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  1. #1
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Default Elven Arcane Archer/Palemaster (Post E-Pass)

    Hey all whilst I'm waiting for Lama to grant open access again I've been messing around with a couple builds based on the E-Pass (using this PDF) and I found that Elven AAs get a few cool boosts (I was originally looking into AA for a friend who wanted a Sorcerer AA so I was looking into the E-Pass to try to future proof it)

    1. Elven AAs can now use Dex as a damage stat with longbows...this makes it so your not limited to Bow Str which actually makes a Fighter 2 Splash more appealing than a Ranger 2 Splash (get Manyshot at 10 instead of 12 :P)

    2. Skill: 3% extra shot chance, 3% dodge, and bypass 3% dodge. Nothing to sneeze at

    3. The Skeleton Pet is actually useful now if you have the AP for it (not sure if you would)

    4. Improved Shroud/Bone Armor gives a nice boost to the PM Forms

    5. Neg Heal Amp woot

    6. The entirety of the AA Tree...just so many cool new abilities...except arrow of slaying which only does 250 damage now

    There are two negatives though zombie still sucks and the devs expect us to take the Heal skill to boost our neg energy spellpower now.

    Anyways all that said here's what I've come up with for my Post E-pass PMAA (obviously will change based on E-Pass changes)

    Code:
    Elf Wiz18/Fighter2 (Palemaster/AA)
    
    Dex 18
    Con 12
    Int 18
    
    Skills: UMD, Concen, Spellcraft, Heal, Diplo, Balance
    
    Level Order: Fighter 1, Wizard 2 - 9, Fighter 10, Wizard 11 - 20
    
    1 PBS
    F1 Rapid Shot
    W1 Extend
    3 Precise Shot 
    6 SF: Necro or Enchant (Augment Summoning if can fit PM Pet)
    W7 Empower
    9 GSF: Necro or Enchant (SF: N or E if Augment Summoning is taken)
    F10 Manyshot
    12 Spell Pen
    W12 Maximize
    15 IC: Ranged
    W17 Heighten
    18 Greater Spell Pen
    ED Shiradi (SD is an okish alternative)
    21 Improved Precise Shot 
    24 Epic Spell Pen or Combat Archery
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 07-31-2013 at 11:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    2. DWS has gotten a big buff so there's a few nice things to cherry pick from there with any leftover APs
    How would you add any DWS enhs w/out rgr splash? AFAIK DWS isn't becoming a racial PrE, is it?

    The main stumbling block for these sorts of builds will be the AP requirements. In the alpha, it took 22 APs spent in elf racial tree to pick up Grace + Skill and another 42 if you wanted AA capstone, which only leaves 16 APs for other things. Or were you thinking of spending APs mostly on wiz / PM enhs and only some on AA abilities?

  3. #3
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    How would you add any DWS enhs w/out rgr splash? AFAIK DWS isn't becoming a racial PrE, is it?
    Oh man brain fart the DWS comment was meant for when it was Wiz18/Ranger2 but I chan ged it to Fighter2 but forgot to remove that...there's not much Kensai offers (mostly because it scales well starting with meh abilities and steadily climbing to OMG awesome)
    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    The main stumbling block for these sorts of builds will be the AP requirements. In the alpha, it took 22 APs spent in elf racial tree to pick up Grace + Skill and another 42 if you wanted AA capstone, which only leaves 16 APs for other things. Or were you thinking of spending APs mostly on wiz / PM enhs and only some on AA abilities?
    The majority of AP will be spent in AA to be honest the PM enhancements are fairly meh beyond the form stuff (about 5-11 AP which really sucks because other than heal skill its the only source of Neg Spellpower aside from items)

    - The "Raise" SLA is just a joke
    - Cloak of night is nigh useless because it kills your healing to reduce light damage by the same amount
    - I've never found the SLAs to be useful even on a Single-Class Wiz
    - Deathless Vigor is pretty good but not worth 2 AP for a rear support character
    - Both Vampire and Zombie are still useless but your forced to take them to get Wraith and Lich
    - I doubt the Knight will be useful enough to justify spending up to 15 AP on it...The Skele should have its own AP...its first enhancement choice should be Archer Template, Mage Template or Warrior Template...Wiz Level = Ranger, Wizard (or Sorc) and Fighter lvl respectively as Druid and Arty Pet

    - Bone Armor - This sounds cool but 10 PRR amounts to what...1% reduced damage...wooptido would be a nice boost for a Wiztank though
    - Neg Heal Amp - Yep awesome no need to change
    - Necromancy DC/Improved Shrouding...nice but I won't spend enough AP to get this high besides the tier 5 AA stuff is amazing (even with the nerf to Slayer Arrows)

    Sidenote: I wouldn't mind trying out PM Wiz with 3x Druid Past Lives, Magistrate and Augment Summoning though.

