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  1. #1
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Default Okay time for a bad group vent... bring the popcorn for the surprise ending.

    So I see a CitW, and try to join, after a a couple mins and no response I send a tell half joking "what you don't like me or something" at which point he accepts. I'm on my Bladeforged FvS and the party leader who is talking about something when I join. Immediately asks me if I heal, minor red flag but okay. "your build is a little odd" okay I do have Pali levels, maybe he doesn't know what Divine Grace is, another bad sign, so to be reassuring I say I've had no problems healing the last 7 CitW's I've done on that toon, a little SP tight only 2500 because I'm not yet fully geared and the splash (so I am okay with drinking pots to compensate), but I've solo healed Shroud which while not a big deal anymore is still something and some EE's.

    He also says something about having had issues with the last healer... This should have been a big flashing red escape sequence beacon..

    He goes back to what he was talking about, apparently just having failed a LOB. He talks about how everyone was just doing too much damage for him to keep LOB's Aggro which isn't exactly unusual but was probably not a good sign either

    So we get into the first part of the Lolth beat down and he dies, now I admit I was healing someone else and trying to avoid getting mana drained so I didn't have him and I guess the other FvS didn't either. Stuff happens. Between the healing curses and the line of sight issues while avoiding mana drains it's really rough keeping a block free line of sight to everyone in the melee pile ESPECIALLY people who get right up on Lolth's belly. So he gets raised and he and someone else both also promptly die again. "Really?!" he says. he's dieing faster than the 500hp rogue. I should mention he's a fighter with over a 1000hps. Now my heals are hitting him for 500-ish so it's got some amp, (hit monks and Humans often for 800+). So I don't know what the deal is. Massive threat gear and no aggro management on a toon with no damage mitigation maybe? So I am spamming heals already in the very first part of the raid which is a well known SP pot chugger. But doesn't usually require the level of intensive mass cures that say a harry beat down does. So I proceed to chug pots. I say something about that after pot maybe #4. and I make a mental note of the other FvS's SP number. He did cast some masses, and spot heals but it seemed like I was doing the brunt of the work,. Naturally watching bars you tend to notice when the other FvS SP number barely moves. ESPECIALLY when you've already cast two heals on that FvS. So after a rough spot of mass healing and a near wipe, followed by raising at the arch (where we seemed to linger longer than I'm used to) we start the run, and during this many more deaths, I tell people that I can't heal people when we're spread out in the spiral ramps and to stick with the leader, at which point I expected the leader to chime in with "and don't stop to kill trash".

    The thing is I can't recall in maybe 20 odd completions across three characters ever having such a hard time with the trash mobs during the run, people were stopping to beat on them, and no one was telling people to keep moving. Which is something you get used to hearing during the run, and not hearing it is kind of odd/out of place.

    Then the leader decided we would drop a shrine with the hand still after us, maybe half way through the run, under an overhang I guess he thought was safe. At this point I am 7 pots in, and the other FvS has gone from approximately 300-ish SP to 260 SP... All hell breaks lose when the hand starts massacring our little ill advised shrine encampment, the leader says "oh that's never happened before" (so like he has dropped shrines during the first part of the run before? Never seen anyone do that ever). So because we're getting beat on by the hand again he tells everyone to run... On the way up the next spiral he dies again, and his guildy dies and they get left behind. because of this at some point we all stop and kill trash and apparently safe we regroup. Not before I've chugged my 8th pot and noted that the other FvS is still sitting at 260sp, which drops to 210 as I see him self heal. (maybe this guy knows something I didn't know, as in "this cluster isn't worth drinking pots for")

    During this the "leader" has been asking his Guildie "hey you see my Tells" repeatedly (seriously like 3 or 4 times he asks), naturally this is suspicious, ham handedly suspicious, if you're using voice to get someones attention about a tell... it's pretty obvious you're talking behind peoples backs. In voice he asks that guildy to recall out and go get his healer and then tells all the casters: might as well release and get SP and rebuff"... Honestly I am thinking of politely dropping group at this point. I also kind of wonder if they are going to kick the other FvS as soon as he releases (maybe why they were talking in tells), to be fair they didn't ask him if he healed when he joined.

