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  1. #1
    Community Member Urjak's Avatar
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    Exclamation Open Letter to Turbine / Warner Brothers: My current thoughts about the game:

    WARNING! Big Wall of Text!

    Dear developers, designers, artists, testers, ... and producers at Turbine and Warner Brothers!

    I planned on writing this letter for quite a long time and finally I found the time to actually write it. So here it is: My opinion on what is currently wrong / should get fixed. I know it is a very long list and I also know that it is impossible to fix / implement all of this soonish ... yet I still feel that these things are important and should be moved up top of the to-do list (right after bug fixing) or at least be discussed - as I won't claim being unfailable ...

    Also one should take into consideration that this list aggregated over the course of years ... so some issues are really long standing, while others are totally new. Also this comes from someone playing DDO for a really long time (I started right before the monk class was introduced in DDO: Stormreach (Europe: Keeper)) and I also have been playing a lot of D&D 3.0 and 3.5 ... so my opinion is of course biased a lot by these experiences. Though that also means I have been experiencing DDO during its ups and downs for a quite long time, and while I took my breaks, I always returned

    So here comes my list of issues. I hope I succeeded in trying to organize it and make it somewhat readable:

    Game Design (macro)

    .)Endgame Content

    What I currently see is that the endgame gets tighter and tighter. There are only very few select raids and quests that are actually worth running. With the expansion I see that worsen even more. What we definitely need is a broader endgame! There need to be more than just a few quests with interesting gear! Just think of the old epics ... all of them were run! That's quite a lot of diversity! .... Compared to now: House of Rusted Blades, Prison of Planes, Tor, FoT, CitW and Shroud ... the rest? now and then ... please give us broader endgame ... give us creative loot again, niche items, whatever ... its just this "lets vastly increase the power level so everyone has to run those few select quests we want our players to run" is in my opinion a dead end. ... I will elaborate further on this in more specific details in other points.

    .) Difficulty and Tactics

    When I think back at when I started playing DDO, the game was tough! Running a quest on elite meant we would die, die horribly and we would run back to resurrection shrines ... heck, we would even hold the instance while the rest of the party would recall, heal up and repair and reenter. We were willing to spend an hour to complete a harbor quest on elite. My level 16 rogue was constantly out of plat because of the high repair costs ... I could go on and on with these examples ... or just round it up: the game was tough. You wanted the favor of an elite run? Then you fought for it. And you HAD to GROUP. I mean on one hand its fun, that now I don't have to wait on groups to fill when I want to play and instead can just solo endgame ... OTOH that turns the game into a single player game ... and we all know that once you played through a single player game a few times you get bored and play something else ...

    What we really need is DDO becoming harder again. There is absolutely no need for this game being able to be zerged on heroic elite and epic hard for just about everyone!
    heroic normal and epic normal should be solo zergable,
    heroic hard should be zergable for a good group,
    epic hard should be zergable for a good group with good gear, max level and maxed destinies,
    heroic elite should only be zergable by overgeared vets with enormous meta-knowledge running in a full balanced group of other such vets
    and finally epic elite should not be zergable at all ... well that last one more or less works ... not entirely sure how that will be with stealth updates and the like ...

    This definitely is not meant to be an "I am so awesome" rant ... much on the contrary! I know that there are far, far better players than me out there. So, if even I manage to zerg through most content on epic hard solo without bothering to use a hire ... this means there is something wrong ... terribly wrong!

    What I would like to see in specific is the need to slow down again. For Turbine this would also be positive! If players need longer for quests to finish them, the players won't get tired so fast and the need for new content is lower, giving developers more time to create that much needed content. At the moment the direction is more like: Every other update we bring out loot that makes all existing loot pointless. Thus players "need" to purchase the new content ... but to make 'em happy we will make the quests short and easy with a super high drop rate, so everyone gets all of his/her gear in two weeks by replaying the same 5 quests over and over again ... well no wonder after those 2 weeks the player gets bored ... new content has to arrive asap ... and this vicious circle spins faster and faster ... there is no way in hell any game company can hold that tempo.

    So slow down a bit ... make quests longer, make completions actual victories. Retain older contents worth ... new content will be bought anyways ... but the player base will shrink when you constantly are bored with running your 101 billionth completion of HoRB (which is prolly the best example)

    TL;DR:
    Make quests harder so we have to use our brain and all of our abilities/clickies/... again to achieve completions and make soloing harder so that we have to run in groups again

    .) House Cannith Crafting

    Many people put a lot of effort in leveling their crafting skill. Now this area of the game is completely neglected and IMO Turbine doesn't see its full potential. Also directed at producers: This system would allow for a huge "cash grab" if utilized correctly! Let us craft all of the new prefixes and suffixes! Give us craftable named items! (like runearms) ... but ... and here comes the catch: make those super powerful enchantments cost special rare ingredients which can only be acquired from certain adventure packs or the DDO-Store ... noone buying "Restless Isles" anymore? Make it drop the key ingredient for "deadly XI"! You will sell to just about everyone!

    And for players this would mean awesome opportunities for customization! Using an unusual weapon? No problem ... just craft one! ... Greensteel / Shroud is still very popular and I dare say that this raid is the single most run and thus successful quest / raid in the whole history of DDO. You know why? Because it lets you craft nearly every weapon in the game and put awesome effects in a lot of different equipment slots. Thus it is highly modular! People love customization! Let us do more crafting!!! (Yes I know the other reasons for its popularity: Awesome quest design, low minimum level on the crafted gear, easiness and of course a certain degree of nostalgia )

    .) Revamping old raids and quests

    A lot of content is currently dead. Old raids? Mostly not interesting enough to warrant running them. Currently: FoT, CitW and Shroud are run regularly. Abbot, VoN6 and ToD seldom. LoB and eChrono rarely. The other raids (Hound, VoD, Titan, Reaver, ADQ2, TS, MA) ... almost never. Quests that don't give tons of xp: never.

