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  1. #81
    Community Member Grosbeak07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fundamental View Post
    17th of August the day DDO players loses half of it's devoted players (the half that is left) :P

    CAN'T WAIT
    At this point your not making much sense. The 17th of August (other than being my wedding anniversary) is a random Saturday. The xpac is on the 19th, so what... already have plans for the 18th?

    But please, keep posting this nonsense in as many threads as possible, and thank you for starting one about this.
    Magical Rings are well... magical. - Gandalf

  2. #82
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosbeak07 View Post
    At this point your not making much sense. The 17th of August (other than being my wedding anniversary) is a random Saturday. The xpac is on the 19th, so what... already have plans for the 18th?

    But please, keep posting this nonsense in as many threads as possible, and thank you for starting one about this.
    Happy anniversary.

  3. #83
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    I get what you are saying for sure but I don't really have an agenda other than ... make it fun again.

    The game is less fun than it used to be, and obviously to more and more people as the logons are decreasing.
    Again I have to agree with you. In fact I sincerely hope that most of the people giving feedback want for a "better" game overall.

    However the problem happens when we disagree on what is "better" on what is the "right" direction of the game.

    Case in point, for me, I feel that one of the best game features of DDO revolves around TR mechanic, and would like to see more real development done in that direction, from Racial Past lives, to a revision to the current past life feats to make them more fun, rewarding, and thus worth the time and effort to TR. Also, I would like to see more dynamic heroic content being put out to make leveling easier as a TR, maybe even additional difficulties that reward additional exp at the cost of no loot, for players who are just past the point of needing coin. There is much they could do to make TRing far more fun then it is, and I would like to see them explore those avenues.

    Equally so, I am sure others could not care less about TRing and want total focus on End Game, or Max Level stuff. Also, I would wager there are even some that think that TRing ruined the game and should be done away with. In that front, Turbine will always run the risk of displeasing someone.

    Now, it seems they are trying to dance the line between End Game, and TRing with the Dual dungeon setting of Heroic and Epic difficulties. I can't blame in that front for trying to please as many as possible, but, even with that, there are some I would bet would rather just more "pure" end game, while I bet there are others that would rather that Heroic be the only levels in the game.

    In that front, it becomes very hard to say what is "better" or "More fun" when we all have different tastes.

    But, I will admit that some things turbine has done, do a show a lack of consideration, and just to use this as an example. The revision to existing loot with these new colored sockets. While a good idea on the surface as it adds all kinds of dimensions to the game, which is great, but they did not put in a means to just upgrade the heroic stuff, and thus older players are forced to now go and re-farm the gear we already acquired once (some of it, not so common) and it's just my opinion here, but that shows a lack of thinking about their player, and putting their player first. [SIZE=2]Which I think we all can agree, if you cease to think about your customer, you will lose them.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=2]So while we may not agree on what is fun, we can all agree that if Turbine is in fact not thinking about it players, it's game, and it's design, in the sense of being enjoyable for the people who play the game, they will lose us, regardless if they listen to our rantings or not.[/SIZE]

    I mean if we all agreed on something, yah, then the smart thing to do is listen.. LOL.

  4. #84
    Community Member Grosbeak07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    Happy anniversary.
    Thank you. I'm sure the wife will want some sort of in game item again this year.
    Magical Rings are well... magical. - Gandalf

  5. #85
    Community Member der_kluge's Avatar
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    Even without statistics, it doesn't take a genius to see the massive drop in LFMs and overall activity. I've definitely noticed it. Of course, I also haven't played as much as I used to, and part of that is the lack of activity, and part of it is personal.

    For my part, I think all the changes at the epic levels have just vastly confused and bewildered the average player. I've played this game for 4 years almost and I've never leveled a character to 21st. I'm still perfectly happy trying to continue to TR my two main characters. There's absolutely nothing about moving into epic destiny territory that interests me whatsoever.

    That being said, I think the game has some serious quality issues when the character level hits around 16. The content starts to suffer greatly - not only in number, but in ease. Many of the Vale quests are complex, impossible to solo and excessively challenging. In the Flesh is nearly impossible at level on elite.

