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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by zagler View Post
    And why are most of you so rude in your responses? I have a legitimate complaint and my post was intended to let the developers know that I'm not happy about my path being obsolete suddenly. Also, SOME of us don't do "lego" directions very well!
    Because it's not really obsolete? I didn't do an exhaustive check but I rolled a bard real quick and looked at the enhancements. As far as I can tell you can get everything that you used to have as a virtuoso plus access to a bunch of new interesting things to boot.

  2. #22
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    @Zagler:

    Log in to Lam, go to the Test Dojo, grab some free plat, then go to trainer and explore your enhancement options. Reset them all, if you need to. I believe Coyopa is right, and you will be pleasantly surprised.

    Everyone will have to go through the hassle of re-making their toons; at least some of us have a head start.
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  3. #23
    The Front Side Gratch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zagler View Post
    What's OP mean? And that was probably me. I was not singing softly with a succession of changing notes. You need to look up the definition of warbled. I believe the term you're looking for is desultory. It's one thing to redo your enhancements. It's quite another thing to have your entire character line up disappear. I don't even know what a spellsinger or a warchanter IS. And, yeah, I was too aggravated to "party" with someone who would just tell me what to pick without [me] having any understanding of what or why. Moreover, I won't know how to play the character that I end up with. What if you were a rogue and you picked the assissin path and then all of a sudden it's gone. How would you redo your enhancements for a path that you know nothing about? Tschüs ist korrect! ich werde meckern und stöhnen!

    And what does "A virtuoso missing their enhancements... how is that in any game changing way different than the current live server" mean?

    And why are most of you so rude in your responses? I have a legitimate complaint and my post was intended to let the developers know that I'm not happy about my path being obsolete suddenly. Also, SOME of us don't do "lego" directions very well!
    I wrote a many word reply and then the forums killed my login and pooft. So I'll summarize. (Imagine extra ill-fitting adjectives and historical briefings as you will.)

    Sorry they're taking away the OLD enhancements and forcing a redo of your characters. If unexpected that is a slap to the face. They have been talking about the NEW system for 2 years. New people to the game... they complained about the lists and scrolling of the OLD. So the OLD had to go.

    I'm rude because you're complaining they've taken away your OLD. I've tested the NEW and the NEW (especially for bards) is much better than the OLD so I'm being defensive rude because I don't want the OLD. Really if you get to play with the NEW you might like it. It's easy to select and resetting is free on Lama (in that there's 1 million plat stacks in the middle of the dojo). Plus there's a lot of people in the dojo who can explain the system or individual pieces or WHERE DID MY FAVORITE ENHANCEMENT GO.

    I was making fun of Virtuoso as though it has no impact on the game other than flavor. But going from the OLD to the NEW Virtuoso and Spellsinger combined into one tree and Spellsinger won the naming contest, but now you can pickup most of both Paths of abilities at once... and they've improved many of said abilities so they now stack with items and ship buffs and other feats... which is GOOD for bards; a currently very underplayed class (excluding bardchers). Also... they've rounded out a lot of the races with NEW.

    There... I've written too much again. In summary: Let the anger pass, go check out the new stuff on Lama... a lot of it works (better than it used to work) and Zanger, auf die dunkle Seite zu kommen! <EXTENDED MENACING HAND>
    Last edited by Gratch; 08-02-2013 at 02:29 AM.
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  4. #24
    Community Member PNellesen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    Everyone will have to go through the hassle of re-making their toons; at least some of us have a head start.
    I think a LOT of players, the ones who don't read or post on the forums, and don't know it's coming, are going to react in a way similar to the OP. I know my initial reaction upon realizing I'm going to have to redo the enhancements (and possibly the entire build as well) on all my characters was similar, if not quite as extreme.

    While I personally like the new UI, I'm in the group that thinks that's ALL they should have changed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertay View Post
    While they were at it though, the devs decided to go on an incredible nerfhammer rampage and left nothing in their wake standing...