    With the introduction of U19 I'd guess this situation will worsen even more. Also all of the existing epics: All that don't give an extraordinary amount of xp: forget them! Especially with the xpack dropping +11 stat items ... who would be so insane as to grind shard+seal+scroll+base item for a mere +6 to +7 item?

    Otoh I think there would be lots of possibilities to revamp these things:
    .) Noone says that the old epic quests have to have EN: CR x, EH: CR x+1, EE: CR x+2 ... Devil Assault has for quite a while a different progression ... why can't other quests too?
    .) After such a revamp that scales old epics up to quest level 30 (on epic elite) there could be additional upgrade options, like upgrade existing stat boni from +6/+7 (epic normal version) to +8/+9 (epic hard upgrade) and finally +10/+11 (epic elite upgrade) or for weapons: base dice and enhancment bonus upgrade and maybe slots and so on ...
    .) Green steel and alchemical weapons actually screem for an update so we can upgrade them to level 28
    .) Same for challenge gear and especially event gear ... wonder why the interest in CC and Mabar is relatively low? Well who needs min lvl 20 gear nowadays?

    That would all be options to broaden endgame with relatively little effort. And we need a broader endgame!

    .) Weapontypes

    People have been asking for scythes, spears and polearms for a really long time. I definitely think its about time we get them! But also spiked chain ought to be available as a base weapon now that Shadar-Kai get special attacks

    with them. Also on the list of missing base weaponry:
    .) Slings (a one handed ranged weapon)
    .) Hand-Crossbows (same)
    .) Punching Dagger (for tha style yo^^)
    .) Sai (monk piercing weapon, 1h)
    .) Siangham and Nun-chakus (monk bludgeoning weapons, 1h)
    .) Whip
    .) Trident
    .) Net (okay, I get why that one is not in-game)
    .) Double-weapons (Urgrosh, doublesword, doubleaxe, double-morningstar)
    .) Flail
    .) Heavy Flail
    .) Throwing Spears
    .) ... probably some more I forgot now

    Also I think that a really cool way to increase distinction between existing weaponry would be to implement the inherent combat feat bonuses some weapons have in pnp. (Like bonuses to trip for example)

    And especially for low base dice weapons like shurikens I think that with increasing dice numbers also the dice size should be increased now and then. Otherwise the gap between low and high base dice weapons grows too big in my opinion.

    .) Grouping and Dungeon Scaling

    As already mentioned in point two. Grouping has very much declined due to difficulty. A huge part in this decline though is also dungeon scaling! In my opinion:
    .) elite should have no scaling at all ... not little, not almost none ... none at all!
    .) hard should have a lot less scaling than now
    .) normal might be fine as is

    .) Power Curve

    This point I also mentioned in several other points, yet I think it should be pointed out as a point of its own too:
    The power curve grows much, much, much too fast! Now we even jump from +8 stat items to +11! In U18 one of the most awesome items were the EE Dream Visors with +5 damage, now we get +11 damage on random loot! O_O

    These are far too huge steps. No wonder old equipment can't stand up to these ... well at least the new named items are garbage, so at least the versatility of the old ones will keep them alive ... though once we get decent named items ... who will care about +7/+8 items when you can get +11 ones?

    Take a deep breath! ... and SLOW DOWN! Then you also don't have the constant pressure of creating new named items for each and every possible build!


    Game Design (micro)

    .) Attack Bonus

    While the change for Attack Bonus works fine when monsters attack players (armor class works fine now), the other way around (player attacks monster) is completely broken now. Apart from the first few levels I now never run into a situation where I don't hit on a 2 ... thus attack bonus boosting items/enhancements/... are completely worthless now ... or in other words:

    Yeah we fixed Armor Class, but now Attack Bonus is broken. My suggestion would be to revert the system ... but ONLY for players attacking monsters! That way one would combine the good sides of both systems. Though of course I don't have any idea on how easy / complicated such a change would be :/

    .) Destinies: Balance, Power and Stacking

    Currently some destinies are simply far more powerful than others. When the best destiny for arcanes comes from the primal sphere (shirardi) and archers are better off using a melee destiny (fury) something tells me there is something wrong. Though this issue has IMO been discussed in countless other threads already, so I will leave it at mentioning the issue without going into further detail.

    Considering their overall power:
    If a destiny matters more than all my enhancements and feats together .. there is something wrong as well ... rest: see above

    Stacking:
    IMO this is not only a destiny problem, but one that is noteable throughout the whole game:
    It is often not clear what stacks with what, not even for a dnd veteran. I will go into more detail in my point transparency.

    .) Effects: DCs vs. %

    Lately there seems to be a trend to give us more and more abilities/effects that have a percentage of when they trigger or even worse: they trigger "sometimes" or "rarely". D&D has always been about control over my character. I want to be able to decide what my character can, and can not do, and how good he can (or can not) do it. A DC gives me a definite number, a percentage feels just weird and finally a "sometimes" is completely unpredictable.

    When those "sometimes"'s were limited to one specific named item (greensteel weapons), that was fine ... they were tested out and then everyone knew what to expect ... this new trend of increasing the number of "maybes" in our builds is IMO bad.

    .) Enhancements, Feats and Skills

    D&D character creation was always about finding a smart way to combine feats. In DDO we additionally have enhancements, which long ago were just that: one could improve certain class abilities. Then came the prestige classes and now it already feels like WoW/Diablo2 or basically just about any other game. Feats are spent on your "must-have-anyways" feats and then you pick your prestige to pick up some strange abilities, which have absolutely nothing to do with their pen and paper counterparts.

