As far as "entire development" youre mistaken. Try less than half its life.
Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.
The longest I actively played a computer game for was about five years. That was Baldur's Gate II Shadows of Amn, the Throne of Bhaal expansion extended it's longevity a couple more years after I had worn the game out. I also played a MUD (precursor to MMOs) for over seven years. Speaking of Tsunami you can still play it now but there are barely a handful of people there, maybe 6 or so active players where there were once 50-100 (which was quite a lot in the early 1990's). It's natural for games to peter out, I don't see it as a fault of the developers in any way.
Rather than be critical it's best to take a break if you are feeling jaded. I do that with my games at home, I haven't played Knights of the Old Republic for over two years but I cast my beady eye over it today with renewed interest in kicking some Sith butt again.
Turbine only has the right to create content and further develop Dungeons and Dragons Online so long as Turbine does so within the bounds of its contract with Wizards of the Coast.
Not sure how I'm misrepresenting you, I am sure I disagree with most of what you've been writing and I'm not interested in going round and round about it, so I'll squelch you rather than do that.
I also play on Thelanis next to Khyber the most populated server, and I have the same feeling about the LFM panel. Admittedly I start playing right after prime time EST... but for example 10PM on a friday night, 2 highlighted LFM's in my range, 20 total LFM's half of them 1 man and 3 or 4 of those "bugged" LFM's where the person logged out with it up... That's not a healthy game. At 20-ish LFM's there are huge gapping holes with NOTHING to do. Even 30-ish there are level ranges with nothing for long stretches of time (that's roughly what I was seeing back during the "whats the excuse for no players" thread.). I surmise that 12k-10k logins seems to be right at the floor minimum to have a pug scene at all. Under the current overly restrictive and poorly working LFM system. I can't imagine what the pug scene is going to look like when everyone is a little more spread out with 28 levels, and the player base drops again after this upcoming spike from the Expansion pack.
The last chart shows a 17K to 13K change. Is the sky still falling?
It's clear you don't speak for the player base, or even really grasp what they want or need overall, yet you try to act like you do, that is why companies don't bother to listen to customers, especially gamers.
Anyone with an iota of any grasp of what was going on around them would know that it's nothing turbine has done at this point, there have been a slew of top tier games like GW2, SWG, NW, chipping away at DDO's numbers, and most of the motives that players have for leaving is not what DDO is doing today, or this expansion, but deeply rooted motives of what DDo has been doing over the course of the last few years.
And Yes.. It is very much "They are Gods and we are Mortals" as far as what happens with this game, you thought your choices were more then "Leave or Stay" as far as your impact on this game goes, then you thought VERY wrong. If they listen to any of us, it is because they chose to, because they wanted to, not because they had to.
Every idea that you think we changed, they only changed things because they wanted to make us happy, not because we twisted their arm.
Okay thread related news, Mr Rowan actually PM'ed me and related the brief but informative news that (direct quote):
"Primarily we're looking to have more updates. Hope that answers. "
This is interesting in that he didn't try to spin anything, and that at least we know they are aware of the problem and are tying to do something about it. The question is is this something we're going to see more evidence of (more updates) or that they are already maxed out on and are just hoping the trends change?
This is like saying "When I had pneumonia the first time I had a 17% chance to live but I recovered, the second time I had a 15% chance and then recovered, so now the third time I'm only down to 13%... so things are looking up. LOL
In the simplest terms we can see 17k turn into 30k slowly peter out to 15k (pre eGH) jump to 20k (eGH) and slowly peter out to 12k with barely a bump from the shadowfell pre quest updates and expansion pre orders.
Obviously in a couple weeks we will see another bump, that should be bigger than eGH was, but probably wont get very close to MOTU's 30k activity... It will then drop off just like all the other months after updates... and we'll see where it settles to before the next update.
Who knows maybe they'll fix some LFM issues (at least figure out a way to make Elite BB a 4 level range, and teleport people to quests) before then and the PUG scene will be healtheir because of lowering the Resistance (friction) level.
The steady decline from Post MOTU numbers is seriously concerning I would hope it took about two months to hit pre-expansion numbers and has been in steady decline since then. Bleeding out about 8k daily logins in about 8 months is kind of frightening should that trend continue.
We would be looking at servers having Wayfinder numbers in about a year. Now I don't think that is going to happen but the trend is not good, not good at all. Granted one would hope that the expansion results in an upward tick, and I don't doubt it will I expect that to be FAR smaller (it's not the same kind of expansion). Now whether it's long lasting trend or shot in the dark entirely rests on how the Enhancement Pass and Epic TR is received.
The sad fact is that the "expansion" has almost nothing to do with content and it really all about the enhancement and TR changes. Right now I would say that receptions is luke warm.
