too powerful???

    Epic TRing

    Gianthold = epic greensteels


    /not signed

    Stock up the cookie jar cause we might be stuck at lvl 30 for a long time.
    I assume there was an argument in there, I'm just completely missing it.

    V

  3. #23
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Shift to an secondary stat?

    Dex for a fighter?
    Cha for a Favored Soul / Cleric?
    Yeah . .. cause that's worth farming/buying for a secondary stat!

  4. #24

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    Nods sagely with a hint of nutmeg...and ponders a counter point to my point which might be pointless, but since I'm a Halfling no one cares anyway...perhaps on my next life...




    The helms don't need upgrading and are going to be cheap on the shard exchange eventually?
    That is if one wants to keep the armor / helm set bonus?
    Last edited by Silverleafeon; 08-06-2013 at 06:11 PM.

  5. #25
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Hi welcome to MMORPG's

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Hi welcome to MMORPG's
    Not all MMOs work this way. A lot of the newer ones do, yes, but not all of them. You'll also notice that they tend to lose a lot of followers the higher they get in level caps.

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  7. #27
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masadique View Post
    Not all MMOs work this way. A lot of the newer ones do, yes, but not all of them. You'll also notice that they tend to lose a lot of followers the higher they get in level caps.

    V
    You've got me curious, which ones don't have powercreep, I honestly have never heard or played any that didn't have it, my list is
    WoW
    DDO
    Lotro
    Eve
    NWO
    Rift
    Swtor

    This is by no means a complete list of mmos just a list of what I've played. They've all had power creep that just varied in speed of the creep.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    You've got me curious, which ones don't have powercreep, I honestly have never heard or played any that didn't have it, my list is
    WoW
    DDO
    Lotro
    Eve
    NWO
    Rift
    Swtor

    This is by no means a complete list of mmos just a list of what I've played. They've all had power creep that just varied in speed of the creep.
    Ultima Online is the one that comes to mind. I could log on today, it's been going for over a decade, and my character could still hold his own. Stats stayed small, there was a hard cap to what you leveled up to, and monsters were always a threat. Not going to go on a rant about that though.

    Your list is a lot of the very new ones. WoW is the worst power creeper that I know of, hence a lot of people still play "Vanilla" WoW which only includes the first expansion.

    Rubies of Eventide was another MMO with minimal creep, but it was an indie game and has died.


    I don't think I should explain this anymore because I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall. All I'll say is this; when you expand linearly you erase previous usefulness of item/builds, and when you expand sideways, on the same power level as previous, you add more content without over riding the old. Think level 20 cap when we had a bunch of content to do. Now think about level 25.

    Good day,

    V

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masadique View Post
    Your list is a lot of the very new ones.
    WoW - almost 9 years
    LOTRO - 6 and a half years
    Eve - over 10 years
    Rift - over 2 years
    SWTOR - almost 2 years

    I'll add some of my own.

    EQ - over 14 years
    EQ 2 - almost 9 years
    Asheron's Call - 9 years
    City of Heroes - lasted almost 8 years
    DAoC - almost 12 years

    Power creep is not a new fad. There are a few select games that it does not apply to, but those games are absolutely the exception to the rule.

  10. #30
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTastyHead View Post
    Power creep is not a new fad. There are a few select games that it does not apply to, but those games are absolutely the exception to the rule.
    This is correct.
    I don't know how to describe my hatred for rapid power creep - you need power creep, sure. Just not rapid power creep.
    The last set of items (EE GH) shouldn't be invalidated in one expansion. Instead, new items should be slightly better. Old things should be valid for more than just leveling to cap.

    I wish I knew what level 20 cap was like, but I wasn't here. Sounds better than this though.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTastyHead View Post

    Power creep is not a new fad. There are a few select games that it does not apply to, but those games are absolutely the exception to the rule.
    No argument from me at all. I shouldn't have said new. I simply don't think it should be required or implemented. Yes, it exists, so do a lot of unpleasant things in life and games. Nothing says I have to agree with it though.

    V

  12. #32
    The Hatchery Syllph's Avatar
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    Default Mods would have been better

    My wish would be to implement item mods rather than new items all together.

    Take a nice base item and each raid/expansion would allow us to modify it. (Note you can modify any item you like including named)

    example of how this could be done:

    Tempest Spine - Eye of the Storm Reaver -- Used in the Stone of Change and adds shocking burst to weapons OR 10% elec absorption (some players don't use melee. This would make it worth obtaining for any class)

    Abbot - (Held in quiver slot) Quiver (as live), scabbard (for melee types), Spell book (Wizards), Arcane Focus (Sorcs), Holy symbol (Divine types). These items could be upgraded several times with any number of features.

    Hound -- Claw of the Beast. Used in the Stone of Change and adds the bee effect on hit / on being hit (for armor)

    Vision of Destruction -- Horn of the General. Used in the Stone of Change and adds fire bats. A chance to proc the lethal fire bats from the final fight.

    Titan -- adds a colorless socket. Colorless sockets could be combined to make colored sockets. (ie 3 colorless combined makes a yellow).

    Master Artificer -- adds +15 craft to an item. Now you can craft on your favorite items.

    Lord of Blades -- adds the standard LOB weapon effects to the item of your choice.


    ______


    With this kind of concept, tweaked as the community found necessary, items wouldn't become outdated very quickly. Additionally the older content would still find players and would be run (When's the last time you ran Titan.....).

    The basic concept is that they could allow you to keep that awesome new item and modify it, rather than having it become complete junk. The new content would allow us to modify our Dragon Armor, Twilight, etc. Not just throw them away.
    Last edited by Syllph; 08-09-2013 at 03:38 AM.