    I know that it is too late now to make big changes to the enhancements so I'll just *sigh* and leave them be ... and move to that part that can still be changed:

    Feats and Skills:

    .) Class Synergy Feats
    In pen and paper there were a lot of class synergy feats, were specific class combinations got unique bonuses. For example sorc/monk could use charisma to armor class and sacrifice spell slots for special attacks; scout/ranger

    could auto "sneak attack" their favored enemy and, and, and ... I think there would be a huge potential

    .) Disguise
    With the new focus on stealth ... why not give us disguise as well? It would be kinda cool to dress up as an orc and walk up directly to the boss, challenge him to a duell and then disguise again and walk out .. THAT would really feel like actual dnd ... something that seems to be almost lost nowadays ...

    .) Energy Admixture / Substitution
    Energy Admixture might be OP ... depends on the actual implementation ... but Energy Substitution? This would help balance out the different elements a lot, with only relatively little work!

    .) Epic Spellcasting
    Well ... THIS ONE is a tough one^^. In the current lammania build we get a few offered as feats ... but what about actual epic spellcasting? ... I mean the actual combination of seeds to create your very own spell? True at level 28 one could only cast them 2-3 times or so per day (forgot the exact rules and too lazy to look them up ;p) ... yet still it would feel kinda awesome ... oh and they could require special ingrediences to cast ... which could drop only from certain quests (or the store ofc) ... just spinning some ideas here

    .) Heal, Repair and Spellcraft
    Okay ... back from the creative dream land to hard reality:
    IF these skills increase spell power, their associated attributes have to be adjusted!
    Heal: Wisdom or Charisma
    Repair: Intelligence of Charisma
    Spellcraft: Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma
    Perform can stay as Charisma only IMO

    .) Practiced Spellcaster
    This feat has also been asked for before, lots of times ... the answer was the devs think it was too OP ... well then I was not sure, it might have been actually OP ... nowadays though I am pretty certain that it would not be overpowered, as in most cases maximum caster level and not actual caster level is the limiting factor ... but this feat would help deep splashes to make their spells at least somewhat useable.

    .) Items: Upgradable vs. Fixed Tiers

    In my oppinion the current "tiered" loot (hn, hh, he, en, eh, ee each dropping a different version of named loot), has one inherent major flaw:
    Why should I bother farming out an epic normal or epic hard item, when I know eventually I want the epic elite version anyhow? Either the difference between the diverse tiers is so low that one doesn't bother having the lower tiered one (like the eGH dragon helmets where the difference between eh and ee is only minor) or the difference is so big that one doesn't bother grinding out the lower tiered one and instead desperately goes after the ee version in the first place (like the epic treads of shadow).

    In the Fall of Truth raid and Caught in the Web raid we already saw a much better mechanic:
    Upgradeable loot! Thus one can first grind out the lower tiers and then slowly upgrade, or be awesome enough to grind out the upgraded version in the first place. Please make/change the mechanics so that we can upgrade all epic normal / epic hard loot to epic elite (and heroic normal / hard to heroic elite) in some way. Be it special ingredients or commendations or whatever^^. IMO this would on one hand provide this "intended power curve: first you equip the epic normal then hard then elite mechanic" and on the other hand its not necessary to grind out one and the same item over and over ... once you got the lucky pull, you "just" need to upgrade it ... (or run epic elite in the first place and avoid the grind for upgrade materials)

    .) Must-Have-Feats

    One big problem I see currently is feat selection. Basically there are very little useful feat choices at the moment. Examples:

    If you want to use twohanded weapons: You will take the THF feats (3, soon 4), Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, IC:Slashing and Overwhelming Critical ( = 7 heroic, 2 epic feats)

    If you want to use two weapons: You will take the TWF feats (3, soon 4), Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, IC:Pierce or Slash and Overwhelming Critical ( = 7 heroic, 2 epic feats)

    If you want to use bows: You will take Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, IC: Ranged, Manyshot, Bow Strength, Combat Archery, Doubleshot ( = 7 heroic, 2 epic feats)

    If you want to use repeaters: You will take Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Reload, Improved Precise Shot, IC:Ranged, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Heavy Repeating Crossbow, Combat Archery, Doubleshot ( =7 heroic, 2 epic feats)

    If you want to use throwers: You will take Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, Quick Draw, Shuriken Expertise, IC: Throwing, 10k Stars, Doubleshot ( = 8 heroic, 1 epic feat)

    If you want to cast arcane damage spells: You will take Maximze, Empower, Heighten, Spell Focus: Evocation or Conjuration feat line (3 feats), Past Life: Wizard, Epic Spellpower<choice>, probably: Toughness, Quicken ( = 6-8 heroic, 1 epic, 1 special epic feat)

    If you want to cast arcane DC spells: You will take Maximize, Empower, Heighten, Spell Focus: Necromancy and/or Enchantment feat line(s) (3-6 feats), Past Life Wizard, Spell Penetration Line (3 feats), probably: Toughness, Quicken ( = 8-12 heroic and 2-3 epic feats)
    ...

    Now take into consideration that a DDO character gets:
    1 feat at level 1
    6 heroic feats (every 3rd level)
    3 "normal" epic feats (every 3rd level starting level 21)
    2 "special" epic feats
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Makes for a base 7 heroic, 3 epic, 2 special epic feats.

    Now compare that to the examples above:
    Most of them already require 7 heroic feats and 2 epic ones! That leaves only 1 epic and 2 special epic feats to give your build a special note!
    Of course due to class feats and racial feats it is no as drastic as pictured above, yet the difference is not that big!