    Only they didn't kick him, they kicked me, and thus my vent... 8 pots in the first 15 minutes of CitW (this is about as many pots as I've ever used in an entire CitW completion on either FvS let alone half way through the first part, and usually no where near that many) and they kicked me. I can't adequately express how hard it is to take that from someone who was leading the most inept CitW, no scratch that RAID I've ever been in. After sending a few angry tells (mostly it's shocking being kicked by a group leader that clearly needed every drop of healing he could get), I have to admit, it would have been a worse punishment had he not kicked me.

    TLDR: Cool story bro; next time drop the moment someone mentions the "bad healer" they just dealt with in a previous quest.
    Last edited by Ironclans_evil_twin; 07-31-2013 at 04:41 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post

    Only they didn't kick him, they kicked me, and thus my vent... 8 pots in the first 15 minutes of CitW (this is about as many pots as I've ever used in an entire CitW completion on either FvS let alone half way through the first part, and usually no where near that many) and they kicked me.
    TLDR: Cool story bro; next time drop the moment someone mentiones the "bad healer" they just dealt with in a previous quest.

    Hmm. I don't think I have even used a pot in CitW on my FvS. (Was this EE? I have yet to run an EE). True, I got 3400+ SP, but then again I never go down to 0.
    I do use divine wrath though, and that is a huge SP saver.

    Anyway, yea, I think you understand by yourself already that this was a doomed raid. Many players don't yet realize that the game has evolved to the point where every character should have some self healing. AT LEAST cacoon. Even barbs should have that. Healers have more or less stopped being babysitters. There are some EEs where I go 80% healer, but on EH raids, I am mostly spot healing and concentrating on DPS.

    Don't sweat the idiots.
    ~~ Adrunil - Rogue. Halfling, big guy you can't miss him. ~~
    ~~ Adrunel - Monkcher. (Moncher?) ~~
    Robodoc - FvS Evoker-Healer. Post 19: Ended up LRing into 13/7 forc
    Orien server.

  3. #3
    Community Member darthhento's Avatar
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    Oddly enough, I have a 18/2monk FvS with 3,7k SP and I never get any complaints about not healing. Even though it's a raid-healing melee FvS.
    =$==$==$==$==$==$==$==ORIEN==$==$==$==$==$==$==$=
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  4. #4
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Wow, I would have ripped him a new a*****e.

    I hate it when noobs are arrogant and don't realize they're noobs.

  5. #5

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    I did notice defender classes (or ppl in sentinel not sure) get hit a lot more in Lolth beatdown.

    The leader was rude and must be a newbie (how hard is it to keep agro with epic destiny abilites?). He seams to be in search for that group of uber elitists that will carry him and his guildies trough the quests nice and easy.
    NESALOMLJIVI, Thelanis

  6. #6
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    He seems to be in search for that group of uber elitists that will carry him and his guildies through the quests nice and easy.
    I hate people like this.
    I mean, I don't mind the odd group of Newbs who get in over their heads, and admit it! In fact I find it refreshing to know that something could very well go wrong, and it may be up to me, or the other vets in the party to keep things running smoothly if something does. It makes things interesting and fun. And I don't mind carrying anyone through content. It's why I open most EEpugs I post for levels 20-25 and take the first 5 people to hit it. You get some really interesting group set ups that way.

    As long as people are up front about the fact they're not optimized for the content they're running but are obviously trying their best I'm 100% fine with that.

    But it drives me crazy when I see someone join a raid/group and purposely do the least amount they can, expecting to be carried through everything by better players. It might not annoy me as much if it wasn't usually these same people who get b*tchy about how other people play their toons, run quests, or what they loot.

    These people should be rounded up, and shot. In.The.Face. Multiple times. At least until the point gets across.
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
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    "And we learn, as we age; We've learned nothing! And my body still aches."

  7. #7
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    Though I've only done en and eh citw's, I've never had to drink pots on my 18 fvs 2 fighter. Of course, I mostly am just spamming renewal the whole time, so that helps a c r a p ton. I think I've had the good fortune of always finding good groups off the lfm panel, too. Again that helps.