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNellesen View Post
    I think a LOT of players, the ones who don't read or post on the forums, and don't know it's coming, are going to react in a way similar to the OP. I know my initial reaction upon realizing I'm going to have to redo the enhancements (and possibly the entire build as well) on all my characters was similar, if not quite as extreme.

    While I personally like the new UI, I'm in the group that thinks that's ALL they should have changed.
    This tells me that you are then in the group that has not really played around with the new enhancements or bothered to lesser reincarnate their character on Lammania. I have done this to 12 characters now, which has given me a lot of opportunity to get familiar with the new enhancements. The changes they are putting into place with this enhancement pass are going to be good for the game and they are going to add to the fun for existing players. There will be a few builds that will fall, but new ones will rise up. Even my 12 ranger/7 monk/1 rogue I was certain was going to be irrevocably broken is, in fact, not broken.

  6. #26
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Pretty sure that he's copied over a few characters.
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

    “A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll feel worse when he feels better.”

  7. #27
    Community Member PNellesen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyopa View Post
    The changes they are putting into place with this enhancement pass are going to be good for the game and they are going to add to the fun for existing players.
    I don't really disagree with this (my Melee Clerics look like they may actually be better in the new system), but it's the sheer scope of the changes that was so disconcerting. It's one thing to know in advance, and have a chance to play around on Lamma to see what might work and what doesn't, but my point is that all the players who DON'T know this is coming (and I suspect there are many of them) are likely to react in a manner similar to the OP and just walk away from the game in disgust.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertay View Post
    While they were at it though, the devs decided to go on an incredible nerfhammer rampage and left nothing in their wake standing...

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNellesen View Post
    I don't really disagree with this (my Melee Clerics look like they may actually be better in the new system), but it's the sheer scope of the changes that was so disconcerting. It's one thing to know in advance, and have a chance to play around on Lamma to see what might work and what doesn't, but my point is that all the players who DON'T know this is coming (and I suspect there are many of them) are likely to react in a manner similar to the OP and just walk away from the game in disgust.

    Really, aside from spamming everyone's email, or making a huge announcement appear on your screen when you log into the game, they've done all they can for letting people know about it. It's been on forums, it's on ddowiki, it's been talked about for months on end.

    And let's face it, if they did those two things, half the people would still say they were never informed, AND everyone would whine about turbine spamming their email or having annoying reminders when they log in.

  9. #29
    Community Member Chaimberland's Avatar
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    I think the OP has a legitimate beef. I also play a virtuoso and have not played the other prestige lines. I'll admit the upcoming change makes me nervous. I'm not looking forward to having to redo all my toons when the update hits. My playing time is limited and when I log on I want to play right away, not waste time redoing my toons.

  10. #30

    Default Saying this again in a new thread

    Ultimately my bard right now is a spell singer healing based bard, and after the enhancement pass she comes out well ahead in my book in terms of what she can do. Under the old system I could not get any virtuoso songs or any warchanter songs. Now I can get nearly every buff song a bard can sing and still retain if not better the original focus I had of being a healing specced bard. Overall this pass only broke (and by broke I mean I can't take the highest tier defender stuff without a shield anymore) one of my characters and every other character comes out either pretty even or ahead. My flavor 20 rog acrobat now seems like he may be a powerhouse and much more fun to play in the future than as just a "flavor" toon.

    So yes, the change is coming it'll be different but DDO is nothing if not a game of change, new levels, epic destines, new classes and occasional races. We will adapt we will get better and somewhere down the line things will change again.

    Bowserkoopa,

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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by zagler View Post
    I'm like really annoyed, dissapointed and ****ed. I thought the idea of being invited to the beta was to actually PLAY on it; but no! All of my enhancements are gone and now there's a WoW tree (one of the reasons I stopped playing WoW, I might add) AND to make matter worse, Virtuoso of the Sword isn't even a class. So, am I now suppoed to spend 3 hours reading wiki and searching through forums to find out what a spellsinger/warchanter is, what enhancements are good for them, and what stuff I will lose? Then another 3 hours picking enhancements and trying to figure out how to use this tree since everytime I mouse onto something I can't pick it because I have to have at least "x" amount of points alreay picked?