    Everyone I know pretty much only run elites these days. To backtrack on my ramblings, there are several key things that need to be done to keep people from getting bored in this level range.

    1. Fix it so that people actually run RAIDs at level again. I never see an at level Shroud or VoD/HoX RAID anymore. ever. I haven't ran the latter two in eons.
    2. Fix the bravery streak mechanic so it's not so easy to break. I'd be happy to run In the Flesh on hard if it didn't mean breaking my 200+ streak.
    3. ENCOURAGE me to party with a full group of people. Once I finish my current life, I'm going monk. You think I'll need any help whatsoever running any content sub level 9? Absolutely not. That's a serious problem.
    4. Make it easier to get through the absolute slog that is level 18. See also #1. I'm sick of running the same content over and over. I'd like to add House C stuff but those rarely get ran. I don't see people running the house C raids at all.
    5. Make it easier to TR. That's a HUGE amount of reuse for this game. But with the population down, I'm having a hard time finding groups, and I can't solo anything at my level, so I'm in a vicious cycle. I used to run Shroud, but never see it ran at level for XP (or at least very rarely). So, XP is harder to come by. So, it gets really, really boring. And then, at 20, I used to could run epic content to farm for tokens, but I'm not sure how that works anymore, so now I have to literally spend about $20 every time I want to TR, since that's about the going rate of a druidic heart. Which is really expensive. Solving this problem kind of implies all others have been solved, but if hearts were cheaper, I'd be more likely to continue to TR and conversely - continue to play for a long period of time.
    Cannith:
    Brigette; Warlock12/Monk3(14th life) || Aoeryn; Wiz20(3rd life).

  6. #86
    Community Member Tecc's Avatar
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    You've been heard!

    Some of the interpretations of the data here are .. unique. The Oracle looks at the Quarterly Traffic Report and thinks "Well, it covers every day of the week, and some days are busier than others. So peak to peak, that looks like about a 13% drop, during mid-summer. Further, that's ignoring the 30% rise on Wayfinder and the mysterious meteoric rise of Ghallanda.

    But the Oracle only observes. Each must decide for himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    I found some information about my guild and it's not accurate.
    Please check the date on the last guild report run. And the FAQ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    The same valid criticisms were levied numerous times against his last cherry picked data set.
    HIS cherry picked data set? The Oracle is alone in Barad-... his observatory.

    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Wouldn't it also be interesting to see a 13 month May to May chart? Track the game's progress over a full year, through all seasons including comparison of the same month a year later
    As mentioned elsewhere, the MotU special report is an annual report. The half of June on the left was deliberately left there to show where things were before the expansion hit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    If you ever wondered why developers do not listen to most of their player base, it is because they are made up of people like you, who simply will not listen or observe what is being said
    It's true, developers are scum! Trust the Oracle on this one. [Baby-eating is totally not proven though.]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fundamental View Post
    17 August 2013 The Day DDO lost another 10.000 players cause they logged on to find a +20 heart in their mailbox and their best characters totally broken and gimped out.
    Not funny.

    Humor aside, there are a number of legitimate concerns in the course of this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    Awesome pull, man thank you for bringing this into the thread
    Totally awesome. It's a shame there isn't some sort of website devoted to this stuff. Even cooler if if they did special reports and such.
    The All-Knowing Oracle of www.ddoracle.com

  7. #87
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by der_kluge View Post
    2. Fix the bravery streak mechanic so it's not so easy to break. I'd be happy to run In the Flesh on hard if it didn't mean breaking my 200+ streak.

    5. Make it easier to TR. That's a HUGE amount of reuse for this game. But with the population down, I'm having a hard time finding groups, and I can't solo anything at my level, so I'm in a vicious cycle. I used to run Shroud, but never see it ran at level for XP (or at least very rarely). So, XP is harder to come by. So, it gets really, really boring. And then, at 20, I used to could run epic content to farm for tokens, but I'm not sure how that works anymore, so now I have to literally spend about $20 every time I want to TR, since that's about the going rate of a druidic heart. Which is really expensive. Solving this problem kind of implies all others have been solved, but if hearts were cheaper, I'd be more likely to continue to TR and conversely - continue to play for a long period of time.
    Absolutely agree with everything you say, with the addition of comments on the above points.