  13. #33
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    Just because power creep exists in most games doesn't mean that there is no degree of "creep" that is objectionable. Saying "welcome to MMOs" misses the point. We're going from +8 to +11 in one update, that's a 37.5% increase. "Power creep" is a 1-5% increase, a 37.5% increase is a lot more than your standard MMO power creep.

    This moves DDO from being a "slow power creep" game, to possibly the fastest power creep of any game I've played. Certainly much worse than WoW.
    Gildus, Sabathiel, Einion, Yhvain

    Cannith

  14. #34
    Community Member LightBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masadique View Post
    The first thing I thought when I saw the new items was, "Oh god no, this is just like epic DnD."
    Congratulations on being the first to complain about DDO being to much like DnD.

    I think that should earn you a forum title.

    One, two! One, two! and through and through. The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head. He went galumphing back.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightBear View Post
    Congratulations on being the first to complain about DDO being to much like DnD.

    I think that should earn you a forum title.
    Hahaha, I'm serious though. You think, "Sweet, I can now attack 20 times per turn with 50d6 each!" Then you play one round, and walk away in disgust over the hour you just spent scratching a guy.

    V

  16. #36
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    This rapid power creep is the biggest contributing factor to player attrition.

    Having a massive leap from +8/3 to 11/5 means that now people have little reason to farm any of the old content. Thousands of hours worth of content is almost completely irrelevant. Some power creep is to be expected, but doing it so rapidly with such little regard to older packs is asinine. Obviously, Turbine figures the majority of people who were going to buy the Eberron stuff already did, so there is no point worrying if nobody runs it.

    But the issues arise due to lack of variety. If all the best stuff comes from one pack, people solely run that ONE pack and burnout happens much sooner. Also, with LOOTGEN items being this powerful, it will not be difficult at all (comparably speaking) to gear up. And then once people do, which should happen within a matter of a couple weeks, they'll run these new quests a few dozen times and decide "welp, I've got the gear I want and I've run this so often that it's boring... Time to go inactive until U20."

    If old content were more worth doing, people wouldn't burn out nearly as fast. It certainly doesn't help now that the precedent has been set that anything people do will be completely invalidated within a few months. Why even bother?

    Also, after seeing 11/5 stats and 136 SP augment crystals (which logically means that we'll see 142 on lootgen sticks, rendering Twilight junk), it makes me wonder how many of the other Web weapons will be worthless? Next to Shroud, Web/FoT are the only raids run with any regularity. Are those raids, too, now going to be obsolete? Will Shroud be the ONLY raid that still has any reason left to run it?
    Last edited by djl; 08-09-2013 at 11:11 PM.

  17. #37
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerPounce View Post
    Just because power creep exists in most games doesn't mean that there is no degree of "creep" that is objectionable. Saying "welcome to MMOs" misses the point. We're going from +8 to +11 in one update, that's a 37.5% increase. "Power creep" is a 1-5% increase, a 37.5% increase is a lot more than your standard MMO power creep.

    This moves DDO from being a "slow power creep" game, to possibly the fastest power creep of any game I've played. Certainly much worse than WoW.
    I probably didn't put it quite right being as I tried to make a sarcastic joke out of it. But power creep is something that is pretty much industry standard. WB wants turbine to do standard things see the expansions etc, so we're going to get power creep. There is zero we can do about it if we want to play mmos, it's a case of live with it or don't play em imo.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerPounce View Post
    Just because power creep exists in most games doesn't mean that there is no degree of "creep" that is objectionable. Saying "welcome to MMOs" misses the point. We're going from +8 to +11 in one update, that's a 37.5% increase. "Power creep" is a 1-5% increase, a 37.5% increase is a lot more than your standard MMO power creep.

    This moves DDO from being a "slow power creep" game, to possibly the fastest power creep of any game I've played. Certainly much worse than WoW.
    Couldn't agree more, but really isn't that like agreeing that "2+2=4"?

    Just glancing at the new items, it took me less than a dozen seconds to say "really?" when I saw the stat increases. There is a huge difference between valid powerCREEP and whatever-the-heck this is. Given that the new content is higher level but has no new raids, then it would be completely valid to see a couple of items with +9 stats (EE version), assuming they weren't loaded up with all kinds of other prefixes/suffixes. What we get is so glaringly ridiculous that "devs don't get it" and "do devs even play this game?" aren't even needed (but I'm saying it anyway just for the fun.)
    Thelanis:
    Annikka (Sorc), Dannikka (F), Jannikka (Rgr)
    Tamikka (Bard), Famikka (Rgr)
    Bellynda (Cl), Mellynda (M)

  19. #39

    Default I for one think we should reduce stats

    There should be more items that reduce everyone's stats so that mobs can kick our butts. For too long have we crushed even the mightiest of mobs. They should start putting stuff in their chest so that the next bad guy has an easier time killing the hero's not a harder time. Seriously what kind of evil scheme are we running here?

    And the items should be cursed and instantly equip and only be able to be replaced by even worse items. Now we're cooking no more 85% completion rate for everything now!

    Bowserkoopa,

    Good guys complain too much, think of how little the bad guys got out of the enhancement pass

    Keeper of Keenbean's Heart

  20. #40
    Community Member Gadget2775's Avatar
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    Been thinking about this since looking at the new items...Modify Epic Levels to include an innate boost to DC's/abilities every other level or so. Prevents us from needing higher stat/dmg gear all the time.

    IE +1 to hit, damage, +xx universal spell power, +1 dc all spells, + 1/2 spell pen etc.

    If done properly all new gear could have the same general power level as older stuff, with each new update adding to the variety of level appropriate gear and we could still become more powerful.
    D.W.A.T: (Now with Non-Dwarf support)
    Founder of the (D.W.A.T) Elf Rebellion and Supporter of the H (alfling). I(ntel). T(eam).

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