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  1. #1
    Founder Delacroix21's Avatar
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    Default Ways to incentivise old grind mechanisms now dead

    Throughout the life of this game, various grinds for exceptionally rare and powerfull loot were added to the game, which were all one by one forgotten when better loot came around.


    One good change has occurred in DDO: end game loot has become FAR less grindy!


    That is an immensely good change, as the current epics in giant hold should set the tone for the future and I hope we never again see the old seal/shard/scroll/base item system return! The same can be said for ingredient farming raids like Cannith, Shroud, Giantcrafted armor and so on.


    However its sad that new players or for that matter new alts of existing players will never hold in their hands a nice set of Dragontouched armor, a desert epic item, or likely a alchemical weapon. The same is becoming true of event items as once upon a time Crystal Cove was full of groups, while this past week it's been hard to find/form one. So things need to change! We can't keep expecting new players to runs lets say (the shroud) well over 40 times before they craft their first tier 3! Especially when by the time they can, they will allready be level capped with better weapons! The same can be said of Cannith and Dragontouched armor.


    Here is what I suggest
    1. Change old epic loot to the new epic normal/hard/elite system, also allow epic normal/hard to be upgraded via epic tokens
    2. Change old ingredient based raids to drop "ingredient tokens" that can be traded to a vendor for specific ingredients
    3. Change challenges to a similar token system, more tokens for challenges at high levels will solve Cannith issues of certain ingredients only available at certain levels etc. (also reduce challenge ingredient costs by half, current values are way to grindy!)
    4. Change dragontouched armor to a token system to buy specific runes
    Making DDO a better game 1 post at a time!

    Triple EVERYTHING Completionist= Heroic 39/39, Iconic 12/12, Epic 36/36

  2. #2
    Community Member memloch's Avatar
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    Default Shroud is a great system

    I do not totally agree with you. Shroud and GS is one of the best raid loot systems in the game. It is the main reason that you still see it being run so often. If you TR then they are great items to have.

    I would hope that the Dev look at this system and replicated it into a new raid/loot system for epic levels.
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  3. #3
    Community Member stoopid_cowboy's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by memloch View Post

    I would hope that the Dev look at this system and replicated it into a new raid/loot system for epic levels.
    They tried, and FAILED with alchemical weapons. Remember?
    Quote Originally Posted by KookieKobold View Post
    I guess pants can be optional

  4. #4
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Default

    I have no problem with the way shroud crafting works. Every run you get some ingredients. You are always making progress. 40 runs to craft a tier 3? No. It would take almost unimaginable bad luck to not be able to craft a tier 3 after 20 runs, and that's a double shard item. Single shard items you should be able to make after 10 runs or less. Worst case scenario, you can trade for or buy all the ingredients except the shards, and you will pull tons of those in 20 runs.

    Loot lotteries i am not a fan of. Every run you don't get what you want was a waste of time. Only exception is if it is a raid where you plan to go for your 20th to get the big end list. That's how i finally got my torc. Maybe they should put shards and seals on the 20th lists of old epic raids. Or make a trade in the way they do with Sands Scrolls.

    Another thing they could do to make rerunning old content desirable is to put some kind of really nice consumable as an end reward. Something everybody would want, but they would have to keep reacquiring.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    I have no problem with the way shroud crafting works. Every run you get some ingredients. You are always making progress. 40 runs to craft a tier 3? No. It would take almost unimaginable bad luck to not be able to craft a tier 3 after 20 runs, and that's a double shard item. Single shard items you should be able to make after 10 runs or less. Worst case scenario, you can trade for or buy all the ingredients except the shards, and you will pull tons of those in 20 runs.

    Loot lotteries i am not a fan of. Every run you don't get what you want was a waste of time. Only exception is if it is a raid where you plan to go for your 20th to get the big end list. That's how i finally got my torc. Maybe they should put shards and seals on the 20th lists of old epic raids. Or make a trade in the way they do with Sands Scrolls.