    In case some people at Turbine and Warner Bros still care to revive a little of the D&D feeling this game once had:
    Either move more of those must-haves into the enhancement trees, or turn them into auto-upgrades (as in once you purchase twf, it automatically upgrades at certain levels - which would be totally non dnd *sigh*) or give us really tempting alternative feats! We *need* more variation ... feat choices are at the moment really no-brainers

    .) Spells: DC Casting

    This issue has in the meantime been discussed in countless other threads ... just for completeness sake:
    DC-Casting needs to be a viable choice throughout the whole game! I know this one is very difficult to balance. If it works too well we have epic wizard solo wailing whole dungeons and groups waiting hours for an epic enchanter because else quests are not possible to complete. Make it work too little, noone bothers and plays something else entirely. Yet if wizards change their style from DC casting to Shirardi random-proc "nuking", because it works a lot better - something is wrong. Also (and this problem is an old one) Spell Penetration capabilities are very, very much dependent on past lives. A single play styles viability should not be limited to people who have 6+ past lives (3xwiz + 3xfvs + whatever)

    .) Enchantment Nomenclature

    I know that design wise it makes things easier to just make Deadly XI or Fire Lore IV items. Yet this also makes those items loose some of their magical touch. I mean just think of Elminster giving you a sword as reward saying, "great hero, many songs will be sung and many tales will be told about this day of thy epic victory over this vile Netheril Archwizard! Thy once again saved Cormyr and thus I give thy this Axiomatic VII Longsword of Smiting IX" ... completely destroys the feeling ... it should by this Epic Axiomatic Longsword of Greater Smiting or something along those lines .. though that might just be a personal thingy.

    Content

    .) Explorer Areas

    Personally, I very much like explorer areas - especially the Underdark ... yet what is often missing, is some reason beyond exploring, to run these ... please give us more explorer areas and fill them with loot, unique encounters, and and and^^ ... For example in the Sands of Menechtarun, there is a lot of unique loot that drops from rare encounters. Please consider adding something similar to the Underdark, Sschindylryn, Wheelon, Stormhorns, Demon Web and Kings Forest! ... Don't treat these areas as just some "way to get to the quests" give us reasons to enjoy this content more than once! .... It is already there ... the only thing missing is someone filling all those chests with useful goodies

    .) User Created Content

    Well that's one of the more difficult points. It has been discussed in length, yet I hereby necro this issue again. User created content has the huge benefit, that it relieves the developers a little from the pressure of releasing new content quickly, as players themselves deliver alternatives to play around. Well lets point out pros and cons and then my suggestion:

    Pros:
    +) A lot more content available! => Less boredom
    +) Players can be creative and can share their ideas
    +) Players get the feeling they can actively contribute to the game and thus feel important

    Cons:
    -) There is a huge potential of abuse like short quests giving lots of xp and loot, overpowered loot and so on
    -) There is also a potential of griefing (creating quests just to kill others or even to steal equipment, ...)
    -) There is the potential of game breaking bugs in such quests. Just think of the quests the devs create ...
    -) There are additional monetary and personal resources needed to administrate these quests
    -) There needs to be a "somewhat" easy to use editor, which in turn needs dev-time to create

    Suggestion:
    .) For the editor: give us tiles that we can just put together as we like. A whole 3D-program would definitely be overkill for most players
    ..) Advantage: No stuck spots or the like as long as the tiles themselves work
    ..) Disadvantage: Someone needs to create all those tiles
    .) No loot, no xp ...
    ..) Advantage: No possible exploits
    ..) Disadvantage: Less motivation for players to create and run user created content
    ..) Alternative: Automated loot and xp. An algorithm calculates loot level and xp based on CR, mobs, bosses and amount of chests as well as size
    .) Rating System: Let players rate a dungeon after each completion
    ..) Top Rated dungeons might then get actual named loot (in cooperation with a dev who supervises this to avoid exploitation)

    All in all I know that this is a difficult theme and I have no illusions in this being actually implemented somewhen soon. Yet if you think of other games (the most popular in this area is probably Minecraft), this freedom to share user created content can attract a lot of potential players ...

    Transparency:

    This one is probably one of the biggest gripes I currently have with DDO. Why do I have to do extensive testing and/or research in order to determine if effect xyz stacks with a, actually affects b or is of type c or d .... let me elaborate:

    .) Attack Speed

    Currently we have:
    .) Twohanded weapons[fast]
    .) Twohanded weapons[slow]
    .) Twoweapon fighting
    .) Sword and board
    .) Bow
    .) Crossbow
    .) Repeater
    .) Thrower
    .) Unarmed[monk]
    .) Unarmed[non-monk]

    and
    .) Doublestrike[main-hand]
    .) Offhand-proc-chance
    .) Doublestrike[offhand]
    .) Doubleshot[ranged and throwing]
    .) Doubleshot[repeater]

    All of these are different and are differently affected by attack speed buffs! To make matters worse:
    Attack animation, actual attacks, used ammunition and attack sound do not match (as of live - not tested on lamma atm sorry, these tests take a lot of time) - at least they don't for shuriken - and I'm not talking about actual lag spikes or the like ... just try it out

    I spent dozens of days trying to figure out a formula for thrower attack speed ... but I gave up lol ... for those interested: thrower speed converges towards somewhere 84-85 throws per minute. The use of the word converges says it already: it is completely non-linear (the more speed bonuses you have the less effect you get). Also combining different sources of speed bonuses yield different results (like action boost bonus and enhancement bonus, ...)

    I am having no illusions about receiving the actual formula, but at least let us view all of these values as a mouse over tool-tip in our character sheets. Currently only Doublestrike and "melee-attackspeed bonus" and "ranged-attackspeed bonus" are displayed ... which considering the above ... is more or less worthless ...

    Also please somehow unify the bonuses so that it is either clear which of the above are affected by how much respectively or make it so that different sources yield the same results.

    .) Communication and Marketing

    Well this one IS a lot better than it was years ago. Yet there are still things that bother me, like selling an expansion without saying what will be in it ;p As a general rule of thumb: If you want to sell something: State exactly what will be in it, and then deliver exactly that ... again it is now a lot better than some years ago, and I appreciate that a lot, yet there is still a lot of potential here.

