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  1. #1
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    Default Dex to hit and damage - its atrap

    I love the idea of making it possible for quite a few builds to use dex for to hit and damage. I think it allows for a lot of flexibility. However, most special attacks (stunning blow, trip etc) work of str. Also feats such as overwhelming critical needs base str of 23 and is considered by most melee as must have with no substitution for dex based warrior.

    Please consider adding for strategies higher of str or dex and something equilavent of overwhelming critical. It is still easier to pump str then dex but for dex you get additional benefit of better ref saves and ac so I suppose it balances out a little...

  2. #2
    2015 DDO Players Council Ironforge_Clan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valakai View Post
    I love the idea of making it possible for quite a few builds to use dex for to hit and damage. I think it allows for a lot of flexibility. However, most special attacks (stunning blow, trip etc) work of str. Also feats such as overwhelming critical needs base str of 23 and is considered by most melee as must have with no substitution for dex based warrior.

    Please consider adding for strategies higher of str or dex and something equilavent of overwhelming critical. It is still easier to pump str then dex but for dex you get additional benefit of better ref saves and ac so I suppose it balances out a little...
    I disagree. If you are building a finesse build with high dexterity you aren't building for tactical strikes...although trip could be argued either way.
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    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironforge_Clan View Post
    I disagree. If you are building a finesse build with high dexterity you aren't building for tactical strikes...although trip could be argued either way.
    Problem is a melee that can't help with cc at all is worthless.

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    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Problem is a melee that can't help with cc at all is worthless.
    Fury of the Wild.

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    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Problem is a melee that can't help with cc at all is worthless.
    I disagree. A melee that can't do damage and look to his/her own survival to the best of his/her ability is worthless. The basic tactical feats (Trip, Sunder and Stunning Blow) are entirely optional. Dex builds have better survivability in the form of additional AC and reflex saves. Of course, most of the official 'melee' classes are strength-based. Except monks and rogues.

  6. #6
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    The classes that would look to Dex for damage (TWF Ranger and Rogues) don't traditionally use tactics. They couldn't get a meaningfully DC before nothing in that regard has changed.

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    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Adrenaline recharges on dervish with that perma haste and perfect twf feats ( + get more double strike on gear ) so fast it's not even funny.
    But still, scream, 23 needed for overwhelm crit, going for dex doesn't make any sense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valakai View Post
    I love the idea of making it possible for quite a few builds to use dex for to hit and damage. I think it allows for a lot of flexibility. However, most special attacks (stunning blow, trip etc) work of str. Also feats such as overwhelming critical needs base str of 23 and is considered by most melee as must have with no substitution for dex based warrior.

    Please consider adding for strategies higher of str or dex and something equilavent of overwhelming critical. It is still easier to pump str then dex but for dex you get additional benefit of better ref saves and ac so I suppose it balances out a little...
    Melee tactics are mostly worthless in epic elites save stunning fist which str doesn't matter in that case.

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    I would have to disagree also...

    Already tested several builds based on Dex/Finesse , also tested my Acrobat build which also uses Dex for q-staves.

    I am very pleased with the results.

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    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    Adrenaline recharges on dervish with that perma haste and perfect twf feats ( + get more double strike on gear ) so fast it's not even funny.
    But still, scream, 23 needed for overwhelm crit, going for dex doesn't make any sense.
    With 100% off-hand damage DEX-build with no OC still does more damage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teh_troll View Post
    with 100% off-hand damage dex-build with no oc still does more damage.
    ftw..

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    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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  13. #13
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    Maybe add some dex based tactical feats....

    Juke to the Right, Fake to the Left
    Cooldown: 15 seconds
    Usage: Active
    Prerequisite: This feat is granted for free to all characters.
    Description
    Your quick dodge maneuver cause attacker to trip over his on feet, rendering it prone.
    The target must be actively attacking and must make a balance check against a DC of 10 + Dexterity modifier + related Enhancements + related item bonuses
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by xberto View Post
    Maybe add some dex based tactical feats....

    Juke to the Right, Fake to the Left
    Cooldown: 15 seconds
    Usage: Active
    Prerequisite: This feat is granted for free to all characters.
    Description
    Your quick dodge maneuver cause attacker to trip over his on feet, rendering it prone.
    The target must be actively attacking and must make a balance check against a DC of 10 + Dexterity modifier + related Enhancements + related item bonuses
    Cool idea. I love the synergy.

  15. #15
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    Adrenaline recharges on dervish with that perma haste and perfect twf feats ( + get more double strike on gear ) so fast it's not even funny.
    But still, scream, 23 needed for overwhelm crit, going for dex doesn't make any sense.
    This is the pertinent information the devs should take from this thread overwhelming critical should be changed to a requirement of str +23 or dex +23.
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  16. #16
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Look, I am a big fan of Dex builds.. but I beleive that Dex shoul dnot be used for damage...

    That is Strength's job.

    If you make Dex do the same kinds of damage as Strength than you make Strength useless.

    Dex already has a huge advantage... the Ref save.

    The vast majority of damaging spells have a Ref save for half damage.


    If you made going Dex and getting the same DPS as going Str... you would give too much benefit to Dex and not enough to Str.

    There should not be a one stat serves all in DDO.

    (they need to give more reasons to beef up non physical stats in DDO too BTW.... like Cha.)
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  17. #17
    The Hatchery Nibor's Avatar
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    Dex builds before the equipment pass (adding slots to gear, making several more named dex-to-damage items) were a trap. There were very few dex-to-damage weapons and you were locked into them. After the equipment pass. they are viable. I'm a huge proponent of a well-built dex based rogue assassin; I love mine on live today. He's got good DPS, good survival, and a fairly decent array of weapons (I keep Rebellion, Epic Midnight Greetings, Epic Envenomed Blade, and Celestia on hand).

    After the enhancement changes, rogue getting dex-to-damage on daggers and kukris improves everything greatly. I don't have the CC melee feats, but I didn't before and don't miss them. Rogue assassin "cc" is assassinate and improved deception.

    I can't speak to rangers on how that impacts them, but I do like the idea that the choice of dex-based is a tradeoff; it should not simply be "you can do everything you could with strength". If you want trip/stunning blow/etc then you need to be Str based. Dex based lets you qualify for the TWF feats without sacrificing build points, as you can dump strength. They play differently, but both styles seem quite viable now. Naturally, you can build a bad version of either type of TWF, there's no fixing that.

  18. #18
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    With 100% off-hand damage DEX-build with no OC still does more damage.
    Tested or just gut-feeling ? I know you get full dex with like 35% double strike but does it make up for loss of OC ?
    Another thing is I can't live without cleaves, only because of that stupid delay after boost/adrenaline.
    Also no Momentum/LW if you want to switch sometimes.

    Might be better for 20 ranger ( don't know yet, I'll play with numbers later ).
    Rogue ? Either 17 with tome or 21 for ISA. Level ups in INT so even dumped STR is prolly higher than DEX.
    Just don't see it for other toons except 20 ranger.
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  19. #19
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    Tested or just gut-feeling ?
    Math.

    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    Just don't see it for other toons except 20 ranger.
    I was talking about a 20 ranger, sorry if that wasn't clear.

  20. #20
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    Look, I am a big fan of Dex builds.. but I beleive that Dex shoul dnot be used for damage...
    The issue isn't that DEX can be used for damage.

    The issue is that the best one-handers currently are finesse weapons.

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