    On bravery streak; 200? Over 5 means nothing. Breaking streak is no big deal when you know you can pick up 4 quick quests to get your streak back. I do it all the time. It works best if you do 4 short quests that don't have much xp anyway, that way the bonus you're losing is generally about the same as the xp you're getting from running something like Flesh on hard. Or just quit worrying so much about xp and have fun. The xp will come. As far as I know, there's no award for getting to 20 faster than anyone else. I generally don't bank levels, farm quests, or any of that power gamer stuff and I still manage to get TR'ed in a couple weeks. And I drop BB frequently to play with friends who are more casual, do those near impossible quests like In the Flesh, or whatever. I don't ignore xp and bonuses, I just don't make it priority number 1. Priority 1 is fun, everything else is secondary.

    And on making it easier to TR. I disagree, mostly. I mean I agree with the part about making it easier to find groups and/or making things easier to solo. Once you start getting much past 15 or so, there are a number of quests that are a pita to solo. There are a bunch at a lower levels too, but it's easier to skip them as there's lots of other content you can solo instead. I've gone several lives without running anything in Necro, mostly because I was soloing pretty much everything and there's so many quests in Necro that can't be soloed, or aren't easily soloed. And secondly because soloing something like bard in Necro is kinda like hitting yourself in the head with a hammer. It feels so good when you stop.

    Like you I have very little interest in EDs. The only reason I even bother with them is because of the content available after level 20. Some of it is a lot of fun, but yeah, the EDs are ridiculous and ruin the immersion for me. My wizard can now throw boulders? My fighter can create a Tsunami? And the fact that they're so powerful that people create multiclass toons specifically to take advantage of EDs and could care less about the class abilities for the first 20 levels means that EDs are completely out of whack. But you can run for a bit in the upper levels and get your tokens to TR. It's not that hard and can save you a lot of money if you're TRing a lot with several toons. I have one toon I leave in epic levels just to run for tokens. And on my completionist, I have leveled a small amount of EDs with each TR so that by the time I reach completionist, I will have most all the EDs maxed too should I choose to run that toon in those levels. This way that toon is free to do whatever I want, the tokens are farmed for the most part, and I have a chance to run some of the content as well.

    The token thing is pretty simple. Some of the epic quests reward tokens of the 12, or fragments of tokens. The tokens and fragments (100 fragments makes a complete token) can be taken to the guy outside the tower of the 12 by the altar. The fragments can be crunched in the altar there to make complete tokens, and when you have 20 tokens, you can trade them for the druidic heart of wood, all right in the same spot and convenient. You can, with a little effort, get 20 tokens in 3-4 nights of play, so it's not like it's a big deal. Devil assault pays off complete tokens, most other quests will give you ~40 fragments. Lords of Dust is a favorite as it's quick and 10 runs will give you 6-7 tokens. And there are plenty of other quests too if you don't want to run something over and over.

  8. #88
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    All we have is info that says log-in activity is down.
    Well, we don't even really have that. We have a narrow stat that could just as easily mean the same people are logging in, but playing longer. Only Turbine has any kind of real data about who is playing, for how long, how often, spending how much, etc. We can only assume they are looking at that when making their decisions.

  9. #89
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    Well, we don't even really have that. We have a narrow stat that could just as easily mean the same people are logging in, but playing longer.
    Wait. We do know the number of log-in's are down. But you are right, and I have already said this, we have no idea Why's they are down, or what is causing the number of log-in's to decrease, or if this is even player attrition at all.