    .) Effects

    This is probably the bigest one^^. There are simply so many unnamed effects that don't stack, named effects that stack (even though they shouldn't). Unclear descriptions and so on. Please, please, please: Have someone go over every single effect description. Let him/her check whether this effect stacks and what type it is and update the description accordingly. This is REALLY important! Whether its a feat/skill/enhancement/item or spell: Equally typed bonuses (except circumstance and untyped bonuses) DO NOT stack (exceptional and dodge bonuses ought to stack as well - but since that was changed all of them should now be non-stacking as well). This needs to be true throughout the whole game. Then there will also be a lot less confusion

    .) Weapon Classifications

    There are currently the following attack types:
    .) ranged
    .) missile
    .) thrower
    .) bows
    .) repeating crossbows
    .) crossbows
    .) melee
    .) unarmed
    .) weapon
    .) attack
    .) piercing
    .) slashing
    .) bludgeoning

    The problem is:
    They are not used consistently. Sometimes a bow is a piercing weapon ... sometimes not ... sometimes a shuriken is ranged weapon ... sometimes not ... sometimes handwraps are bludgeoning weapons ... sometimes not. There are really countless examples for this kind of inconsistencies ... actually so many that I am no longer entirely sure where some weapons actually belong / what some of those types actually mean ... there is a lot to do for the people writing the effect descriptions. I would heavily recommend that poor guy you sentence to go over the effects to also check on the weapon types!

    .) Spell Classifications

    (Forgot which dev posted it) But we now know that each and every spell has a spell school. Please update ALL spell and spell-like-ability tooltips to include the spells school! Not only those of the epic spells, also those of destinies and enhancements and past live feats!!!!


    Bugs:

    .) Official and Inofficial Known Issues Lists

    In addition to the known issues list many players have aggregated inofficial bug lists. Please take the time to fix ALL of them. I know, DDO will never be completely bug-free as there will be more bugs discovered over time ...

    but please at least fix all those that are known already ... I very much appreciate that currently a lot of bugs get fixed ... so its a kinda bad timing for this reminder .. yet considering DDOs past ... please go-on fixing bugs, even once U19 is out!

    .) Wrong Item and Effect Descriptions

    In the chapter transparency, I already mentioned a lot of this, but there also descriptions that are simply plain wrong - so no weapon type or effect type or stacking issue ... but just a plain wrong description ... these of course also need fixing ASAP!


    Miscellenious

    .) Forums

    I know we won't get the old forums back, yet the automated logout is really annoying! Please give us a working remember-me option, so that we can stay logged in the forums indefinitely again! Thank you!

    .) Server Migration

    Not knowing the actual code and hardware, I simply do not know how actually feasable this would be. But it would be simply awesome if there was a way to merge the servers to 2-3 servers. I mean I very much guess that already now different servers handle the different instances - I mean the "main-server" only needs to handle the lfms and coordinate the transfer of toons from one instance server to another (most probably every time one switches group) ...

    thus the work load of the main-server would not increase by a lot ... yet I know what I am writing here is only theory and as long as I don't know the actual current implementation, I can only guess about feasibility ... I just know that lfms tend to fill really slow, especially when not running FoT, CitW, Shroud or HoRB ... a server merge would help a lot ... but of course only if the hardware and architecture allow it

    -----------------------------

    So this is it .... I really hope that this long text gets read by developers and maybe even producers! I also hope that this mixture of feedback and suggestions will help improve DDO!

    Wishing you as little stress and as much fun as possible during these last weeks before expansion release!

    Yours
    Urjak / Myriellah

    PS:
    I am no native English speaker and thus in advance beg for forgiveness for any grammar mistakes I made writing this long text
    Argonessen (mains):
    Myriellah (Stargazer II), Xryn (Pale Master), Ryaleen (Air Savant), Mayeena (Assassin)
    Leader and founder of the ShadowThieves guild

  2. #2
    Community Member whereispowderedsilve's Avatar
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    Default Wow! +1000 for the effort & thought put into this!

    Wow! +1000 for the effort & thought put into this! Some interesting ideas in there! Cheers! :P! !
    http://dillonpfaff5.wix.com/theob Sign this!!!: http://goo.gl/vS6htg

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  3. #3

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    Meh - I disagree with you on a lot of points.

    Take difficulty. It is highly subjective. I can solo EE no problem, and easily zerg it in a group. Yet you post about it being impossible to zerg EE. On the other hand, I have recently been in shroud runs with all 25s and been the only survivor of part 4. Those groups have little hope of completing an EE. Most people seem to what the illusion of difficulty. You can't use a single difficultly level to balance that level of disparity. And no matter what you set the levels at, most players will tend towards running just one of them, and do so efficiently. Such is the nature of humans and the distribution of ability.

    Your must have list of feats are, at best, simplistic. Shiradi arcanes (which you reference), have no need to take 3 evo foci + heighten + wiz past life. Almost all the spells they cast do not allow saves. Juggs use THF, but don't take the THF feat line. Your lists are just very basic templates. A few sets of reasonable feats. Hardly must-haves.

    Not convinced on a lot of your other points either. You complain about power creep being bad / too fast / shouldn't throw out all your old gear. But that is exactly what World of Warcraft does every update. And they are clearly more successful (in a number of players and financial sense) than DDO. So, that can't be some hard and fast rule of game design. It clearly doesn't even apply to most folks who play MMOs.

