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  1. #1
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    Default how do you farm for orthon metal scraps

    or otherwise titled, how do you score decently in Short Cuts solo?

    I am trying to accumulate Orthon Metal Scraps to create a couple of House C items and am having a horrible time trying to get the Orthon scraps.

    so far it's proving to be more time efficient to run Time is Money and convert the Magma Shards to Scraps than it is trying to get the scraps themselves in Short Cuts. though I would need to switch to Colossal Crystals for the epic version. learned the hard way that the item needed for epic resource swap changes from magma shards to scorpions

    oh well, at least I have a bunch of epic magma shards to turn in for fragments or tokens

    my main farming character is a level 20 WF Sorc with mainly acid spells. I usually try to activate the 4 small extractors as quickly as possible, then circle around killing off attackers until I get enough mined to create cannons in front of at least two extractors. that, hopefully, lets me focus on protecting 2 myself and let the cannons help protect the other two

    once I get enough dragon shards and assuming there is enough time left for it to be a positive ROI, I start upgrading the extractors to level 2.

    I usually leave the large extractors alone, takes too long to kill off the defending boss and protect them from attackers.

    suggestions on how to improve on the above? because right now, I fail more often than I succeed and even then, it's just barely past the minimum shard count. so lucky to get more than a hundred metal scraps.

    can do 5 or 8 minute time is money runs with a higher success rate and more ingredients. even at the 2:1 swap rate, it seems to be easier to get the metal scraps this way. but that gets more expensive when I move into the epic range with having to pay token fragments as well.

    so trying to practice up on heroic levels first to see if I can harvest metal scraps and not have to convert into them.

    many thanks for any suggestions folks can send my way

  2. #2
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    My strategy for all extractor challenges are more or less the same. Big hint: Don't call hirelings. A single hireling will make the life of your turrets much harder because more mobs will spawn per wave. Took me some tries to notice that turret solo is better to defend than turret + hireling.

    First, I start going south and desecrating the kobold idol here. Buff on the move. If the idol + kobolds give you less than 4 mechanical parts, restart.

    Then I run to Extractor 2 and activate it. I do not fight the mobs around it (unless it is only one). I fully expect this extractor to be killed when I finish the full circle.

    Make your way to Extractor 3. Kill mobs here after activating it. If you have wings, wing over the drop to NW to get the kobold idol over the large extractor. It is worth it, and you don't have to return here anymore.

    Go to Extractor 4. Buy a turret. Place the turret. Activate extractor. Kill mobs around. Usually, when I finish here, extractor 2 is destroyed or almost destroyed. Use Dimension door back to the ship.

    Go to extractor 1. Activate, clear, place turret. Go to extractor 2. Ditto.

    Go to extractor 3. Place a turret on the high hill to the east. There is a position there that rarely an archer can hit the extractor without being hit. Placing the turret on the low grounds make more blind spots.

    Now go for the three idols between extractor 3 and 1 until you get ~40 parts. Then make your way upgrading all small extractors to level 2. Don't upgrade the turrets.

    Choose one large extractor that you will try to defend (The one on the opposite side of extractor 1 is the hardest to defend because of hills). Kill the red-named boss around it, and then place your 5th turret. Now comes the tricky part.

    If you attain your goal, and have more than 2 minutes left on the clock, activate the large. Protect it at al costs. Ignore the small ones. One tier 1 large active give you more shards/second than three small upgraded.

    The first upgrade will place you at the same point you would be if you not upgrade at 2:40. So, if you have less time than this when you get 400 shards, don't upgrade. The second upgrade requires 3:20 to return the investment. Learn those numbers. You need to know them by heart.

    The main issue with Shot Cuts is that it only give you 10 minutes to work out. So, you have to be quick to get the large to tier 3. Also, once you hit your quota, Orthons start appearing, and while they don't have half the damage of a bearded devil, they are tough. If you can't instakill/banish them quickly, you probably will waste too much time beating them up.

    If you can run it consistently enough to always get a large to at least tier 2, you will get more ingredients per minute than farming Time is Money. And probably will have more fun too, since Time is Money is so repetitive.
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma

    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  3. #3

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    I don't do any larges due to the short time of the challenge. It takes 2+ minutes to "pay off" turning on a large, but that time goes up substantially if you lose smalls. If you lose 2 or 3 smalls you may be looking at 4-5 minutes just for the first tier large to break even.

    My specific strategy is:

    1) Hit totem by #1, turn on #1, kill the 2 mobs
    2) Hit totem between #1 & #2, turn on #2, kill the 2 mobs
    3) Turn on #3, kill the 2 mobs
    4) Hit totem between #3 & #4, turn on 4, hit totem just west of #4, come back and kill two mobs by #4

    From here on out, I do the following for the four smalls in this specific order of actions, choosing the extractor # that makes the most sense each time. (Typically the lowest % one being actively attacked.)