  10. #90
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    As one of the people that has largely stopped playing since U17.1, having logged on maybe five times since that update, here's what has driven me to put my gaming time elsewhere:


    - First and foremost, the increased level of paid cheating in game. MMOs are about accomplishment, and being able to pay for an XP stone to cheat your way from level 8 to 16, or to unbind a BtCoE item, or to do various other things that used to be considered exploits has totally driven me away from the game. 10/20/30% XP pots and +2 loot gems were tolerable (although at times the +2 gems can be extremely powerful if you have access to undocumented information on how to use them).

    - Secondly, the upcoming level cap raise. Almost every level cap raise in DDO's history has had the effect of virtually deleting the old endgame content (with the only real exceptions being 12-14 and 16-20, because DQ2 and Shroud had such overpowered loot). eGH was fairly high quality content, but why bother trying to master it when it's going to be de facto deleted in a few weeks? I led the gamewide first EE Fall of Truth completion, then pretty much never ran it again and didn't complete any of the other EE GH content. And we knew before ever seeing a single Lamannia drop that the new items would obsolete all existing ones because of the cap increase.

    - Thirdly, the underdocumented enhancement overhaul. So much of DDO is about earning small advantages that are perfect for your toon. Why bother when you don't know the shape of the game's future?

    - Finally, the fact that sixteen months after MotU introcued EN/EH/EE, the difference between them is all in mob stats still, and the three difficulties are equally complex. None of the feedback about 'EE and EN should have similar stats with more complex mob abilities on EE' was ever taken on, and instead it's just the same 'EN = 60% base CR, EH = 85%, EE = 135%, all stats derived from CR' failed system, which leads to higher and higher HP, saves and damage output on mobs that are still as stupid as ever.


    This is a real pity because I felt Update 17 (without the disaster of 17.1) was the best update DDO had had since Update 11, and unlike U11 U17 had content for all high level players while U11 was mostly aimed at the strongest 30-40% of high level players. But the impending level cap raise and creeping paid cheating ruined the excellent work of content designers.



    Edit on the other discussion here on numbers: All the channels I used to play in have collapsed. All of them. The Crimson Eagles led channel has gone from 35 in Australian evenings to 6, the 'Epic' channel has gone from 20 to totally gone, and even the serverwide 'trades' channel has gone from 100-300 to under 10. The last is probably as much due to trolls making it unpleasant as any decline in numbers, but the others would have me concerned.
    Last edited by sirgog; 08-11-2013 at 07:05 PM.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  11. #91
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post

    Edit on the other discussion here on numbers: All the channels I used to play in have collapsed. All of them. The Crimson Eagles led channel has gone from 35 in Australian evenings to 6,
    I miss you guys.............

  12. #92
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    - First and foremost, the increased level of paid cheating in game. MMOs are about accomplishment, and being able to pay for an XP stone to cheat your way from level 8 to 16, or to unbind a BtCoE item, or to do various other things that used to be considered exploits has totally driven me away from the game. 10/20/30% XP pots and +2 loot gems were tolerable (although at times the +2 gems can be extremely powerful if you have access to undocumented information on how to use them).

    - Finally, the fact that sixteen months after MotU introcued EN/EH/EE, the difference between them is all in mob stats still, and the three difficulties are equally complex. None of the feedback about 'EE and EN should have similar stats with more complex mob abilities on EE' was ever taken on, and instead it's just the same 'EN = 60% base CR, EH = 85%, EE = 135%, all stats derived from CR' failed system, which leads to higher and higher HP, saves and damage output on mobs that are still as stupid as ever.

    Edit on the other discussion here on numbers: All the channels I used to play in have collapsed. All of them. The Crimson Eagles led channel has gone from 35 in Australian evenings to 6, the 'Epic' channel has gone from 20 to totally gone, and even the serverwide 'trades' channel has gone from 100-300 to under 10. The last is probably as much due to trolls making it unpleasant as any decline in numbers, but the others would have me concerned.
    On your 'channels' point, I agree. I don't really need DDOracle stats to know that activity during my normal play times is down.

    On your Final Point, I don't really have a horse in that race. I'm not 'good' enough for most EE content. I'm happy to be able to access EN/EH loot though.

