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  1. #21
    Community Member enochiancub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    There is a lot wrong with Zygna, to believe otherwise is nonsense.
    No doubt, but as a representative of Turbine, I don't think it'd be a good idea for Cordo to say as much.

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  2. #22
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enochiancub View Post
    No doubt, but as a representative of Turbine, I don't think it'd be a good idea for Cordo to say as much.
    I'm surprised he entered the topic tbh.

  3. #23
    Community Member MalkavianX's Avatar
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    I'm actually surprised that people are surprised by this. Ever play SWTOR? Their cartel packs that you buy from the artel market are all completely random. You want that cool repulsor chair speeder? You might get it when you buy the pack it's in. To me it's not that big a deal, if I want a specifir speeder I'll just buy it in their version of the ah. Same thing appleies here. Eventually people will get multiples of even the super rares and they will trade them. If you don't want to risk the randomness of the box, then wait for it to come out on the ah.

    Quote Originally Posted by grodon9999 View Post
    This game has been such an absurd grind that I’d rather stick my junk in a beehive than make another toon.
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    An expansion . .. with a set of packs for each plane to come out every month or two . . . it'll be like crack to Whitney Houston.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    I'm surprised he entered the topic tbh.
    Considering what he responded to, I am not.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astarii View Post
    When doing the random mystery box, its not an equal chance of getting one pet vs the next, its not a 16.6% chance for each they have there own rarity. So, trading is not an option because the other collectors want the same non-attainable one as well. As far as getting buying exactly what you want, I would love that option if it was available, but if they don't make it available you really don't have a choice except to feed the AH with junk the other collectors don't want.

    I just can easily see this method happening to set items with armor/weapons/trinkets etc. that you might want to achieve...err... collect/use/wear
    Where is the data on probability for a given pet?
    Last edited by Tscheuss; 08-03-2013 at 12:44 AM. Reason: spelling
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  6. #26
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    I think the best way to offer a random product like this would be to make all of the possible items available for a fixed TP cost and then charge a discounted price for the random box for those who wish to go that route and try their luck.

    If they really want to introduce a few rare pets that can't simply be purchased by everyone right now, it could be stated that the rare ones will be available for separate individual purchase at a later date (in a limited release).

    In general, if you sell a randomly-selected product it only seems fair to charge a lower price for it, and to make the individual products also available (at normal prices).

    Just my 2pp.

  7. #27
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    Cool Thanks

    This thread let me know I may want to log in to game and check AH.
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  8. #28
    Hero AZgreentea's Avatar
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    I'm confused as to what you expected, OP. You purchased a (non essential) item from the store that stated it was random, and you were surprised when you did not get all six after several tries? Its random, as in not guaranteed. If you buy the gold roll from the daily bonus, you are not guaranteed to roll a 100 no matter how many attempts you make. Why would you expect the random box of pets work differently?
    The problem is never how to get new, innovative thoughts into your mind, but how to get old ones out. Every mind is a building filled with archaic furniture. Clean out a corner of your mind and creativity will instantly fill it.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZgreentea View Post
    I'm confused as to what you expected, OP. You purchased a (non essential) item from the store that stated it was random, and you were surprised when you did not get all six after several tries? Its random, as in not guaranteed. If you buy the gold roll from the daily bonus, you are not guaranteed to roll a 100 no matter how many attempts you make. Why would you expect the random box of pets work differently?
    I don't think he was surprised. He was upset. But by your own admission you are confused, so I can see where you might have missed that.

  10. #30
    The Front Side Gratch's Avatar
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    Aren't these certificates unbound? Can't you trade them via /trades, forums, or even AH in order to collect them all.

    As a once shareholder of Zynga and friend of someone who worked until recent layoffs at Zynga, their original execs are scum of the earth. They did a drumbeat promising high revenues before and after IPO, sold their executive reserved shares at inflated prices and then announced actual income and the stock dropped 80% of its value. There is an ongoing suit against them for their bogus post IPO upward information. I would hope Turbine wouldn't pull in these losers. I believe Pincus is still chairman at Zynga though no longer CEO.
    Last edited by Gratch; 08-03-2013 at 01:46 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    DO NOT DO THIS. We are investigating.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astarii View Post
    What a horrible idea, and what a way to get rid of your customers turbine!

    Listen up everyone, if this continues this will be the model for the future for this game. i'm sure we will see in the future for both pet & ITEMS alike...*sigh*

    I can't tell you how much this "Mystery Basket" upsets me. now, i'm going to talk a little about pets & the "Mystery Box" because I'm an individual that collects the pet companions. As a collector I have yet to get all 6 even with spending over 4k TP. Now, you why does this concern you? Because this is just the beginning, unless turbine stops this nonsense now.