    Also the devs have said their going to be lowering AP costs E-Pass wide based on Feedback...even if they don't I added up what I wanted from the Trees and whilst it barely fit within 80 it fit...IIRC I don't have room for the Pet (which should have its own APs anyways) but I sincerely doubt they've actually managed to make it useful enough.

    I just wish I could get on Lamma so I could actually roll this build up (and see if they have indeed lowered to AP cost) to make 100% sure I'm adding everything correctly but apparently Premium accounts aren't important enough to give feedback on the E-Pass anymore.

    I also really wish They'd shown us Wild Mage imo it would suit the feel of the build better especially once it picks up Shiradi...woot random effects.

    I'm also kinda disappointed with AM too its just so boooooring +1 to this, +1 to that...yawn!!!!

    Actually the same goes for the "Weapon Training" of various races/classes these should add unique abilities relevant to the class/race granting it NOT +1 Attack/Damage...if your going to do a +1 at least make it +1 Crit Range or Multiplier for the top tier (the one before the Endless Fusillade, Grace/Skill, Throw your Weight around -which is useless without a way to make Con be your To-hit-, and worst of all Xen'drik training which doesn't have a special ability...The Halfling Thrower line -short as it is- is the only one that go it right)

    So yeah big downside is very little wiggle room in the enhancement department and you may have to give up some awesome stuff (ie. Improved Shroud, Elven Skill and/or others) but honestly aside from the hit to Neg Energy Spell Power you don't loose much IMO in exchange you get a highly survivable, incredibly versatile build even if its not going to become a FOTM build it will more than pull its weight.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 07-31-2013 at 11:08 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  4. #4
    RangerDangerGrrl Kawai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    ... Elven AAs can now use Dex as a damage stat with longbows...
    actually, ive not seen this anywhere, through five or six diff ranged builds, including pure/multi/elven etc
    ive seen Dex for damage with Melee, but not with Longbows.
    which tree are you finding this in?
    TKSK - Thelanis ("Best Server" -NyTimes).

  5. #5
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kawai View Post
    actually, ive not seen this anywhere, through five or six diff ranged builds, including pure/multi/elven etc
    ive seen Dex for damage with Melee, but not with Longbows.
    which tree are you finding this in?
    It's in the Elf and Half-Elf trees it's called grace and grants Dex to damage for either Longbows, Rapiers and Longswords or Shortbows, Scimitars and Falchions. If you don't have access to Lammania right now this PDF is pretty updated to the most recent public Lama build for the E-Pass.

    If you DO have access to Lamannia and these abilities have been removed please DO NOT tell me as it will get you in trouble as anything in the closed beta is under an NDA but please do submit a bug report for missing abilities if this is so.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 07-31-2013 at 11:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  6. #6
    RangerDangerGrrl Kawai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    It's in the Elf and Half-Elf trees.
    double bleah
    Last edited by Kawai; 08-01-2013 at 12:41 AM.
    TKSK - Thelanis ("Best Server" -NyTimes).

  7. #7
    RangerDangerGrrl Kawai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    It's in the Elf and Half-Elf trees it's called grace and grants Dex to damage for either Longbows, Rapiers and Longswords or Shortbows, Scimitars and Falchions...
    bleaaa
    Last edited by Kawai; 08-01-2013 at 12:40 AM.
    TKSK - Thelanis ("Best Server" -NyTimes).

  8. #8
    RangerDangerGrrl Kawai's Avatar
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    confusing as to what we can and cant chat about :|
    so best to chat about nothing
    TKSK - Thelanis ("Best Server" -NyTimes).

  9. #9
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kawai View Post
    confusing as to what we can and cant chat about :|
    so best to chat about nothing
    Everything in the PDF is Public knowledge and free to talk about just cant discuss any changes in the new "Closed" lama build

    Quote Originally Posted by Kawai View Post
    bleaaa
    Heh I can't tell if this is disapproval of the ability or what :P Personally I like it and think its very flavourful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  10. #10
    RangerDangerGrrl Kawai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Everything in the PDF is Public knowledge and free to talk about just cant discuss any changes in the new "Closed" lama build



    Heh I can't tell if this is disapproval of the ability or what :P Personally I like it and think its very flavourful.
    well, thats the problem, as im seeing something totally different than you on Lamm...
    would hardly disapprove of something so yummy
    TKSK - Thelanis ("Best Server" -NyTimes).

  11. #11
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kawai View Post
    well, thats the problem, as im seeing something totally different than you on Lamm...
    would hardly disapprove of something so yummy
    Any idea when the "Closed Beta" is becoming "Open Beta"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  12. #12
    RangerDangerGrrl Kawai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Any idea when the "Closed Beta" is becoming "Open Beta"?
    no, but cant wait. want 2 get meh friendz/guildeez in here soon.
    TKSK - Thelanis ("Best Server" -NyTimes).