  4. #4
    Community Member Urjak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdinus7 View Post
    Meh - I disagree with you on a lot of points.
    Never said I'm unfailable / without error - and only other points of view can lead to a good discussion - so that's no bad thing

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdinus7 View Post
    Take difficulty. It is highly subjective. I can solo EE no problem, and easily zerg it in a group. Yet you post about it being impossible to zerg EE. On the other hand, I have recently been in shroud runs with all 25s and been the only survivor of part 4. Those groups have little hope of completing an EE. Most people seem to what the illusion of difficulty. You can't use a single difficultly level to balance that level of disparity. And no matter what you set the levels at, most players will tend towards running just one of them, and do so efficiently. Such is the nature of humans and the distribution of ability.
    First off, gratz on you being able to solo / group zerg EE ... as I wrote in that section, I know that there are lots of better players out there and the issue worrying me is that I am able to solo zerg EH ... in case I missjudged the current status of EE (as your post indicates) - well make EE even harder np ...

    Considering Shroud ... being level 25 says very little about the actual power of a character, what gear did they use? what destinies? did they have destinies at all? at what level? at what difficulty did you run it? how many divines did you bring? how many were new to the Shroud? was it a PUG? ... as you can see the Shroud is IMO hardly a good benchmark for this issue.

    Also I am completely aware that difficulty is subjective, yet as I stated elsewhere more than once, if I (a far from perfect player) am able to solo zerg EH without hire / DDO-Store resources - something is wrong ... the lists I gave are just estimates ... based on their actual descriptions that are currently ingame! Of course it will never apply to each and every player (chaos-theory, statistics, ...). Yet for the majority it does. Just look at the lfm panel: EE: rarely, EH most of the time and it gets zerged to death, EN: for xp/flagging (where people sleepwalk through it)

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdinus7 View Post
    Your must have list of feats are, at best, simplistic. Shiradi arcanes (which you reference), have no need to take 3 evo foci + heighten + wiz past life. Almost all the spells they cast do not allow saves. Juggs use THF, but don't take the THF feat line. Your lists are just very basic templates. A few sets of reasonable feats. Hardly must-haves.
    I extra wrote they are examples and put "..." at the end to indicate this list is in no way complete. In my arcane damage list I was thinking of classic nukers (-> Draconic Sorcs) - sorry should have made that more clear. Juggs are in my opinion a special case and not the rule thus they IMO fall in the category "..." aka the ones I didn't list (if you look closely I on purpose omitted all divine builds ) ... the list is meant to be examples ... and if you think of your Juggernauts ... they most probably all have almost the same feat-set ... don't they? ;p

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdinus7 View Post
    Not convinced on a lot of your other points either. You complain about power creep being bad / too fast / shouldn't throw out all your old gear. But that is exactly what World of Warcraft does every update. And they are clearly more successful (in a number of players and financial sense) than DDO. So, that can't be some hard and fast rule of game design. It clearly doesn't even apply to most folks who play MMOs.
    Well Wow might be more successful overall ... but I do not think that DDO survived so long because it imitated WoW so well ... IMO the more DDO becomes a clone of WoW the less reason there is to actually play DDO ... I mean why play a cheap copy if you can play the original? ... IMO DDO survived because it is / was different ... so to say: an alternative to WoW and cheap WoW imitators in the market of theme-park-MMORPGs ... the more DDO becomes like WoW the less it is an actual alternative and the more it becomes just one of tons of other WoW imitators ... just saying ...

    Oh, and if you think off when DDO went free-to-play ... the moment that clearly revived DDO and increased the number of players by a lot ... there was not such a steep power creep we are seeing since U14 and even worse U19 ... of course players are all different ... but at least I do not see any inclination to grind out gear when I know in one or two months it will be garbage anyhow ...
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    I agree with a lot of the OP. One solution I would propose would be mulit-faceted:

    1.) Eliminate the current old shard/scroll/seal system in old epics, people just do not farm these much anymore...and make a base lvl 20 epic item drop in said quests.

    2.) Allow epic crafting with heroic comms and maybe specific ings that only drop in those chains like relics in GH. These old epic items can be crafted to higher levels (i.e. lvl 23, lvl 25 and lvl 28 versions). I personally think the GH crafting system works great for DDO and this would promote recycling some of the outdated epic content.

    3.) Allow all epic versions of items to be upgraded in this fashion (including FR items), but they become BTC once upgraded. Only found EE versions are BTCoE.

    4.) More sources for heroic commendations need to be added. It would be nice to see them drop from any raid...even heroics, but with a reduced chance. I think sagas would be another good source for these to be added.

    Lets face it old epic items are mostly outdated and there is content there that could be recycled, making it and drops there relevant again. This also future proofs quests and items whenever the level cap gets risen.

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    Community Member pelaaja's Avatar
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    I point out one thing:

    Also on the list of missing base weaponry:
    .) Slings (a one handed ranged weapon)
    .) Hand-Crossbows (same)
    .) Punching Dagger (for tha style yo^^)
    .) Sai (monk piercing weapon, 1h)
    .) Siangham and Nun-chakus (monk bludgeoning weapons, 1h)
    .) Whip
    .) Trident
    .) Net (okay, I get why that one is not in-game)
    .) Double-weapons (Urgrosh, doublesword, doubleaxe, double-morningstar)
    .) Flail
    .) Heavy Flail
    .) Throwing Spears
    .) ... probably some more I forgot now
    You forgot basic spear and shortspear.

    Also, i'd also like to add that there should be a way to also only use weapons in 1h to resemble swashbuckler/duelist. Maybe give it as a prestige to fighters.

    +1 thoguh for the post
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    Of course the trick is in knowing just how to bend the halfling...otherwise they never come back.

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    Community Member Urjak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pelaaja View Post
    I point out one thing:


    You forgot basic spear and shortspear.

    Also, i'd also like to add that there should be a way to also only use weapons in 1h to resemble swashbuckler/duelist. Maybe give it as a prestige to fighters.

    +1 thoguh for the post
    The quoted list was in addition to the long requested weapons:
    scythes
    spears (spear, shortspear, longspear)
    polearms (halberd, glaive, guisarme, ranseur)

    and thank you
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urjak View Post
    The quoted list was in addition to the long requested weapons:
    scythes
    spears (spear, shortspear, longspear)
    polearms (halberd, glaive, guisarme, ranseur)

    and thank you
    pole arms are in-game already (sireth), they just aren't type listed as such.