    However, given the experience I've had so far, I don't think I'd ever consider using a pot in that raid unless I was running with people I know. I'm a greedy bastard when it comes to pots.

    but anyway, nice story. I always like reading stories like this. I find them interesting. Once I saw how horrible the leader and group was, if I had used any pots at all, I'd stop using them. If someone questioned me, I would say I already used all my pots, and that if he wanted healing because he couldn't help but die every few seconds he should give me some pots. If no pots then I'd just pike the group until it wiped and then leave.

    Using pots when I can see the group is destined to wipe is beyond comprehension. Because, the kicker is, if you complete a "tough" raid, people are all like thank you and whatnot and some offer pots. However, if you blow through 20 pots in a raid but it wipes, people are all ****y and almost never offer the healer pots. So, if something looks like a train wreck, I refuse to use pots anymore. Yes, I know, self fulfilling prophecy, but I've been burned too many times to waste pots on something that has failure written all over it.

  8. #8
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    I hate people like this.

    These people should be rounded up, and shot. In.The.Face. Multiple times. At least until the point gets across.
    Like what happens to loth at the end of citw? Time for a deluge!!!!

    Oh well OP you wasted 8 sp pots and 15 minutes of your life you will never get back.......I guess they did kind of do you a favour by booting you, though it was rude imagine the chaos that group would have at the end?

  9. #9
    Community Member Extispex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    Only they didn't kick him, they kicked me, and thus my vent... 8 pots in the first 15 minutes of CitW (this is about as many pots as I've ever used in an entire CitW completion on either FvS let alone half way through the first part, and usually no where near that many) and they kicked me. I can't adequately express how hard it is to take that from someone who was leading the most inept CitW, no scratch that RAID I've ever been in. After sending a few angry tells (mostly it's shocking being kicked by a group leader that clearly needed every drop of healing he could get), I have to admit, it would have been a worse punishment had he not kicked me.

    TLDR: Cool story bro; next time drop the moment someone mentions the "bad healer" they just dealt with in a previous quest.

    I have to agree with you. He probably did you a favour by kicking you out. From the sound of it he saved you from a lot more grief and pot-usage. Getting kicked from a group can be infuriating, but in this case staying would probably have been worse.

  10. #10
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Like what happens to loth at the end of citw? Time for a deluge!!!!

    Oh well OP you wasted 8 sp pots and 15 minutes of your life you will never get back.......I guess they did kind of do you a favour by booting you, though it was rude imagine the chaos that group would have at the end?
    +1~ Made me Lol.

    And agreed, OP. While it was rude, they did you a favor by booting you. In a very backhanded way, but just imagine the number of pots it would have taken to get through the end fight...

    While the first fight can be a pain with the legs throwing people off, the end fight is the doom for any group I've found. People just don't listen.
    Hell I had a run a couple days ago when we spent 5 minutes going over the exact plan for the dn fight, in which we repeated "Do not go to the Necro!" over voice and in chat about 8 times... Guess what happened the second we got to the end island? Four people broke left and killed the necro.

    [Insert Batman "Some men just want to see the world Burn." gif here]
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
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    Guild: Fors Fortis;Guild of Won, & VENOM @ Argo
    "And we learn, as we age; We've learned nothing! And my body still aches."

  11. #11
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Shouldnt have used pots, could just wrote I dont have any pots and see if they would give you any.

  12. #12
    Community Member KhellendrosUK's Avatar
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    I had a similar experience in my first (and only) PuG FoT on my healer. There was very little leadership to speak of so I was running all over the place to heal people who seemed to be attacking a single mob each. Even with cocoon it was a struggle to reach people. The other ‘healers’ SPs barely moved where I was supping pots for fun to try to make up for it. (Un)fortunately I lost connection which is very rare apart from when I’m entering an explorer area. I fully expected to come back to find everyone dead and gone but it seemed the other healer had woken up and managed to keep most of the group alive. He then fell right back asleep again when I loaded back in so I ended up supping 10 pots before the leader called it. When I mentioned that I’d already used 10 pots the other healer said “Really, you were gone most of the raid?!” Firstly, that wasn’t true, I was gone for a few minutes and, secondly, ***?! I used all those pots because he/she wasn’t healing and there was no co-ordination to keep people from being spread out all over the map!TLDR - People are very quick to blame healers for other people’s mistakes.