    What they have done with the "Mystery Box" is provide 1 of 6 random items(pets), and with different rarities at the same cost as having you choose what you want or pay more for a purchased bundle. Now, to also show some of the past prices i want to look at pet pricing... for example cheapest pet is 195 TP, the most (except special ones part of expansions etc.) is the beholderlings at 495 TP, the nice "Mystery Box" is 395. Its fine if you only want 1 of the 6, but if your a collector which many people are it causes a problem. Now, think of this like your equipment (which more and more are becoming BTC). If you wanted a particular item/pet not a common one, you'll be buying items to put up on the AH or shard exchange because there is no use having multiples of this pet/item. This actually becomes a huge money sink with no guarantees for anyone that wants a set.

    So far i'm only understanding Turbines logic as "Well, just by it from the AH"... the thing is, there not all the same chances for getting them so you can expect the rare ones not to be there. Yet alone, someone has to buy it do you really think the Rare ones will ever be on the AH? if you don't believe me have fun with this new pet mystery box they have. So here is a way to support people that don't want to drop a dime on the game so you can spend your money for items to put on the AH because you can't use them. Not like you really have a choice to buy what you really wanted anyways.

    I worry that turbine will not respond favorably to the user base that is actually spending money on the game but rather to expect them to justify it and tell us that this is what everyone wants. How about this for a thought, just increase the flat fee for NEW VIPs and stop trying to soak us for more money with your different schemes.
    Then live without the completely unnecessary cosmetic pet?

    Posting these sky-is-falling threads is just alarmist and serves no real purpose. Don't buy them, encourage others not to. If they don't sell well, Turbine will take another direction.

    Personally I agree, but only because computers can't randomize reliably to save their lives. Ergo, relying on a computer to give a reasonably 'fair' randomness when money is involved is, to me, a bit of a no-no, especially given hos prevalent it is in some less-savory style Korean MMOs as a money-grab. I think a random box would be acceptable at a discount, i.e. you can save a few bucks and see what you get, or just shell out for the specific as the normal price.

    But seriously, don't jump in here like your head is on fire and your computer is going to explode and life as we know it will end - be calm, be reasonable, don't be alarmist, you just look ridiculous.

  12. #32
    The Hatchery Urist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gratch View Post
    I would hope Turbine wouldn't pull in these losers.
    IIRC, the former Zynga employees whom Turbine hired were infrastructure/IT people. Say what you want about the management, but Zynga certainly have (or had - hah!) experience with high-traffic, high-uptime, internet services (aka games).

    Quote Originally Posted by losian2 View Post
    computers can't randomize reliably to save their lives.
    They can when coupled with dedicated randomisation hardware. FWIW, some of the upcoming Intel chips include dedicated randomisation hardware, using quantum/thermal noise IIRC.

    But I suspect that wouldn't help Turbine anyway, since it's fairly easy to accidentally create an algorithm which returns non-random output for even a truly random input. And Turbine have past form for this.

    When trying to unlock a chest last night, ten times in a row I rolled a 10. Sure, that could happen if it were completely random, but such reports seem to be so common just on the forums I'm skeptical that Turbine don't have a fundamental bug (or perhaps a secret feature?) in their randomness code. I don't even look at the rolls, usually, so I don't know how many other times things like that have happened to me.

    There are tools out there which can test the randomness of a given dataset. Perhaps one of our OCD stats friends can feed some of their logs into such tools, and see what it says. Probably not enough data for a result with a high level of confidence though, TBH.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    I normally wouldn't waste my time responding to such nonsense, but I felt it was important to set the record straight: This is utterly and completely not true. Besides the fact that the executives at Turbine have been here for quite some time, no one from the company you mention is in a position that would set revenue policy as is inferred in your post. Not that there's anything wrong with the company you mention, just saying that your statement is utterly false.
    Didn't you hire a big shot from Zynga to take a lead in DDO (or was it Turbine) marketing, maybe a year ago? I seem to recall in the press release something about him being hired to improve the "Monitazation" of the game. I'm sure that's what is being referred to. Or did he get fired already?

    Also its funny you were afraid to type the name of the company.

  14. #34
    Community Member MartinusWyllt's Avatar
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    I would pay TP for a "hide companions" trinket...rendering them all invisible (and inaudible) to me, that would be nice.

  15. #35
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    You know, we all love the game and want it to thrive, so we can can continue to play. It takes money. Turbine has to find a way to increase revenue to keep the doors open.

    This little cash grab is much preferable to some of the (dare I say it) P2W items that have been released of late.

    If they are going to sell store only items that are unobtainable in game, then this is a good way to go. It in no way impacts game play. It's just fluff, but it's fun fluff. I love my pets

    I would also like to know what all six pets are... I think it's 5 flying kitties and a pseudo-dragon, but I'm not sure. Anyone know?

  16. #36
    Community Member Fenricus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nazgul748 View Post
    You know, we all love the game and want it to thrive, so we can can continue to play. It takes money. Turbine has to find a way to increase revenue to keep the doors open.