    Is this what DDO is going to do? All of my current characters will have to be redone? Because I don't want to do that. How do I get my $99 back because I'm not going to play if I have to redo all 10 of my characters.
    Yes you are supposed to spend 3 hours reading the new stuff ....... Major changes coming and you decided to hop in on the beta ........ What did you expect?
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaimberland View Post
    I think the OP has a legitimate beef.
    Legit? Sure. A year or two ago. Now? During beta? When it's not even news? Not so much.
    Quote Originally Posted by zagler View Post
    It's quite another thing to have your entire character line up disappear.
    Except it hasn't. That seems to be the part you're ignoring.

    How would you redo your enhancements for a path that you know nothing about?
    . . . I"d do this weird, outside the box thing, and READ THE ENHANCEMENTS AVAILABLE. Crazy, I know. Then I'd play around with the character a bit, take a note here and there and reset if necessary.

    I have a legitimate complaint and my post was intended to let the developers know that I'm not happy about my path being obsolete suddenly.
    About the legitimacy, see above. If you don't want people responding, don't post on a forum. And again, it's not obsolete. If you would read instead of wasting your time complaining, you'd know that. But you don't actually want a solution to your issue, you just want to complain, in which case, perhaps a blog would be better venue.

    And really, I don't believe the line about not knowing what a spellsinger or warchanter is. It's not like those are new for bards.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
    Legit? Sure. A year or two ago. Now? During beta? When it's not even news? Not so much.
    Except it hasn't. That seems to be the part you're ignoring.

    . . . I"d do this weird, outside the box thing, and READ THE ENHANCEMENTS AVAILABLE. Crazy, I know. Then I'd play around with the character a bit, take a note here and there and reset if necessary.

    About the legitimacy, see above. If you don't want people responding, don't post on a forum. And again, it's not obsolete. If you would read instead of wasting your time complaining, you'd know that. But you don't actually want a solution to your issue, you just want to complain, in which case, perhaps a blog would be better venue.

    And really, I don't believe the line about not knowing what a spellsinger or warchanter is. It's not like those are new for bards.
    From the OP's post count, she is not a forum monkey. It is possible she didn't know about the EP, or at least how much change there would be.

    The Virtuoso enhancements were merged with Spellsinger, and the Virtuoso name is no longer apparent. This can give the appearance that it is gone.

    The OP's post is as legitimate as anyone else's. Who are you to deny her feelings and her need to vent a little? I have seen far more foolish threads in this forum. The OP is expressing an issue that is/will be probably more in keeping with the majority of players, since forum users are only a small part of the players.

    If all one played was a Rogue Mechanic, they may have no idea what choices to make for Assassin or Acrobat. Credible.

    For some of you, this is old news, because you follow every dev announcement and play on Lam whenever. I am thinking Zagler's first contact was closed beta - more of a shock. There was no need for anyone to be rude.

    @Zagler:
    Have you figured out your changes yet?
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  14. #34
    Community Member Mindos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zagler View Post
    What's OP mean?
    Original Poster.
    AKA the thread starter.

  15. #35
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    Default nice example of community spirit

    Quote Originally Posted by Atremus View Post
    I hate to tell you that this enhancement pass has been 2 years in the making. How did you not expect to have to redo all of your characters? If you quit, dont post about it. Just go.
    You can read, right? He paid his $99, feels ripped, and at least it bought him the right to post his say here. Try having some respect.
    Lots of folks have posted similarlarly,too, and unless you're a forum troll, no incling of all these massive changes were advertised to the customers/players.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaimberland View Post
    I think the OP has a legitimate beef. I also play a virtuoso and have not played the other prestige lines. I'll admit the upcoming change makes me nervous. I'm not looking forward to having to redo all my toons when the update hits. My playing time is limited and when I log on I want to play right away, not waste time redoing my toons.
    I can understand play time being limited and wanting to play right away. However, most people's play time is limited - including mine. Therefore, this parameter does not make you unique. The fact is that you and everyone else is going to have to take the time to re-do their enhancements on or after 19 Aug. There is no way around this, unless you simply quit playing.