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    Community Member humbleroller's Avatar
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    nah they will reply with TL;DR.

    Dear Turbine,

    Fix the bugs before adding new ones.

    Thanks,
    A paying customer.

    (ps: greensteel handwraps now please!)
    Real join date: Update 7

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    As I browse the OP post I can't help reflect on how far the game has come. I've been playing the game non-stop since the launch and almost all the OPs points have already been addressed, over and over. The game gets new shine and over time it becomes the old dull and we want more. All that you desire will come but possibly not fast enough to satisfy a full time ddo gamer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdinus7 View Post
    Meh - I disagree with you on a lot of points.
    Not convinced on a lot of your other points either. You complain about power creep being bad / too fast / shouldn't throw out all your old gear. But that is exactly what World of Warcraft does every update. And they are clearly more successful (in a number of players and financial sense) than DDO. So, that can't be some hard and fast rule of game design. It clearly doesn't even apply to most folks who play MMOs.
    You're comparing apples to a three course meal in McDonalds.

    WoW does it in a different manner. They itemize the new expansion properly. When you have the top of the line gear set from the hardest raids, you might not get upgrades the first quest you run, but by the second or third chain the random items start to bypass the previous best-in-slot. Going further, named items from quests etc replace your full gear set so you can tackle the new raids (plural) that give you new full set of gear. In WoW the expansion is an actual expansion, with tons of content: quests, raids, full gear replacements for all the builds, etc. In DDO the expansion is an actual moneygrab, with next to no content, zero raids and a few levels with old content to level up with. Furthermore, in WoW, once the expansion hits, all older content is instantly dead, other than for leveling alts.

    I'm not saying WoW is a better game. Though it has more public appeal, DDO has thrived with the fact, that most content is playable still years later. With the level cap of 20, most of the raids in the level range of 10 to 20 were run constantly. However, now with level cap increased to 25, half of those stopped running, and with 28 there is a real risk of even more content being deemed useless. Chrono, sometimes for exp, nobody uses the loot. ADQ, already there. C-raids, hah. VoN, depending on exp scaling, but I fear that 28s push the exp down enough that it will stop as well. FoT, perhaps sometimes for comms, but with the random +11 items, less so. Shroud is already a marginal raid for the tr crowd.

    So, the endgame raids in the 28-level game are: CitW. Hooray.

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    Community Member Sunarch_Kunari's Avatar
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    Expected a ranty post. Actually got a well thought out organized list that I agree with.

    +1 and /signed
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    Quote Originally Posted by pelaaja View Post
    I point out one thing:


    You forgot basic spear and shortspear.

    Also, i'd also like to add that there should be a way to also only use weapons in 1h to resemble swashbuckler/duelist. Maybe give it as a prestige to fighters.

    +1 thoguh for the post
    Would love to see Single Weapon Style in DDO!
    Preferably as ONE Feat though - Giving it as a Prestige to Fighters isn't going to help Rogues, FavSouls, Wizard/Rogues etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by Urjak View Post
    The quoted list was in addition to the long requested weapons:
    scythes
    spears (spear, shortspear, longspear)
    polearms (halberd, glaive, guisarme, ranseur)

    and thank you
    And my personal Favourite - The Lucerne Hammer!


    Quote Originally Posted by jskinner937 View Post
    pole arms are in-game already (sireth), they just aren't type listed as such.

    Sireth's a Spear {Quarterstaff in DDO}.

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    I have to disagree with your AC arguement.

    AC is almost worthless again. 50% miss chance on character sheet is misleading. I get hit almost every time. You have to go all ac to get any sort of benefit and it's really minimal. The % miss chance in the character sheet is nothing like it's working. And then there are characters with armor but not all the other ac goodies. a little prr and 5% chance to get hit in character sheet (my bard). Leather armor and buckler don't make a difference to anything.

    I have a "high AC" tank (140ish) and on en he gets smacked around like he's naked on korthos. Dodge, blur/incon and PRR are the only damage avoidance working at the moment.

    The ac formula is broke both ways, they can hit us and we can hit them all the time, armor doesn't really matter till you get to the top of the spectrum as it used to be. only now we get some prr out of it.
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    Community Member Urjak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thar View Post
    I have to disagree with your AC arguement.

    AC is almost worthless again. 50% miss chance on character sheet is misleading. I get hit almost every time. You have to go all ac to get any sort of benefit and it's really minimal. The % miss chance in the character sheet is nothing like it's working. And then there are characters with armor but not all the other ac goodies. a little prr and 5% chance to get hit in character sheet (my bard). Leather armor and buckler don't make a difference to anything.

    I have a "high AC" tank (140ish) and on en he gets smacked around like he's naked on korthos. Dodge, blur/incon and PRR are the only damage avoidance working at the moment.

    The ac formula is broke both ways, they can hit us and we can hit them all the time, armor doesn't really matter till you get to the top of the spectrum as it used to be. only now we get some prr out of it.
    Hmmm ... my shuriken monkcher has ~86 AC, 25% dodge, 25% incorporality, 20% blur and 39 PRR on lamma (on live AC is 82 I think and dodge is around 15%) ... and on EN and EH, this build is quite the survivor^^ ... but I guess I should pay more attention to how many actual misses there are ... and how many are negated throw the other stuff ...
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    Community Member Urjak's Avatar
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    Exclamation Hoping any dev actually read this :/

    (*bump*)

    I mean I'm not asking for explanations, concrete plans or the like ... and I also understand that they are quite busy bugfixing atm ... but a "read by dev" note would be very welcome! :/
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    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urjak View Post
    -stuff-
    EN and EH are beyond easy. That needs to be addressed as well!
    To put it in comparison: My monkcher, purely because I was bored, decided to try make eHard hard(ish).

