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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimah View Post
    Its hard to comprehend that someone would play this game more than a week or so and not take the time to open internet explorer, go to google and type "DDO Wizard Builds" and read the discussions over the last 7 or so years. Even if you just choose to look at a recent build and read the Wizard Wiki it would put you on solid footing.

    Thats not to mention the countless newbie guides pople have written over the years.

    A new game there is some excuse, an old game like this has about all the information you could possibly need out there at the tip of your fingers for you to get.
    Why is that hard to comprehend?

    I don't think I have ever google, etc. searched any game ever except, maybe to find out where to download it and I'm actually into the nuts and bolts of games. Most of the casual types that I play with would walk away from any game that they thought that level of dedication was needed to play.

    While I fully understand why a serious gamer might do that sort of thing, from what I have seen, most who play aren't nearly that serious about the game.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Most of the casual types that I play with would walk away from any game that they thought that level of dedication was needed to play.
    When did taking a little time to actually learn about what you are doing become some high "level of dedication?" When did spending 10 minutes, half an hour, an hour of your life to improve your knowledge become something so reviled as to walk away from an otherwise enjoyable game before you would do it?

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTastyHead View Post
    When did taking a little time to actually learn about what you are doing become some high "level of dedication?" When did spending 10 minutes, half an hour, an hour of your life to improve your knowledge become something so reviled as to walk away from an otherwise enjoyable game before you would do it?
    Again, different people have different ideas of fun. This is something that can change within the same person due to mood, even. Sometimes school can be fun, but fun shouldn't ever be school.
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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCoaly View Post
    For some classes the lack of indication does prove the absence of a prestige.

    .
    I find it funny you would list out all this mess to someone thats been playing since launch...
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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTastyHead View Post
    When did taking a little time to actually learn about what you are doing become some high "level of dedication?" When did spending 10 minutes, half an hour, an hour of your life to improve your knowledge become something so reviled as to walk away from an otherwise enjoyable game before you would do it?
    When someone decided it was to much trouble. I'm guessing they would either already be enjoying the game, so don't see a need to do so. Or would have already decided the game wasn't enjoyable, so see no point in doing so.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    When someone decided it was to much trouble. I'm guessing they would either already be enjoying the game, so don't see a need to do so. Or would have already decided the game wasn't enjoyable, so see no point in doing so.
    At some point in time, if a player is enjoying the game, they will inevitably want to understand a bit more of the detail. And it's one of the best things about this game is that we do have detail worth understanding. Knowing how to build your character, understanding the strengths and weaknesses of the classes, understanding different item effects and how gear affects your build, basic party tactics and how a bit of thought makes a huge difference to how smoothly a quest runs. There's lots of stuff to get to grips with. Over a period of time. Understanding it all on day one isn't possible or necessary.

    The new enhancement UI will make some of this a bit more accessible for new players and that can't be a bad thing.

    If a player gets bit by the DDO bug, but refuses to make any effort to learn some of the detail, then they'll never achieve their full potential and get the satisfaction of knowing that they have improved.

    Trying to dumb the game down to the lowest common denominator is what will ultimately kill the game for me at least. Whereas trying to find better ways of making the detail more accessible (complete revamp of the character sheet for example) is what will help people get to grips with the richness that we have here, that is lacking in 99% of the other games out there.

  7. #87
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Why is that hard to comprehend?

    I don't think I have ever google, etc. searched any game ever except, maybe to find out where to download it and I'm actually into the nuts and bolts of games. Most of the casual types that I play with would walk away from any game that they thought that level of dedication was needed to play.

    While I fully understand why a serious gamer might do that sort of thing, from what I have seen, most who play aren't nearly that serious about the game.
    If you enjoy that type of thing and bumbling your way through it all then by all means...otherwise, I think its fairly common for a gamer to do a little bit of research. I dont mean write an essay, I mean read for 5 minutes.

    Most people who play this game for any amount of time will evntually ask themselves..."why am I gimp compared to so many others?" Or "where do I get xxx gear to use".