    When you have access to Lammania, you should copy your bard over and have a look at the enhancements. If you do not want to do this, then trust me when I say you will be pretty happy with the changes that are coming. Your bard will be a lot more flexible and versatile after 19 Aug than it is currently.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    In fairness, there are several hidden "rank 3 only" enhancements sprinkled around the trees, and they're usually pretty sweet. I will never plan a build without verifying what all the rank 3 abilities are, and for that wiki is far quicker than trying to squeeze that info out of the new UI.

    Quick example: Arcane Archer spell point enhancement grants Magical Training on rank 3. That would be super easy to never see and a downer to miss out on.
    I've always been of the opinion that the tooltip should show info on all ranks of an ability
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  18. #38
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    many people have weighed in, but i just want to toss this little gem out there..

    the OP (original poster) said "my CLASS (emphasis mine) is not a choice... Virtuoso of the Sword isn't even a class!"


    i think we need to back up a step. no offense intended toward the OP at ALL, but i think that the OP is a newer player, and hasn't even delved into the mess and morass of an enhancement system we have currently. "Virtuoso of the Sword" is one of the bard premade paths. (note to the OP, it's not your class. your class is bard. Virtuoso would have been your prestige enhancement)

    to someone who has been just playing the game, letting the game make the choices, and hasn't even really looked at that long un-intuitive list we've all been dealing with for years... the new tree system, especially without a "virtuoso" option at all, is an absolutely HUGE change and probably quite overwhelming.

    to the OP... there have always been enhancements in the background that you may not have really played around with... and they have always been a big overwhelming list that was difficult to work with and i usually used the wiki to make sure i got everything i wanted. the new system is actually far easier to understand and use. i recommend giving it a chance. take it from another bard player (see my sig? lol)... i'm excited about this change. tinker around with it for a while in lama. don't be put off by any visual similarities to anything you know and don't like. just give it a shot, if you really really can't stand it... i wish you well. have fun in whatever game you find that suits you.
    Last edited by katz; 08-09-2013 at 09:47 AM.

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  19. #39
    Community Member WilliamBraveheart's Avatar
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    Well I personally find this Tree thing to be much more constrictive than the existing system and harder to use and understand. I mean I cannot even come close to recreating the characters I have on live now all 30 of them look to be nerfed big time.


    Lookin for sumthin to kill!!

  20. #40
    Community Member TPICKRELL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamBraveheart View Post
    Well I personally find this Tree thing to be much more constrictive than the existing system and harder to use and understand. I mean I cannot even come close to recreating the characters I have on live now all 30 of them look to be nerfed big time.
    I have a dozen or so toons that I actively run, and they are for the most part coming out even to a bit ahead in the new system. So I'm not sure how all 30 of your toons are getting nerfed. The action point spent limit does put some limitations on it, but you are free to cherry pick from the competing PRE's trees now, which for most of my toons is a net gain.

    For example, my light monks are able to steal some DPS and shadow veil (was shadow fade) from the ninja spy tree. I lose a few things, but that's a significant enough upgrade that they come out ahead in the bargain.

    The only one of mine that I feel has a significant loss is my Monk 12/Rogue 6/Fighter 2, where the action point requirements prevent him from taking all of the basic rogue abiliites that he currently has (spreading core rogue abilities out to 3 trees each with there own point spent requirements is a pain).

    I think we are still too action point constrained due to pre-reqs and points spent in tree, but I don't agree that my most of my toons are getting nerfed in the process.

    EDIT: Note, I rebuilt and ran several toons on lammania to see how they faired in the new system.
    Last edited by TPICKRELL; 08-13-2013 at 01:26 PM.

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