    I completely tanked my AC, used no incorp, no blur, no dodge items (dodge feat+monk was there though) and then avoided heal scrolls+cocoon.

    In short, it was still a joke. I'm with the OP on that; eHard should be hard... Not.. whatever this joke is. Having said that, leave heroic as is - there's enough challenges for new players, and the vets TRing don't really care for the content, they just want to level. (Or, at least, that's my experience)

    However, EE is where AC is an issue. From my experience, either invest a crapload into AC or ignore it completely - ~100 won't help. My first life monk (87 AC) thought it would help. He didn't live long, not at all.



    In regards to other things, I quite liked the seal+shard system - aside from the obvious "WHY THE HELL WON'T IT DROP?" moments. [See: Epic Sword of Shadow]
    And I detest this "epic, epic hard and epic elite" system. It means eHard is pointless, because you'll need to get a whole new item eventually.

    It means that a new player, wanting to play at endgame, needs to get EE items - and just how do they do that? Goddamnit, I do not want a level 23 artificer, level 1 fatesinger, nor a level 20 barb, level 0 shiradi in EE groups because they want the best stuff - grinding it twice is silly.*

    So, the major issue of seal/shard/item/scroll system was the complete randomness - could take any amount of ransacks to get it. (RNG still hates you). The major issue of the GH system... Pay to win, needing to grind twice if you aren't good enough for EE. (or spending plat/shards on them)

    My idea? Seal+shard+item+scroll... with a twist. After X completions, we get a choice between every shard, seal and scroll.

    Which would lead to eCasual (oh god) farming, I guess. Perhaps make it 50 eNormal runs, 25 eHard or 10 EE runs? Again, it's just my idea, but I like it. It has grinding (perhaps not enough?), doable by all, yet has a definite amount of time before you get the item.

    *Note. These two players did join my EE group, at the same time.

    TL;DR - eHard to be harder, seal+shard system was fun(ish), but needs a definite seal/shard on Xth completion, varying by difficulty. GH system of sellable loot needs to burn. (sorry for the long rant)

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    I don't agree with many of the OP points. I do think there should be a way to upgrade EN items to EH and EH items to EE. I like how it works in FOT, but there would need to be another way to do it besides coms unless it took considerably less Coms.

    EN and EH are fine as is. EE is the extreme challenge, but of course it's not really as long as you have one fo the current flavor builds.
    Last edited by unacceptable; 08-07-2013 at 07:58 AM.

  19. #19
    Community Member Urjak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    EN and EH are beyond easy. That needs to be addressed as well!
    To put it in comparison: My monkcher, purely because I was bored, decided to try make eHard hard(ish).

    I completely tanked my AC, used no incorp, no blur, no dodge items (dodge feat+monk was there though) and then avoided heal scrolls+cocoon.

    In short, it was still a joke. I'm with the OP on that; eHard should be hard... Not.. whatever this joke is. Having said that, leave heroic as is - there's enough challenges for new players, and the vets TRing don't really care for the content, they just want to level. (Or, at least, that's my experience)

    However, EE is where AC is an issue. From my experience, either invest a crapload into AC or ignore it completely - ~100 won't help. My first life monk (87 AC) thought it would help. He didn't live long, not at all.



    In regards to other things, I quite liked the seal+shard system - aside from the obvious "WHY THE HELL WON'T IT DROP?" moments. [See: Epic Sword of Shadow]
    And I detest this "epic, epic hard and epic elite" system. It means eHard is pointless, because you'll need to get a whole new item eventually.

    It means that a new player, wanting to play at endgame, needs to get EE items - and just how do they do that? Goddamnit, I do not want a level 23 artificer, level 1 fatesinger, nor a level 20 barb, level 0 shiradi in EE groups because they want the best stuff - grinding it twice is silly.*

    So, the major issue of seal/shard/item/scroll system was the complete randomness - could take any amount of ransacks to get it. (RNG still hates you). The major issue of the GH system... Pay to win, needing to grind twice if you aren't good enough for EE. (or spending plat/shards on them)

    My idea? Seal+shard+item+scroll... with a twist. After X completions, we get a choice between every shard, seal and scroll.

    Which would lead to eCasual (oh god) farming, I guess. Perhaps make it 50 eNormal runs, 25 eHard or 10 EE runs? Again, it's just my idea, but I like it. It has grinding (perhaps not enough?), doable by all, yet has a definite amount of time before you get the item.

    *Note. These two players did join my EE group, at the same time.

    TL;DR - eHard to be harder, seal+shard system was fun(ish), but needs a definite seal/shard on Xth completion, varying by difficulty. GH system of sellable loot needs to burn. (sorry for the long rant)
    I think the Sagas system would also be a way for "guaranteed" seal/shard/base item drop ... something like every 20 normal turn-in, every 15th hard turn-in and every 10th true elite turn-in you can additionally to the normal options chose a complete list of shards or complete list of seals as reward ... (numbers might need to be adjusted ... though I think they are fine ... given that sagas have around 20 quests or so ... x 20 normal runs ... makes 400 normal quest completions or 300 hard or 200 elite ... alternative might be 20/10/5 so hard would be 200 and elite 100 on average ... though IMO this would punish normal too much and make it kinda pointless unless EH gets more difficult)
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    Community Member pelaaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Would love to see Single Weapon Style in DDO!
    Preferably as ONE Feat though - Giving it as a Prestige to Fighters isn't going to help Rogues, FavSouls, Wizard/Rogues etc.
    Maybe not one, but two, like Duelist and Improved Duelist
    Quote Originally Posted by amnota View Post
    Halfling thrower builds are fun.

    Of course the trick is in knowing just how to bend the halfling...otherwise they never come back.

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