    This little cash grab is much preferable to some of the (dare I say it) P2W items that have been released of late.

    If they are going to sell store only items that are unobtainable in game, then this is a good way to go. It in no way impacts game play. It's just fluff, but it's fun fluff. I love my pets

    I would also like to know what all six pets are... I think it's 5 flying kitties and a pseudo-dragon, but I'm not sure. Anyone know?
    It is indeed 5 tressyms and a Pseudodragon.
    Tressyms are:
    Desert Tressym
    Eveningstar Tressym
    Gray Tabby Tressym
    Savanna Tressym
    Tuxedo Tressym

    No clue whatsoever what the pseudodragon is like. Not even sure anyone has found one yet.

  17. #37
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    I'll admit that I bought one of these boxes. I really had no interest myself, but my wife was online playing last night and noted how cute the new cats were. She happens to really like the pets so I bought a box fully expecting to get one of the random cats that I could just give to her. If it had been a dragon, I probably would have kept it to sell and bought another box for a cat to give to her. In this situation, it's win/win for me.

    Now this is not likely to be the case for every person, especially someone that is really looking for the dragon. If I were a pet collector I'd find it very frustrating as well. I did a quick check of the AH last night and saw countless cats of various colors but not a single one of the new dragons (the cats will likely drop below 300k soon and maybe even less than that so they aren't that troublesome to get). The dragons will be so rare that trading for one will be pretty much impossible unless you want to part with some EE goodies or find someone that has no idea of the value. I'm actually wondering if the dragon even exists. Screenshot anyone? The rage from the buyers if they found out that there was 0% chance of finding a dragon would be crazy.

    Since the topic of Zynga was brought up, I'll mention that there is a massive negative connotation to the name. It's not something that you want associated with your company in any way whatsoever. They do have some great potential games, but their money making methods are borderline criminal in some cases. Preying on gambling instincts, misclicks and children that don't know what they're clicking on. If you hired anyone from Zynga, you would certainly not want your customers knowing about it, let alone announcing it like it's a good thing. Remember that many DDO players are of an older gaming generation. We aren't 10 year olds with cell phones clicking away while Mom/Dad pay the bill. Zynga tactics are very offensive to older mature gamers that grew up on consoles and PC games where microtransactions weren't even a concept at the time.
    Last edited by redspecter23; 08-03-2013 at 10:39 AM.
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  18. #38
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    Thanks for the heads up. I will be polishing my tinfoil hat and will dust out my keyboard in preparation for the P2W threads.
    I hope so, I need more drama than just pets.
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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by nazgul748 View Post
    You know, we all love the game and want it to thrive, so we can can continue to play. It takes money. Turbine has to find a way to increase revenue to keep the doors open.

    This little cash grab is much preferable to some of the (dare I say it) P2W items that have been released of late.

    If they are going to sell store only items that are unobtainable in game, then this is a good way to go. It in no way impacts game play. It's just fluff, but it's fun fluff. I love my pets

    I would also like to know what all six pets are... I think it's 5 flying kitties and a pseudo-dragon, but I'm not sure. Anyone know?
    It does affect the perception of economic value of said game and that affects consumer buying habits.

    For example, I deal in "designer toys" which have a strong random box economy based on what we call "blind box" toys. Not dissimilar from the economics of sports cards of old (I'll exclude game cards because they are actually used for something other than looking at). The key difference is a designer toy company actually has to make said toys before any can be blind boxed and sold, and their distribution amongst cases of products is controlled at the factory. So for a figure with 1/100, there is a pretty implicit guarrantee that out of four cases of 25 figures, you'll find at least 1. You're also guarranteed to get all the common figures within a single case based on that same distribution poilcy. The companies don't publish the total number of figures produced, for obvious reasons, but they do control distribution so that the total number of good types in circulation before loss/destruction match their stated odds.

    The fundamental economic flaw with digitally generated random goods is you're never guarranteed a good of a specific type will ever be generated. You could buy a thousand digital boxes and still not get the low odds good if the algorithm is random, and by the same token, if it's not truly random (they're seeding the algorithm) then you have to question what their seeding strategy is designed to do since it's undeclared. It's so vastly easier to seed an unseen digital algorithm to manipulate customer behavior (i.e. create a euphoric high for first-time customers who will chase that high nearly forever), I'd be suprised if it's not done as a rule.

    But, I never gambled on digital terminals ever. If the true odds are completely unknown, odds are you're the mark.

  20. #40
    Community Manager Cordovan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citzen_Gkar View Post
    Didn't you hire a big shot from Zynga to take a lead in DDO (or was it Turbine) marketing, maybe a year ago? I seem to recall in the press release something about him being hired to improve the "Monitazation" of the game. I'm sure that's what is being referred to. Or did he get fired already?

    Also its funny you were afraid to type the name of the company.
    Sorry, but you are incorrect. This did not happen. I don't know where this strange bit of misinformation got started, but it simply isn't true.
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