    1) Kill all mobs around the extractor
    2) Buy and place a turret
    3) Upgrade the extractor

    If any upgraded extractors fall I replace them quickly but do not re-upgrade them. Also, keep an eye on your mechanical parts. If you start running low (those turrets are expensive) I find the kobolds between #3 and #4 to be the least out-of-the-way source of more parts.

  4. #4
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    I don't run short cuts at all. The time is too short, and no matter how well i think i've done, the payout is always low. That's even when i can keep all 4 smalls upgraded and running. There simply isn't enough time to start a large and make it worth it.

    Just run the challenge that allows a direct conversion into the scraps. For heroic, i think it's colossal crystals. Once you learn to do this one, you can consistently get more than double the ingredients for it compared to Short Cuts.

    For epic, i think it's time is money that converts directly. I don't run this the way most people do, i will keep buying time as long as it seems profitable. Usually end up with a lower payout than i do on colossal crystals, but still better than running short cuts.

  5. #5
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I don't do any larges due to the short time of the challenge. It takes 2+ minutes to "pay off" turning on a large, but that time goes up substantially if you lose smalls. If you lose 2 or 3 smalls you may be looking at 4-5 minutes just for the first tier large to break even.
    That's why I sacrifice the first one. It lures out the first waves to it (even if you activate the others), and when you go full circle you have enough to clear the mobs quickly with a turret helping. From there on, a single turret can protect an extractor all the way to the end by itself. (Except on unlucky strikes, yadda yadda)

    Activating a large also draw all the agro to the large. Most of the time, the upgraded smalls go undamaged when you activate a large and have a turret on it. The exception is #3. Archers love to snipe it.

    Right now, I can upgrade the large to tier 2 in about 70% of my Short Cuts runs. If you can do it, your run will generate 400+ ingredients per run easily. If you stay with only the small ones, you consistently get ~300. The main problem is when you don't get enough parts on kobold farming. If you can't protect the extractors on the first pass, you take a long time running back to protect it, then lose life that would be useful when you ignore them to focus on the large.
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma

    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  6. #6
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    That's why I sacrifice the first one. It lures out the first waves to it (even if you activate the others), and when you go full circle you have enough to clear the mobs quickly with a turret helping. From there on, a single turret can protect an extractor all the way to the end by itself. (Except on unlucky strikes, yadda yadda)

    Activating a large also draw all the agro to the large. Most of the time, the upgraded smalls go undamaged when you activate a large and have a turret on it. The exception is #3. Archers love to snipe it.

    Right now, I can upgrade the large to tier 2 in about 70% of my Short Cuts runs. If you can do it, your run will generate 400+ ingredients per run easily. If you stay with only the small ones, you consistently get ~300. The main problem is when you don't get enough parts on kobold farming. If you can't protect the extractors on the first pass, you take a long time running back to protect it, then lose life that would be useful when you ignore them to focus on the large.
    You must be doing it with a monk. Any other character, even with 30% striders, simply can't get around to upgrading the small extractors, and then have them generate enough dragonshards to start a large in time. Let alone upgrading the large. I'm convinced this is true even if you removed all the mobs from the challenge.

    I've never hit even 300 ingredients in it. Best is just over 200, with many runs less than that.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    I don't run short cuts at all. The time is too short, and no matter how well i think i've done, the payout is always low. That's even when i can keep all 4 smalls upgraded and running. There simply isn't enough time to start a large and make it worth it.
    Short Cuts is good for at least 200 per run, which is 20/minute. Often it's mid/high 200s.

    The absolute minimum return on conversion challenges to break even is 40/minute, which isn't sustainable. For colossal crystals that would mean you need at least 680 scorpions per run just to break even with the easily-attained 200 from short cuts. 680 colossal crystal runs are simply not sustainable.

    Put it this way: Two quickie heroic short cuts runs @ 200 each gets you 400 scraps in 20 minutes. One single colossal crystal run is a minimum of 17 minutes, up to 21 minutes. Are you really getting 800 scorpions in that run to break even with the 400 scraps you could farm directly in short cuts?

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    You must be doing it with a monk.
    He's using a dedicated challenge farmer monk, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    Right now, I can upgrade the large to tier 2 in about 70% of my Short Cuts runs. If you can do it, your run will generate 400+ ingredients per run easily. If you stay with only the small ones, you consistently get ~300.
    That's more than I remember for just the smalls. I typically end up in the mid-200s, but I generally don't do it much underlevel to make things easier.

    I did once experiment with a guildie (who also had a challenge farmer monk) 2-manning short cuts to test turning on a large, and it was a clear increase in parts; something like mid-300s. However, during those runs he defended the large while I ran around defending the smalls. (Since 2-man we couldn't use turrets.)

  9. #9
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Short Cuts is good for at least 200 per run, which is 20/minute. Often it's mid/high 200s or 300.

    The absolute minimum return on conversion challenges to break even is 40/minute, which isn't sustainable. For colossal crystals that would mean you need at least 680 scorpions per run just to break even with the easily-attained 200 from short cuts. 680 colossal crystal runs are simply not sustainable.