  13. #13
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kawai View Post
    well, thats the problem, as im seeing something totally different than you on Lamm...
    would hardly disapprove of something so yummy
    Hmmm...hopefully saying whats "NOT" there doesn't count as breaking the NDA....if they've taken away my Halflings awesome Throwing weapon abilities I'm gonna murder something (sorry unrelated rant lol)

    I really wish they would just leave Lama running the Dojo is great for seeing if build a works...I mean Ron's planner is great...like REALLY great but nothing can beat physical testing.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 08-01-2013 at 11:44 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  14. #14
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kawai View Post
    no, but cant wait. want 2 get meh friendz/guildeez in here soon.
    Me neither I mean I could care less about the new Forgotten realms content (still waiting on the devs to something Eberron related...like say Epic Delera's or Shan-to-Kor) but I really want to see the updated E-Pass so I can give proper feedback on what they did right and what they did wrong before its too late. I don't me to sound pompous but I play really weird off-beat builds so I have a feeling I'd run into a few "Bugs" others would never experience.....but apparently Premium players are second class citizens 'round here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  15. #15
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kawai View Post
    well, thats the problem, as im seeing something totally different than you on Lamm...
    would hardly disapprove of something so yummy
    Uhhh...I hopped on Lama a few times during open beta and Elven Grace is still there. Hell even morninglord gets it for some dumb reason
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  16. #16
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Just a couple of comments:

    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    - Cloak of night is nigh useless because it kills your healing to reduce light damage by the same amount
    True, but a properly geared and spec-ed PM’s biggest weakness is light damage, by far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    - I've never found the SLAs to be useful even on a Single-Class Wiz
    Honestly, I only poked around with the SLAs on Lamm. That being said, I get more mileage out of PM SLAs than I EVER did those available to an AM. In fact, you can probably do way more damage in a PUG with Necrotic Bolt / Blast in a PUG where someone has grabbed aggro (and your death auras going) than many of your SP-draining spells.

    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    - Both Vampire and Zombie are still useless but your forced to take them to get Wraith and Lich
    Yeah, I’m not happy about that as well, though I disagree profoundly with Zombie being “useless.” On a pure caster (meaning no melee), it’s a great stepping-stone.


    As for the rest, have you considered going elf for PM and the longbow proficiency, and then either crafting arrows or just purchasing them (like sliver arrows)? With decent crafting levels and augments, you can create a bow with 2 damage types, and a stat damager, and then a third damage type with the ammo.

    I crafted something like a Shocking Burst bow of Puncturing , added a good augment (epic shard), and then keep a quiver of crafted / specialty arrows. Likewise, you can summon Flame Arrows.

    I mean, if you’re looking for a rear support toon, you’ve got TONS of ranged options with spells, and then go second-rate on the ranged melee.

    However, if you want to go AA first, you might want to take PM up to Wraith for the defensive benefits (incorp, self-healing, and fortification), then push AA via the elf trees.

  17. #17
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    A properly geared and spec-ed PM’s biggest weakness is light damage, by far.
    Yes but their healing comes from neg energy (ONLY neg energy) and since its lowered by an equal amount the result is either a wash or more likely a loss since not all incoming damage will be light based. The only way CoN would become useful is if a Tier 5 ability removed the penalty to neg healing. (could fit easily as part of improved shrouding)

    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Honestly, I only poked around with the SLAs on Lamm. That being said, I get more mileage out of PM SLAs than I EVER did those available to an AM. In fact, you can probably do way more damage in a PUG with Necrotic Bolt / Blast in a PUG where someone has grabbed aggro (and your death auras going) than many of your SP-draining spells.
    The big issue with the PM SLAs is any form of deathward, deathblock or those blanket immunites some mobs have will make enemies immune to them and unfortunately that's alot of mobs. The SLAs should have their requirement of the previous SLA removed, than shift the bolt and blast down a single tier and have the tier 5 SLA be Harm.

    Not saying that AM is any better, I actually hate AM its incredibly boring +1 to this, +1 to that nothing interesting just math...at least PMs abilities are interesting even the ones that suck (ie. The raise zombie is a cool idea just executed horribly)

    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Yeah, I’m not happy about that as well, though I disagree profoundly with Zombie being “useless.” On a pure caster (meaning no melee), it’s a great stepping-stone.
    Oh yeah its useful for levels 6-12 (or 6-9 if your prefer to level as a vamp) for a normal caster and I'm pretty sure it has no effect on ranged weapons either BUT it is still a waste of APs since your forced to take them to get to Wraith and Lich...whereas Wraith still actually has some use once you have Lich even if its just as a FF toggle and/or the bonus to MS and Balance (between high dex, wraith and and an item both these skills get you to only 3 shy of actually putting full points into them...mix MS with invis and you've got a shadow wizard)

    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    You might want to take PM up to Wraith for the defensive benefits (incorp, self-healing, and fortification), then push AA via the elf trees.
    Thats pretty much the plan.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 09-04-2013 at 03:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

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