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  1. #1
    Community Member Urjak's Avatar
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    Unhappy Master Thrower still not working :(

    With so many shuriken related stuff coming ... please fix Master Thrower before the xpack hits live! Halflings specialty always were throwing weapons and sneak attack. Now that shuriken get so much attention, please keep those halflings favored weapon style boni that were so long in game and more or less useless. (and yes I already bug-reported it one or two weeks ago)

    For those wondering ... the bumps to shuriken are:
    Master Thrower (not working at all)
    Skillful Thrower (working)
    Sting of the Ninja (working, at least for shuriken)
    Whirling Wrist (working)
    Ninja Spy II (working)
    Shuriken Expertise (working)
    10k Stars (working)
    Archers Focus (so completely bugged that I'm not really sure how its supposed to work)
    Heavy Draw (working)
    Leg Shot (working)
    Sniper Shot (working)
    Head Shot (working)

    *bump* *bump* *bump* and now we need some epic shuriken too ;p
    Argonessen (mains):
    Myriellah (Stargazer II), Xryn (Pale Master), Ryaleen (Air Savant), Mayeena (Assassin)
    Leader and founder of the ShadowThieves guild

  2. #2
    Founder Delacroix21's Avatar
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    Whirling wrist does not give a 60% speed increase as advertised, testing has shown it to be (from another poster, verified by me)=

    Without quick draw or rapid fire I threw 47 shurikens per minute. With tier 1 Whirling Wrist (WW) 52/min; tier 2 WW 57/min; and tier 3 WW 62/min.

    The above numbers are averages of three measurements. No measurement varied by more than 1 from the average.


    The issue is the "reload animation" of throwing weapons appears to cut attack speed increases by half or more, while archery appears to fire arrows independent of the animation.
    Making DDO a better game 1 post at a time!

    Triple EVERYTHING Completionist= Heroic 39/39, Iconic 12/12, Epic 36/36

  3. #3
    Quality Assurance KookieKobold's Avatar
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    read by QA!

  4. #4
    Community Member Urjak's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    Whirling wrist does not give a 60% speed increase as advertised, testing has shown it to be (from another poster, verified by me)=

    Without quick draw or rapid fire I threw 47 shurikens per minute. With tier 1 Whirling Wrist (WW) 52/min; tier 2 WW 57/min; and tier 3 WW 62/min.

    The above numbers are averages of three measurements. No measurement varied by more than 1 from the average.


    The issue is the "reload animation" of throwing weapons appears to cut attack speed increases by half or more, while archery appears to fire arrows independent of the animation.
    major testing i only did with shuriken .... here some numbers (from this https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...d-Stealth-nerf thread):

    Shuriken Attack Speed
    Halfling Ranger 8/Rogue 6/Monk 6/Epic 5 (on lamma: 8)
    Noteable feats: Rapid Shot, Quick Draw
    BAB 21 Live (U18):
    Base apm (attacks per minute): ~63,51 apm
    Wind Stance (7,5% throwing): ~65,22 apm
    Haste (22% ranged): ~68,57 apm
    WS + H: ~71,40 apm
    Whirling Wrist (60% throwing): ~78,29 apm
    WW + WS: ~79,87 apm
    WW + H: ~81,50 apm
    WW + H + WS: ~81,90 apm
    WW + H + WS + EotA:S (10% ranged+throwing): ~81,49 apm
    WW + H + WS + EotA:S + Haste Boost 3: ~83,64 apm

    BAB 22 Lammania (U19Beta3):
    Base: ~64,84 apm (vs. ~63,51 @ BAB 21)
    Ultimate Wind Stance (15% throwing): ~70,23 apm
    Haste (now only 15% ranged): ~70,37 apm (vs. ~68,57 apm @ BAB 21)
    UWS + H: ~71,31 (vs. 71,40 @ BAB 21)

    so far so good ... but now it gets creepy:
    Whirling Wrist (60% throwing): ~74,41 apm (vs. ~78,29 apm @ BAB 21)
    WW + UWS: ~77,36 apm (vs. 79,87 apm @ BAB 21)
    WW + H: ~77,69 apm (vs. 81,50 apm @ BAB 21)
    WW + H + UWS + EotA: ~78,41 apm (vs. 81,49 apm @ BAB 21)
    (skipped the Haste Boost test as I grew tired)

    Conclusion:
    Looks like Haste and Whirling Wrist both got a stealth nerf

    PS: I did the live server tests somewhen in june ... and EotA:S means Echoes of the Ancestors: Shirardi

    and as you can see:
    attack speed buffs for throwing weapons work completely weird, nonlinear and I have no idea what the actual formula is ...

    during extensive testing I came up with the formula:

    [BAS] = 1 / min
    Base_Attack_Speed(BAB) = BAS(BAB) = 33,5 * (1,0281693082 ^ (BAB - 4)) //This formula only works for BAB >= 3. For the rest: BAS(0) = 25, BAS(1) = 29,5, BAS(2) = 31

    Quickdraw_Bonus(BAB) = QDB(BAB) = 0,1675049085 + 0,02387739 / BAB
    Rapid_Shot_Bonus(BAB) = RSB(BAB) = QDB(BAB)

    For some weird reason Quickdraw and Rapidshot overlay => if you got both you get less effect than you would expect:
    QD_and_RS_Combomodificator(BAB) = QRC(BAB) = (0,2080233409 - 0,0264378989 * BAB) * 0,1696415

    Since all of these numbers stem from numerical analysis - haste bonus seems to give an additive AND an multiplicative bonus:
    Additive_Haste_Bonus(BAB) = AHB(BAB) = 0,9774592356 - 0,04929604 * BAB
    Multiplicative_Haste_Bonus(BAB) = MHB(BAB) = -0,1793199173 + 0,0495270308 * BAB

    Next anomaly is: Wind Stance that gives an enhancement bonus to throwing speed stacks partially with Haste:
    Wind_Stance_Stacking_Percentage = WSSP = 0,58225

    Also we now need the modified (by whatever) actual boni from haste and windstance:
    Modified_Wind_Stance_Bonus(Wind_Stance_Bonus) = MWSB = 1 * Wind_Stance_Bonus
    Modified_Haste_Bonus(Enhancement_Bonus_Ranged) = MoHB = 0,81 * Enhancement_Bonus_Ranged

    So ... now we got all functions and constants (yay) ... here the final formula:

    Code:
    Attacks_per_Minute(BAB) = APM(BAB) =
       33,5 *
       (
          BAS(BAB) + QDB(BAB) + RSB(BAB) + AHB *
          (
             MAX(MoHB; (1 - WSSP) * MWSB) + 
                0,58225 * MWSB
          )
       ) * (
          1 + MHB * 
          (
             Haste_Boost + MAX(MoHB; (1 - WSSP) * I$21) + WSSP * MWSB
          )
       )
    Unfortunately this formula stopps working once you start using Whirling Wrist ... or the U19 Beta ...
    For U18 (no WW):
    Average Error: 0,18%
    Variance: 0,0032088252
    Maximum Error: 1,34% (BAB1 Lesser Wind Stance)
    Argonessen (mains):
    Myriellah (Stargazer II), Xryn (Pale Master), Ryaleen (Air Savant), Mayeena (Assassin)
    Leader and founder of the ShadowThieves guild

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