Is it realistic to expect an old game to maintain or grow its numbers in tne face of newer and more varied competition? Two hugely popular games rolled out last year. Another DnD competitor went on line this year. Ascribing all the attrition to Turbine's "failures" is unrealistic.
In light of the competition, I hardly think 25% fewer log ins is "MASSIVE ATTRITION!!!" (if we are going to bother using that site's data).
Last edited by Postumus; 08-09-2013 at 10:45 PM.
Maybe that's a useful data point in some other conversation (like maybe what's the worst case scenario) but we're clearly trying to talk about "when its healthy to when its not".
I hope Mr. Rowan can get updates out faster and help slow down the attrition. but I would feel a lot better if he was willing to look at adding some design elements that can keep people entertained and playing for longer between them. Even something as simple as puffing old end game on a regular basis to keep it relivant and give people something to do with their developed characters.
WoW and therefore it's clones are exactly what they were trying to get away from when they landed on DDO. They played the game because it was different. The last year has moved the game to be more and more and more WoW like and continually decreased the difficulty.
My playtime is probably 1/10th of what it used to be and I am not playing other MMO's either. They are playing games like Civ 5, CoD, Skyrim or doing something else entirely with their time. Some are waiting on the enhancement pass to see if they come back but of those few are hopeful.
From where I am sitting I would have to say that ascribing all the attrition to Turbines "competitors" is unrealistic.
Case in point, when I took a break from DDO, I met quite a few people I recognize form these forums on other game forums, and, my entire guild moved on to other games for a while, some of us came back (obviously).
So, yes, major games coming out will cause some attrition to DDO, which is a dated game, and players burn out, again, nothing Turbine can do about that either.
For all we really know the changes they made to the game may have functioned like a stop gap and retained players that may have been considering leaving, as opposed to having caused more players to leave. In that front, we simply do not have the information.
All we have is info that says log-in activity is down. What conclusions we draw from that are in reality little more then just blind guesses slated with any agenda we feel inclined to push forward.
Last edited by Ungood; 08-10-2013 at 01:29 AM.
I get what you are saying for sure but I don't really have an agenda other than ... make it fun again.
The game is less fun than it used to be, and obviously to more and more people as the logons are decreasing.
I know from those I talked to and looking at myself that it's got nothing to do with the graphics of the game it got nothing to do with the game play but everything to do with the instant gratification everyone gets a "winner" ribbon direction the game is twisting toward.
I don't doubt a lot of people left for the new games but honestly how many of them have been long time DDO members. Few I am willing to bet, most of them who left probably have been around 2 years or less. And that part I think is critical. If you are losing the old guard, and I would agrue the best of it (as in the most helpful) then who is left to show the new players the ropes and help inginite in them the love and enjoyment in the game.
There aren't many for sure and walking down that road leads you to trying to provide just enough instant gratification/win to keep ahead of the new players desire to keep them here. And I am quite sure Turbine's data shows that the longer people play the more likely they are to spend money on the game and the more they are likely to spend. I am also willing to bet that their data is showing that these same people have been spending less and less lately and that is why you see Otto's or Bigby's boxes on sale every 2-3 weeks.
I bet if I really thought about it / measured it I probably spend more time on the forums now than I do in game and that, at least to me, shouts volumes.
The game is going to be less fun to me. I mean why the hell would I pay for a new xpack when they take my main class, that I have been playing since I started DDO, and nerf the hell out of it so it becomes truly a splash only or be gimp?
Originally Posted by CordovanOriginally Posted by Jendrak
17th of August the day DDO players loses half of it's devoted players (the half that is left) :P
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- Given the history of Updates and Expansions getting smaller and smaller (fewer quests, raids, etc) is he banking on the fact that just using the term "Update" or "Expansion" more often will drive more players to log in even though in reality we are getting less and less content?
- Do they actually want to strive for more content and break the current cycle of downsizing?
- If option 2 is indeed their goal, how do they plan on achieving that while also providing (what I call) the illusion of polish and as bug free as possible?
Obviously it would be extremely naive to expect any sort of actual response to that. I'd be surprised if we get some sort of canned response.
I sent him some suggestions for some issues right after he introduced himself and he got back to me "appreciate the suggestions". Granted it was 2 months later and seemed more of a thanks but no thanks. But to be fair, I am kinda the person who would rather have no response than a copy/pasted one that is seemingly hollow. "We appreciate and welcome feedback" is morphing into something similar to how Soon(tm) is in poor taste. I'd much rather have the "Ugly Truth" than some twisted spin on things.
PS, I realize many of you won't agree with what how I feel on the subject and that's ok. The good things about feelings is there is not right or wrong. But to those Turbine cheerleaders: please don't blast me in hopes to convince me otherwise. Only a visible and apparent policy change from Turbine has any hope of achieving that.
Last edited by Drwaz99; 08-10-2013 at 12:53 PM.
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