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  1. #1

    Default Shintao Monk strikes no longer count as light moves

    In short, the Shintao monk strikes (Jade Strike and the others in that column) do not appear to count as a light move for finishers anymore. Easy to reproduce, just use those 3 strikes in the column one after the other and you do not get the healing ki light-light-light finisher. The healing curse still appears to work and the strikes do not appear to interrupt your sequence. For example I hit healing curse-healing curse-jade strike-healing curse and the healing ki finisher only popped up after the third healing curse, not after the jade strike as expected.

    I would have bug reported in game but that tool doesn't seem to be working.
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  2. #2
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    This is a known bug. Varg said they would fix it
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  3. #3
    Quality Assurance KookieKobold's Avatar
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    read by QA!

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atremus View Post
    This is a known bug. Varg said they would fix it
    It's launching as-is with the release of Shadowfell Conspiracy.
    Here's why:

    The reason that the Shintao strikes are no longer Light moves is because you are no longer required to be a Light monk (Path of Harmonious Balance) to obtain them.
    In order to make the Shintao strikes into light moves, we'd need to restrict them to Light monks only, which we're currently unwilling to do- we feel making the Shintao Monk tree more restrictive would be a poor design.

    We may change these strikes in a future patch or update if we have a better solution that would not require restricting access to these enhancements, but it won't be happening with Update 19.

  5. #5
    Community Member TPICKRELL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    It's launching as-is with the release of Shadowfell Conspiracy.
    Here's why:

    The reason that the Shintao strikes are no longer Light moves is because you are no longer required to be a Light monk (Path of Harmonious Balance) to obtain them.
    In order to make the Shintao strikes into light moves, we'd need to restrict them to Light monks only, which we're currently unwilling to do- we feel making the Shintao Monk tree more restrictive would be a poor design.

    We may change these strikes in a future patch or update if we have a better solution that would not require restricting access to these enhancements, but it won't be happening with Update 19.
    I guess that makes sense, although is a minor nerf to light monks, since it effectively increases the cool down on the healing finisher.

  6. #6
    Community Member Gadget2775's Avatar
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    Feels like a nerf. Will make it harder to get the 3x light (and 3x dark presuming y'all used the same logic) off. Both light and dark should have multiple ways to trigger those effects. Unless you've also reduced the cool down on FoL and FoD to nothingness...?
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  7. #7
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    It's launching as-is with the release of Shadowfell Conspiracy.
    Here's why:

    The reason that the Shintao strikes are no longer Light moves is because you are no longer required to be a Light monk (Path of Harmonious Balance) to obtain them.
    In order to make the Shintao strikes into light moves, we'd need to restrict them to Light monks only, which we're currently unwilling to do- we feel making the Shintao Monk tree more restrictive would be a poor design.

    We may change these strikes in a future patch or update if we have a better solution that would not require restricting access to these enhancements, but it won't be happening with Update 19.
    Henshin mystic's light without dark / shadows without light ability lets dark monks use a light move, and light monks use a dark move.

    Seems to me like they could be coded to add a check to allow a dark monk to use them too, Better to boost all monks than nerf some.

  8. #8
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    And there we have it. The end of light monks. Healing curse doesnt scale in Epics and the 3x light finisher is gone essentially along with moment of clarity.

    No one runs ToD anymore so no need for Grasp the Earth either.
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    It's launching as-is with the release of Shadowfell Conspiracy.
    Here's why:

    The reason that the Shintao strikes are no longer Light moves is because you are no longer required to be a Light monk (Path of Harmonious Balance) to obtain them.
    In order to make the Shintao strikes into light moves, we'd need to restrict them to Light monks only, which we're currently unwilling to do- we feel making the Shintao Monk tree more restrictive would be a poor design.

    We may change these strikes in a future patch or update if we have a better solution that would not require restricting access to these enhancements, but it won't be happening with Update 19.
    While i understand the r which would only require a featswap when changing enhancements.eason for implementing it this way , please make this a priority to figure out.

  10. #10
    Euro-Founder and Keeper Refugee Dexraven's Avatar
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    Just append this following to their functionality:

    "If you follow the Path of Harmonious Balance, this attack will count as a light move"

    and vice versa for any dark strikes
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    It's launching as-is with the release of Shadowfell Conspiracy.
    Way to make a lair out of Vargouille. At least we know who to blame for this nerf…

  12. #12
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    That's incredibly disappointing to hear, especially when in light of the changes to the curative moves, which rely on the healing finisher in order to be implemented. In fact, I would think that the Shintao Strikes counting as light moves would be even more important, because of those changes to the curatives, as speed in priming the healing finisher would be much more important to, say, remove curse from the party, as a whole.

    The simplest solution I've seen to this, so far, is to add a dark or a light version of the Shintao Strikes. Since the mechanic to make choices for a single enhancement already exists (for example, picking which type of energy you wish to cast with the energy sheathe spell, or picking which curative stance one wants to purchase with AP), I am hoping that this makes coding such a thing much easier--i.e., that someone will actually be able to implement this before the update goes live.

    I do understand wanting to make sure that the update, as a whole, doesn't make the live servers go "explode," but if there is time to implement this before it goes live, I'm fairly sure that all light monk players would greatly appreciate it.
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    Community Member Gadget2775's Avatar
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    With Lama back up I took the time to play with this change some more. It's absolute garbage. The only way to get the 3x positive off is with FoL, which has a 3 second cool down. That means it takes a minimum of 7 seconds (presuming macros to reduce button mashing) in order to get the move off. It doesn't sound like a lot but trying getting into an active combat situation and waiting 7 seconds to get a heal off. That also destroys the stance modifiers...7 seconds to remove curse, blindness, stat damage or disease? Who's going to bother?