    Put it this way: Two quickie heroic short cuts runs @ 200 each gets you 400 scraps in 20 minutes. One single colossal crystal run is a minimum up 17 minutes, up to 21 minutes. Are you really getting 800 scorpions in that run to break even with the 400 scraps you could farm directly in short cuts?
    I view them as runs, not minutes. Same reason a typical run of time is money lasts 18 minutes for me.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    you can consistently get more than double the ingredients for it compared to Short Cuts.
    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    I view them as runs, not minutes. Same reason a typical run of time is money lasts 18 minutes for me.
    That should be clarified. Your claim sounds like the conversion challenges are worth double the mats. They are not. A 45-minute mansion challenge nets more total parts, but it's not a good idea to run those exclusively and then do 2:1 or 4:1 exchanges on them.

  11. #11
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    That should be clarified. Your claim sounds like the conversion challenges are worth double the mats. They are not. A 45-minute mansion challenge nets more total parts, but it's not a good idea to run those exclusively and then do 2:1 or 4:1 exchanges on them.
    Double the ingredients is the break point for me. Since the conversion rate is 2:1, that means that PER RUN, it's better than running short cuts. I would never suggest doing a double conversion for any mats, but since short cuts is the only challenge that i find not worth running, it's not normally a problem.

    I'm going to make a guess here. You own the challenge pack, right?

    I'm using tokens. Using tokens may change your perspective on the values of payouts versus time.

  12. #12
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    That's more than I remember for just the smalls. I typically end up in the mid-200s, but I generally don't do it much underlevel to make things easier.
    Maybe you are right. The numbers that are more fresh on my mind are from the last weekend with challenge ingredient bonus. mid-200 + 20% can end up averaging 300 per run.
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma

    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    I'm using tokens. Using tokens may change your perspective on the values of payouts versus time.
    It most certainly does. I should have realized.

  14. #14
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    first of all - thank you all for the good feedback and advice, especially Nibel and Ellis for the detailed walk throughs. I will give it another few tries using these ideas.


    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    He's using a dedicated challenge farmer monk, yes.
    this, however, is what is still making me think that running the lava quests is going to work better for me. as I noted in the OP, my main challenge farmer is an earth savant war forge. very tough to kill at or slightly above level and can take out just about anything given time. but not the fastest killer by any means. he has DD to get around quickly in the kobold challenges as well as being able to buff them with haste, etc.

    he doesn't have the travel speed or quick killing power of a dedicated challenge farmer monk. he is much more suited for crystal cove type challenges. however, even hitting slightly above the minimum needed to complete short cuts will pay off better than converting 2:1, especially for epics where you also have to factor in getting the token fragments. so if I can learn to hit the minimum almost every time, it would be worth it.

    thanks again everyone.

  15. #15
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    I basically run it the way Nibel describes. I'll usually only put up only three turrets and will even deconstruct one (usually Small 3 which seems to get attacked the most) on my way to activate Large 2. I'll set up two turrets by Large 2 which has a great kill zone where most of the monsters will traverse down the long, narrow gully and get torn up on their way to the extractor. Sometimes they'll used ranged from the hilltops, but those are easy to dispatch. If you carry haste pots/clickies or have a good ranged attack you can easily pop out from Large 2 to defend Small 4.


    If the turrets are doing well, I'll even run to Large 3 and take out the red name(s) there just for the extra chests and kill more kobolds to rack up the point total. I usually average low to mid 200s per run on my artificer. If you follow Nibel's guide, you don't need a monk, almost anything with haste pots, haste, and expeditious clickies is good enough to get 200 per run. Monks are good, I have a barb/cleric I built for challenges I like a lot, rangers who can twf are good (those water khopeshes sure don't hurt), but like I said, I usually run it on one of my artificers.

    ----addendum---

    I just noticed you use an earth savant. I also have problems in the extractor challenges with wizards and sorcs because of the mana limitations.
    Last edited by Postumus; 08-04-2013 at 05:43 PM.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    I have a barb/cleric I built for challenges I like a lot
    I would love to pick your brain on this build.

    I recently toyed with the idea of a 13/2 sorc/pally bladeforged challenge farmer, the idea being all the WF arcane goodness (reconstruct, haste, DD, knock, etc...) combined with the ability to immediately roll one up already level 15 as an iconic to be ready "out of the box" for challenge farming. Unfortunetly the animated armors in extraplanar are problematic for arcanes, especially in 20 minute long dragon's hoarde runs with no shrines.

    I'd mostly given up, but there is an iconic cleric. A barbarian/cleric might be worthwhile as an instant challenge farmer option. Could you give me the broad strokes? (Level split and feats, essentially.)

  17. #17
    Community Member Uidolon's Avatar
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    if you can kill the lantern archon that gives you a decent boost but the higher lvl challenge you run the harder that gets in my experince.

    your not alone in your trouble with this q ive meet several people who just gave up in this q and converted others into it.

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