    On your First Point, I'm split. Have you never rolled up a lvl15 character on paper in order to play some new campaign a buddy just bought? Have you never 'fudged' the loot table in order to have a better chance at something cool in said campaign, especially if you had no idea how often or even WHEN you may get to play with that group again? PnP had plenty of ways to 'cheat' that were considered okay under certain conditions. It was always the players' choice which rules they'd follow and which they'd bend or break. You yourself say you're not ok with certain 'cheats' (xp stones and unBtCoE) while being okay with others (xp pots and loot gems). And it's no different here. If you don't like the xp/loot/bindedness 'cheats', feel free not to use them. It may or may not be diluting the game for others, but it should in no way affect your day.

    Points 2 and 3 are bang on.
    Last edited by BOgre; 08-11-2013 at 10:20 PM.

  13. #93
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    On your 'channels' point, I agree. I don't really need DDOracle stats to know that activity during my normal play times is down.

    On your Final Point, I don't really have a horse in that race. I'm not 'good' enough for most EE content. I'm happy to be able to access EN/EH loot though.

    On your First Point, I'm split. Have you never rolled up a lvl15 character on paper in order to play some new campaign a buddy just bought? Have you never 'fudged' the loot table in order to have a better chance at something cool in said campaign, especially if you had no idea how often or even WHEN you may get to play with that group again? PnP had plenty of ways to 'cheat' that were considered okay under certain conditions. It was always the players' choice which rules they'd follow and which they'd bend or break. You yourself say you're not ok with certain 'cheats' (xp stones and unBtCoE) while being okay with others (xp pots and loot gems). And it's no different here. If you don't like the xp/loot/bindedness 'cheats', feel free not to use them. It may or may not be diluting the game for others, but it should in no way affect your day.

    Points 2 and 3 are bang on.
    I would have no issue with selling catchup packs (gear 'good enough' to get a foothold in at a new level). That's not what's in the store. Things like basic equipment sets with low-end stats that cover all of the essentials (e.g. a +5 flaming burst weapon at level 12, or a Heavy Fortification ring at 10).

    Instead we get top-end power items and store-only bugfixes almost exclusively. Skill tomes, +4 tomes, fate tomes, store-only solutions to the failures of the implementation of EDs (you want to train Magister on your Cleric? Guess what, you need to train Shadowdancer to 4 first).

    Exploiting raid timers was declared cheating and a bannable offense for the majority of DDO's lifetime, now this cheating is sanctioned and honest players suffer (at least in CITW) due to lower drop rates that were designed around the paid cheating. Etc etc.

    You also can't ignore the XP stone paid cheating, as it totally decimates grouping in the 8-15 range. If you aren't cheating, you can't TR when those stones are on sale or for a week or two afterward unless you are willing to be almost solo for those levels.


    The original post-EU DDO model of selling content, consumables and convenience had integrity, the game no longer does. That is the main reason I didn't buy the expansion and if I get it at all, it will be by TRing enough to amass TP. I simply no longer trust Turbine the way I did prior to the paid cheating epidemic.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  14. #94
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    On your 'channels' point, I agree. I don't really need DDOracle stats to know that activity during my normal play times is down.

    On your Final Point, I don't really have a horse in that race. I'm not 'good' enough for most EE content. I'm happy to be able to access EN/EH loot though.

    On your First Point, I'm split. Have you never rolled up a lvl15 character on paper in order to play some new campaign a buddy just bought? Have you never 'fudged' the loot table in order to have a better chance at something cool in said campaign, especially if you had no idea how often or even WHEN you may get to play with that group again? PnP had plenty of ways to 'cheat' that were considered okay under certain conditions. It was always the players' choice which rules they'd follow and which they'd bend or break. You yourself say you're not ok with certain 'cheats' (xp stones and unBtCoE) while being okay with others (xp pots and loot gems). And it's no different here. If you don't like the xp/loot/bindedness 'cheats', feel free not to use them. It may or may not be diluting the game for others, but it should in no way affect your day.