    All of that information is just a matter of keystrokes away. If you are not willing to put that time in then I personally wouldnt want to play with you. Not you in particular but those with that mindset. If you are happy not knowing *** you are doing then so am I.....and I'll give you the space you need to do that

  8. #88
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    Again, different people have different ideas of fun. This is something that can change within the same person due to mood, even. Sometimes school can be fun, but fun shouldn't ever be school.

    My point remains the same, if someone ddoesnt care to spend 5 minutes doing a bit of research then thats great and I'll leave them to their gaming.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimah View Post
    My point remains the same, if someone ddoesnt care to spend 5 minutes doing a bit of research then thats great and I'll leave them to their gaming.
    Which is probably best for all concerned. Personally, I don't care enough to worry about it and run pretty much daily with someone who is as likely to have the majority of their APs unspent as not, only has PREs on 2 of a dozen or so characters and is fun to play with.

  10. #90
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inventoryisfull View Post
    Both of them are max level, both do not have prestige enhancements.

    Noticed them as they turn up to some pug raids... then over a week later I run into both again in a pug, same situation, no prestiges, extremely gimp.

    How does this even happen?
    Quote Originally Posted by inventoryisfull View Post
    I did mean PrEs.
    Alright, I don't want to be the one to ruin your tirade but the PrEs are all undergoing massive restructure. Maybe these two players knew the enhancement pass was coming and just figured they'd wait it out.

    Or, maybe, they are intentionally challenging themselves to see what they can achieve with a more limited character. I've done that (famously or infamously, depending on your POV I suppose) and many other players do so as well in order to make a challenge out of things.

    But, mostly, in the big scheme of things how and why does it matter? Did you manage to complete the raid you were on? Sounds like it if someone was looting a napkin. So if you completed what's the problem?

    Not to worry though. With the new system it is practically impossible to miss the prestige enhancements as people will have trouble spending all of their AP in the racial trees.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamkatt View Post
    I find it funny you would list out all this mess to someone thats been playing since launch...
    I listed the ways that prestiges present themselves in response to Impaqt's question:

    "How exactly can you tell they have no prestige enhancements?"

    I don't think Impaqt's question was funny. Maybe Impaqt never bothered to look. "Since Launch" doesn't preclude someone from not looking. I don't think Impaqt's question was funny, but if my response was interpreted in such a way as to imply so, I apologize.

    Others in this thread have indicated that they are not aware that most prestiges can be identified.

    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    there is really no way to "prove" that no prestige exists.
    This is not true.

    For most cases, it is possible to determine directly or derive indirectly whether or not a character has invested in prestige enhancements.

    For some cases, there may be no way to prove that no prestige exists, however a character that has taken a prestige is functionally the same as one that has not taken the prestige if, through non-use they do not reveal its existence.


    None of this changes the fact that if the OP doesn't like the way someone is playing, complaining about it here is not going to solve anything.


    Regarding "all this mess" - if you've got a more tidy format, please share it.

  12. #92
    Community Member taospark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    Wow....I didn't realize we had police in this game....You see, this is the problem with gaming nowadays. Some people, like the OP, see it as some job, some place where you have to have things a certain way. Then others, like the two "noobs" see games as they should be...something fun that you don't have to take too seriously. I have five characters (out of ten) that have no pre. Am I a noob?

    Maybe. Maybe I am. But here is the bigger issue.....Do I care? No. Because I enjoy the hell out of them. And you know what, you can just get the hell over it
    See, everyone says that until that bad player happens to be a vital healer or caster in a raid and their incompetence destroys half an hour of your work.

  13. #93
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    I once built a human ranger with no Pre, or AA feats. All my points went into dexterity. And kited everything around with a terrible bow. Or dual wielded peshes without any cleaves. I wasnt proficient in to disguise my terrible pew pew-ing.
    Made lotz of frandz.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by taospark View Post
    See, everyone says that until that bad player happens to be a vital healer or caster in a raid and their incompetence destroys half an hour of your work.
    The trouble with this is that the failure likely upsets them a lot less than it does you, so they are not likely to be devastated enough to care.