    Another thing they could do to make rerunning old content desirable is to put some kind of really nice consumable as an end reward. Something everybody would want, but they would have to keep reacquiring.
    Shroud is great, DO NOT "IMPROVE" THIS RAID! Abbott...I ran about 30 times over 3 lives and got 1 quiver and no Seals. The Cannith Raids can make some great weapons but take forever to get to and give you next to nothing for the trouble. Now the Epics, I still want to make 2 Epic items, the Wolf Whistle and Shocking Gauntlets, so far I have the WW Scroll and I got that from getting three other scrolls and doing the turn in. That system just seems really broken now and most of those items are greatly surpassed by MoTU non-raid items.

  6. #6
    Community Member
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    One good change has occurred in DDO: end game loot has become FAR less grindy!
    I suppose that technically, this is true. There is no end game in DDO currently. One raid, which is already partially outdated, is not an MMO Endgame. And no end game does mean no grind.


    1. Change old epic loot to the new epic normal/hard/elite system, also allow epic normal/hard to be upgraded via epic tokens
    Spending this much time on outdated items seems like an absolute waste. Especially considering how much the DDO team has been shrunk. There just doesn't seem to be any justification to putting this much work into things that are intentionally outdated. A more workable solution may be to change the Shards/Seals/Scrolls to a trade in system, like the one for the Desert scrolls currently.

    2. Change old ingredient based raids to drop "ingredient tokens" that can be traded to a vendor for specific ingredients
    LoB certainly needs some love, but this is not the way to do it. I think that if it had been Endgame for as long as The Shroud was, then it would have been loved by players. As it is, it was kind of a flash and fizzle, with people enjoying it for a very short time, and then largely forgetting about it. It would be nice to see the work that went into it salvaged, as I rather enjoy the raid itself.

    3. Change challenges to a similar token system, more tokens for challenges at high levels will solve Cannith issues of certain ingredients only available at certain levels etc. (also reduce challenge ingredient costs by half, current values are way to grindy!)
    If you think that two runs to get the 600 items that you need is 'too grindy'.... I think that there is an extreme disconnect from online gaming. Two runs of three different quests, through quests that are capped to a specific time, is not very much of an investment for a very useful item. It seems to me that the way to solve the problem of certain ingredients being unable to be earned by high level characters would be to make the Epic Challenges go up to level 30, and to add a 1:1 epic to non-epic version trade in.

    4. Change dragontouched armor to a token system to buy specific runes
    This is a great idea. It would be very nice to be able to trade several collected runes in for one of your choice, rather than just getting a random one in trade.

    The one other thing that I would like to add is the 20x raid completions. Give us a full list. Really, there is nothing more disappointing than getting there and not seeing the one item that was actually wanted!

  7. #7
    Community Member adam1oftheround's Avatar
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    Default Seal, shard, scroll in end reward lists please, at least for the 100th completion

    After you have run the quest on epic 100 times, not having what you came for is a little grindy. Please add 100th completion end reward lists to include seal, shard, seal and so on.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    The same is becoming true of event items as once upon a time Crystal Cove was full of groups, while this past week it's been hard to find/form one.
    You can thank “He who is unnamed, but, is ‘good’ at his job.” for this. He had an opportunity to include Level 24 upgrades (And now Level 28) for the Crystal Cove loot and to offer a way to make the pirate hats cosmetic. But, it was far easier to just stop at 2 new items.
    Things that if Turbine went all EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on, would actually make the game fun again.:
    • Giving us the racial PrE’s we were promised, before rolling out DDOStore™ Enhancement Trees.
    • Fixing physical defense for Rangers and Rogues. It’s ridiculous that you’re better off wearing Heavy Armor and ignoring your innate feats on these classes.
    • Cannith Crafting.
    • Update the named loot to put them on the same system.
    • Fixing the Cannith Challenges so that they can be 6 starred without incredible luck or store bought items.
    • Fixing all challenges to give us decent XP and ingredient returns for the unreasonable time we have to spend in most of them.

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