    Points 2 and 3 are bang on.
    I would have no issue with selling catchup packs (gear 'good enough' to get a foothold in at a new level). That's not what's in the store. Things like basic equipment sets with low-end stats that cover all of the essentials (e.g. a +5 flaming burst weapon at level 12, or a Heavy Fortification ring at 10).

    Instead we get top-end power items and store-only bugfixes almost exclusively. Skill tomes, +4 tomes, fate tomes, store-only solutions to the failures of the implementation of EDs (you want to train Magister on your Cleric? Guess what, you need to train Shadowdancer to 4 first).

    Exploiting raid timers was declared cheating and a bannable offense for the majority of DDO's lifetime, now this cheating is sanctioned and honest players suffer (at least in CITW) due to lower drop rates that were designed around the paid cheating. Etc etc.

    You also can't ignore the XP stone paid cheating, as it totally decimates grouping in the 8-15 range. If you aren't cheating, you can't TR when those stones are on sale or for a week or two afterward unless you are willing to be almost solo for those levels.


    The original post-EU DDO model of selling content, consumables and convenience had integrity, the game no longer does. That is the main reason I didn't buy the expansion and if I get it at all, it will be by TRing enough to amass TP. I simply no longer trust Turbine the way I did prior to the paid cheating epidemic.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  15. #95
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    On your 'channels' point, I agree. I don't really need DDOracle stats to know that activity during my normal play times is down.

    On your Final Point, I don't really have a horse in that race. I'm not 'good' enough for most EE content. I'm happy to be able to access EN/EH loot though.

    On your First Point, I'm split. Have you never rolled up a lvl15 character on paper in order to play some new campaign a buddy just bought? Have you never 'fudged' the loot table in order to have a better chance at something cool in said campaign, especially if you had no idea how often or even WHEN you may get to play with that group again? PnP had plenty of ways to 'cheat' that were considered okay under certain conditions. It was always the players' choice which rules they'd follow and which they'd bend or break. You yourself say you're not ok with certain 'cheats' (xp stones and unBtCoE) while being okay with others (xp pots and loot gems). And it's no different here. If you don't like the xp/loot/bindedness 'cheats', feel free not to use them. It may or may not be diluting the game for others, but it should in no way affect your day.

    Points 2 and 3 are bang on.
    I would have no issue with selling catchup packs (gear 'good enough' to get a foothold in at a new level). That's not what's in the store. Things like basic equipment sets with low-end stats that cover all of the essentials (e.g. a +5 flaming burst weapon at level 12, or a Heavy Fortification ring at 10).

    Instead we get top-end power items and store-only bugfixes almost exclusively. Skill tomes, +4 tomes, fate tomes, store-only solutions to the failures of the implementation of EDs (you want to train Magister on your Cleric? Guess what, you need to train Shadowdancer to 4 first).

    Exploiting raid timers was declared cheating and a bannable offense for the majority of DDO's lifetime, now this cheating is sanctioned and honest players suffer (at least in CITW) due to lower drop rates that were designed around the paid cheating. Etc etc.

    You also can't ignore the XP stone paid cheating, as it totally decimates grouping in the 8-15 range. If you aren't cheating, you can't TR when those stones are on sale or for a week or two afterward unless you are willing to be almost solo for those levels.


    The original post-EU DDO model of selling content, consumables and convenience had integrity, the game no longer does. That is the main reason I didn't buy the expansion and if I get it at all, it will be by TRing enough to amass TP. I simply no longer trust Turbine the way I did prior to the paid cheating epidemic.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  16. #96
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    You also can't ignore the XP stone paid cheating, as it totally decimates grouping in the 8-15 range. If you aren't cheating, you can't TR when those stones are on sale or for a week or two afterward unless you are willing to be almost solo for those levels.
    Absolute nonsense. What, do people ONLY level with Otto's boxes? This is absolutely not true.

    This much hyperbole means everything you post should be disregarded as that of a bitter old grump who wants the kids to get off his lawn. The game hasn't missed you.
    Last edited by Teh_Troll; 08-11-2013 at 11:14 PM.

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