    What to one player is half an hour of "work" ruined by the outcome. To another is half an hour of entertainment, regardless of how it turns out. For the raid will still be there to try again.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    The trouble with this is that the failure likely upsets them a lot less than it does you, so they are not likely to be devastated enough to care.

    What to one player is half an hour of "work" ruined by the outcome. To another is half an hour of entertainment, regardless of how it turns out. For the raid will still be there to try again.
    One person's casual indifference and detached aloofness is another person's incompetent noobishness and mindless refusal to be taught anything.

    So long as that person joins a raid and does no harm, then it's all good. But if they are reckless and stupid and bring a world of unnecessary grief then they deserve to be squelched and blacklisted regardless of which type they are.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    One person's casual indifference and detached aloofness is another person's incompetent noobishness and mindless refusal to be taught anything.

    So long as that person joins a raid and does no harm, then it's all good. But if they are reckless and stupid and bring a world of unnecessary grief then they deserve to be squelched and blacklisted regardless of which type they are.
    You are free to blacklist anyone you choose, for whatever reason you like. Not playing the game as you would have them play it is as good a reason as any I guess. But actually expecting people to log in to enhance your entertainment at the expense of their own isn't something I would expect is going to happen.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    You are free to blacklist anyone you choose, for whatever reason you like. Not playing the game as you would have them play it is as good a reason as any I guess. But actually expecting people to log in to enhance your entertainment at the expense of their own isn't something I would expect is going to happen.
    Expecting people not to go out of their way to reduce the entertainment level of another 11 players in a raid isn't an unreasonable expectation. Wouldn't you agree?

    Nobody expects everyone to be uber. But it's not unreasonable to expect a raid group to work to the same goal of completing the raid.

  18. #98
    Community Member mobrien316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    One person's casual indifference and detached aloofness is another person's incompetent noobishness and mindless refusal to be taught anything.

    So long as that person joins a raid and does no harm, then it's all good. But if they are reckless and stupid and bring a world of unnecessary grief then they deserve to be squelched and blacklisted regardless of which type they are.
    There's a difference between being reckless and stupid and being casual.

    A casual player might decide he's just going to level up whenever it comes, use whatever gear he finds, and not worry too much about pre's or which enhancements he takes. As long as he is not rude and does not deliberately grief anyone, I would welcome him into any party of mine. Taking a more casual approach to the game does not indicate recklessness or stupidity.

    I would vastly prefer such a casual player over the one who whines about every death, who berates anyone who makes a mistake, and who denigrates other players over their build or gear.
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  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodspeed View Post
    Wouldn't English be used to refer to a people as a person where english would be used to refer to a language as a common word?
    If English is used as a noun then it has to start with a capital letter as Tscheuss correctly pointed out. However if used as an adjective eg. "english tart" then lower case is assumedly correct! Anyhow, I was just lambasting the spellchecker for prancing round like a pony on crack, hence the reason I was looking for my cricket bat... so I could smack that pony. Now, when you take into consideration that "smacking the pony" sounds extremely sexual, it all becomes a *lot* more complicated. More complicated than just basic literacy; we're talking... Freud; and you know how crazy he was.

    *thwack* FOUR!!

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aolas View Post
    If English is used as a noun then it has to start with a capital letter as Tscheuss correctly pointed out. However if used as an adjective eg. "english tart" then lower case is assumedly correct! Anyhow, I was just lambasting the spellchecker for prancing round like a pony on crack, hence the reason I was looking for my cricket bat... so I could smack that pony. Now, when you take into consideration that "smacking the pony" sounds extremely sexual, it all becomes a *lot* more complicated. More complicated than just basic literacy; we're talking... Freud; and you know how crazy he was.

    *thwack* FOUR!!
    I have the advantage of still being in school, so all of this dry stuff is yet burning brightly in my brain. Adjectives derived from proper nouns are proper adjectives. Thus, whatever the nationality, the adjective would still be capitalized for an English tart, an American tart, or a German tart. Just one question, though. What makes you think she is a tart?
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