    Final thought on 3xP: it reduces overall DPS by preventing all other element-typed strikes while prepping, meaning it's even less likely to be used. Very unhappy with this change.

    Testing with 3x dark revealed a similar situation. Everything in the Ninja tree is now un-typed except Touch of Death. While that reduces the amount of time to approx 4 seconds for the 3xD it's still just plain bad.

    Please please please please retype these special abilities to match the tree they're in.

    Separate thought (probably should be in its own thread) Bring back the lower levels of Void Strike. Replace the elemental weakness with the lower tiers of void so that someone other than a HenshMyst has access to Void Strike.
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  14. #14
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    It's launching as-is with the release of Shadowfell Conspiracy.

    We may change these strikes in a future patch or update if we have a better solution that would not require restricting access to these enhancements, but it won't be happening with Update 19.
    Really? That one bad solution is the only one you can come up with, AND you're basing the lack of fix on that? Boo.

    So you've shortsightedly designed yourself into a corner and now are unwilling or unable to put in the effort to correct your mistake. Boo. It's things like this that cause the bug list to keep growing, to cause new unexpected bugs later on, to stay on the KI list for ages. C'mon guys, be grownups and clean up your messes!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    It's launching as-is with the release of Shadowfell Conspiracy.
    Here's why:

    The reason that the Shintao strikes are no longer Light moves is because you are no longer required to be a Light monk (Path of Harmonious Balance) to obtain them.
    In order to make the Shintao strikes into light moves, we'd need to restrict them to Light monks only, which we're currently unwilling to do- we feel making the Shintao Monk tree more restrictive would be a poor design.

    We may change these strikes in a future patch or update if we have a better solution that would not require restricting access to these enhancements, but it won't be happening with Update 19.
    Just out of curiosity, will the Ninja Spy enhancements that require dark moves but are not modifiers to Touch of Despair (viz. Touch of Death) be made open to light monks, too?

  16. #16
    Community Member DrawingGuy's Avatar
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    Well, both Light and Dark are taking a major hit to their finisher access with this enhancement pass. Dark Monk moves were given over to the Henshin Mystic - but at least their Touch of Death still counts. Light Monks had their Shintao moves stripped of their Light.

    Personally I think the easiest solution is to put a finisher check on the Light and Dark finishing moves... The Shintao moves always count as light, but once you hit 3, the finisher has a check applied to it where the Light finisher only comes up if you have the Light feat. A way to do this may be to attach the Light and Dark finisher moves/combos to the Path feat (along with Curse of the Void and Moment of Clarity) instead of auto-granting the feats. Assuming access to the finishing moves is linked to access to the finishing move feats, it would be a solution that not only takes off concerns of Light/Dark move counters, but also cleans up clutter on the Monk feat list.

    Another solution is as some hinted at (and one that I know you can impliment from what I see of the existing system), is to apply a Light and a Dark move selector for Elemental Words where they are restricted to your path (so there would be 8 options, with the opposite path blocked). This would give more value to Elemental Words (which I already don't think are worth their cost of 2 AP each), and give better access to both paths to their finishers as well as the Void finisher.

  17. #17
    Community Member Gadget2775's Avatar
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    Or.....Remove the timer from FoL and FoD. Leave the ki cost to prevent abuse, but dump the three second timer. Both flavors would be able to activate their 3x move w/o issue.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Gadget2775's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellsien View Post
    Just out of curiosity, will the Ninja Spy enhancements that require dark moves but are not modifiers to Touch of Despair (viz. Touch of Death) be made open to light monks, too?
    Yes. My Light monk could use everything in the Ninja tree if I was willing to give up tier 5 Shinatao. Only thing I forgot to test was the ability to use element, dark, element finishers (since ToD is still keyed as a dark move)
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    It's launching as-is with the release of Shadowfell Conspiracy.
    Here's why:

    The reason that the Shintao strikes are no longer Light moves is because you are no longer required to be a Light monk (Path of Harmonious Balance) to obtain them.
    In order to make the Shintao strikes into light moves, we'd need to restrict them to Light monks only, which we're currently unwilling to do- we feel making the Shintao Monk tree more restrictive would be a poor design.

    We may change these strikes in a future patch or update if we have a better solution that would not require restricting access to these enhancements, but it won't be happening with Update 19.
    Would it be possible to make them count as light/dark moves as appropriate?


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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKeeper1981 View Post
    That's incredibly disappointing to hear, especially when in light of the changes to the curative moves, which rely on the healing finisher in order to be implemented. In fact, I would think that the Shintao Strikes counting as light moves would be even more important, because of those changes to the curatives, as speed in priming the healing finisher would be much more important to, say, remove curse from the party, as a whole.

    The simplest solution I've seen to this, so far, is to add a dark or a light version of the Shintao Strikes. Since the mechanic to make choices for a single enhancement already exists (for example, picking which type of energy you wish to cast with the energy sheathe spell, or picking which curative stance one wants to purchase with AP)


    Either this way with mupltiple enhancements selector or a code for checking FoL feat and consider all Jade/Banish moves as light - every single monk/deep-monk-splash is in dire need of changes for light finisher. Could we get a response from Turbine about adding this to "to do" list?

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