  13. #13
    Community Member Miow's Avatar
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    I wonder who they blamed on the second run....certainly not his guildie

  14. #14
    Community Member KhellendrosUK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KhellendrosUK View Post
    I had a similar experience in my first (and only) PuG FoT on my healer. There was very little leadership to speak of so I was running all over the place to heal people who seemed to be attacking a single mob each. Even with cocoon it was a struggle to reach people. The other ‘healers’ SPs barely moved where I was supping pots for fun to try to make up for it. (Un)fortunately I lost connection which is very rare apart from when I’m entering an explorer area. I fully expected to come back to find everyone dead and gone but it seemed the other healer had woken up and managed to keep most of the group alive. He then fell right back asleep again when I loaded back in so I ended up supping 10 pots before the leader called it. When I mentioned that I’d already used 10 pots the other healer said “Really, you were gone most of the raid?!” Firstly, that wasn’t true, I was gone for a few minutes and, secondly, ***?! I used all those pots because he/she wasn’t healing and there was no co-ordination to keep people from being spread out all over the map!TLDR - People are very quick to blame healers for other people’s mistakes.
    *Sigh* For some reason this 'awesome' forum took all the spacing out of my post and it just hangs when I tried to edit it.

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    Community Member KhellendrosUK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miow View Post
    I wonder who they blamed on the second run....certainly not his guildie
    I wonder if it was actually the same leader and his guildie 'healer' that I came across...

  16. #16
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Your first warning light should've lit at LFM pannel. Who runs citws...

    Anyway in 2 citw pugs I was in on my cleric/ftr/wizard build (more weird than 18fvs/2pal for sure) I didn't had much problems with my 1,750 mana (that's right, its bellow two K, no mispelling).

    When entering a raid I'm chcecking everyone's selected destiny. If they're not at lvl5, its a very bad sign.
    If you want to get XP, farm ID or HotRB, like all of us did. Don't cry that its boring, what's really boring is having to waste 40 minutes in web or fot because party DPS is smaller because there are 6 barbs in magister 1.

  17. #17
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    I always check who is in the group, if I dont know anyone Im not joining.

  18. #18
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    See I think you're all looking at it all the wrong way. Does no one feel sorry for the leader who keeps running into bad healers at every turn? I mean here's this guy who is a questing savant and no doubt leads the kill count in every quest he does and every time he runs a quest with a healer (which is every quest because who can run a quest without one) the stupid healer keeps letting him die. Can you imagine how frustrating that is for him? I mean is there not one good healer who can keep him alive so he can quest the way he wants to?

    Seriously though. Maybe one day he'll realize that maybe it's not everyone else who's the problem..........

  19. #19
    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    Only they didn't kick him, they kicked me,...
    In the beginning days of DDO it was often utterly hilarious. I have so many stories like this one I couldn't count them all. And even now it still occurs. The other day I (on my spellsinger bard) and a pugmate had completed most of Gianthold Tor (epic hard) without any other help or hireling as other people slowly joined - and because I keep spellsong vigor running 24/7, I probably used more total spell points for healing alone in that short-man than any favored soul in the game would have available without pots. After the fifth person had joined and the quest was complete, one of the three latecomers piped up asking if anyone had a healer hireling...

    The arrogance of people playing DDO is astounding. What the leader did (instead of getting a clue) is he auto-associated the pure favored soul (assuming he was pure) with a perhaps slightly higher mana pool with ALL the healing that was done in the raid, and assumed that your contribution was zero. It was just too hard to pay attention to the combat log (or the 3D graphics) to figure out what was actually going on.

    It's bigotry, hard-headedness, and arrogance at its finest. Welcome to DDO. Beware the wildlife.

  20. #20
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post

    When entering a raid I'm chcecking everyone's selected destiny. If they're not at lvl5, its a very bad sign.
    If you want to get XP, farm ID or HotRB, like all of us did. Don't cry that its boring, what's really boring is having to waste 40 minutes in web or fot because party DPS is smaller because there are 6 barbs in magister 1.
    lol I was in a hard citw and I saw some melees in Magister and stuff and I thought ***? I will go into **** destinies for easy raids like EH von5-6. CITW is kinda easy but especially on hard I find having your best dps destiny can help make it faster, especially when you have the odd person who just doesn't listen and you have to kill way more trash than you need to.

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