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  1. #41
    Community Member Nahiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Agree with this. If what the OP says is true. It's a temporary problem that will be solved in 18 days.

    But for the record, prestige options doesn't change a duffus into a hero, if they were struggling with the content you were running it could be as much down to inexperience, overconfidence, bad build, bad gear, or just good old fashioned incompetence. Suffice to say, if the party failed, I wouldn't be so quick to blame the individuals without the prestige enhancements, I'd sooner look at the noobers who think they know better
    Well said, Deadlock.

    The only piece of advice worth saying in this kind of threads is: if you don´t like playing with someone, just don´t play with that someone.

  2. #42
    Community Member Coyopa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    I agree with this here. Now it's hard to believe someone could have gotten all the way to level 25 without doing any kind of research on their class, but it's possible.

    It's really easy for me to believe that people who are fairly new to the game might have no idea that prestige enhancements exist.

    On my current tempest, i will have 7 levels of rogue. I have no plans to take a prestige for the rogue levels. The cost in ap is not worth what i would get from it , in my opinion.
    Not hard to believe at all. I had several characters before I knew there were prestiges in the game. The only reason I even found out was because I was on a cleric without bursts/aura and someone told me about them. That resulted in my deleting my ranger and starting over (could not do a LR at the time) because his feats were jacked up. Furthermore, I just met two rogues who were both level 20 and did not have prestiges, either. I helped them and have two new friends.

    My criticism of the game from the start has been that there is nothing that teaches new people that these things even exist.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyopa View Post
    My criticism of the game from the start has been that there is nothing that teaches new people that these things even exist.
    Things like DR breakers, deathblock, the variety of potions to carry, etc. I can understand not knowing about until you are told or stumble across it. But for the life of me I cannot imagine ever, ever, not looking through every single potential ability that my character could have. It's not as if you are required to resort to outside sources to find out about them - all you have to do is click a box and look.

    I'm not trying to be derogatory here, I just really do not understand it. How could somebody gain 20-25 levels without ever looking at their full enhancements list? It strikes me as a complete lack of any interest in learning more about the game and their character.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTastyHead View Post
    Things like DR breakers, deathblock, the variety of potions to carry, etc. I can understand not knowing about until you are told or stumble across it. But for the life of me I cannot imagine ever, ever, not looking through every single potential ability that my character could have. It's not as if you are required to resort to outside sources to find out about them - all you have to do is click a box and look.

    I'm not trying to be derogatory here, I just really do not understand it. How could somebody gain 20-25 levels without ever looking at their full enhancements list? It strikes me as a complete lack of any interest in learning more about the game and their character.
    People have different ideas about fun. For some, your approach to learning the game may be too much like school.
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  5. #45
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    But...my approach consists of reading what is on the screen in front of me...

    I'll admit I spend as little time around people as I can, but could humanity really have devolved to the point where simply reading what is in front of you is considered too hard, too much effort, "too much like school?"

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTastyHead View Post
    But...my approach consists of reading what is on the screen in front of me...

    I'll admit I spend as little time around people as I can, but could humanity really have devolved to the point where simply reading what is in front of you is considered too hard, too much effort, "too much like school?"
    Finding a trainer, opening enhancement dialogue, choosing show unavailable, and displaying by prerequisite is second nature to me now, but I had to learn those options were there, and even what they meant. Even so, I didn't start doing that until after I read about PrE's in wiki, which another player told me about. Some players prefer a turnkey approach, maybe others just want to get familiar with what they have before they start making changes.

    I also mentioned the possibility of a language barrier, and someone else mentioned the possibility that a player may be a child. Tbh, we really haven't enough information to be any kind of judgmental.
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  7. #47

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    Thanks for this nice wall of text. You are giving advice to those who do not search for advice. Of course they are not happy about that. You are linking ddo wiki to people who did not ask for help and which you do not know in advance, enough reason for me to put you on ignore list if I were in their situation. And finally there are actually good reasons in some builds to not use the prestige enhancements.
    Last edited by morkahn82; 08-02-2013 at 02:29 AM.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTastyHead View Post
    But...my approach consists of reading what is on the screen in front of me...

    I'll admit I spend as little time around people as I can, but could humanity really have devolved to the point where simply reading what is in front of you is considered too hard, too much effort, "too much like school?"
    To some people, believe it or not, this game is just a game. You gain a rank, go to the trainer, pick out whatever enhancements look good and get back to playing. Likely not even noticing the check box for show unavailable or doing more than skimming the list if they did. It's not that it's to hard, just not important enough to worry about studying the rather bloated list that pops up.

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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by inventoryisfull View Post
    So who exactly is Micheal Lowell and why should I think his opinion holds any weight? Looks like just some random leet kiddie that wants to feel special about taking video games seriously to me.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    To some people, believe it or not, this game is just a game.
    The implication of this statement is that, because I bother to actually read the things that are on my screen, this is somehow more than just a game to me. I assure you, that is not the case. Taking ten minutes to read things that are going to have an effect on every aspect of the character for as long as I play it does not indicate an obsessive level of play.

  12. #52
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    You don’t hear people say they read books for fun or watch films for fun or play sports for fun. Maybe they play sports “for the exercise”, but not “for fun”. (Michael Lowell)
    I know first-hand this is pure lies, because I have heard people say these things. This is just another person trying to put forth his opinions as fact. Sadly, using lies to support his argument just trashes his credibility. I didn't even bother to read the rest.
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTastyHead View Post
    The implication of this statement is that, because I bother to actually read the things that are on my screen, this is somehow more than just a game to me. I assure you, that is not the case. Taking ten minutes to read things that are going to have an effect on every aspect of the character for as long as I play it does not indicate an obsessive level of play.
    No, it just shows a much greater level of interest in the workings of the game. You might say it's what separates a gamer from a mere player.

    I just don't understand why some seem to feel the need to cast derision on others simply because they are mere players who like to spend the few odd hours pretending they are a wizard, or some such, without feeling they have to have a high level of knowledge in game mechanics to do so. From looking at the simple systems the industry leaders have in place it would seem that this is far from unusual, with the parts of the game needing in-depth knowledge being mostly considered the "end game".

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    This is just another person trying to put forth his opinions as fact.
    There is a truth to it. Just look at Gremmlynn's response to me, as if my taking the time to understand what I am doing in the game means that I am not a person who views the game as just a game to play for fun.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    I just don't understand why some seem to feel the need to cast derision on others simply because they are mere players who like to spend the few odd hours pretending they are a wizard, or some such, without feeling they have to have a high level of knowledge in game mechanics to do so.
    So just to be clear here - you believe that reading the enhancement list constitutes "a high level of knowledge in game mechanics?" That people understanding the most basic points of the character building system that is used from level 1 on is an unreasonable expectation?

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTastyHead View Post
    There is a truth to it. Just look at Gremmlynn's response to me, as if my taking the time to understand what I am doing in the game means that I am not a person who views the game as just a game to play for fun.
    I personally think you see it as something more interesting than just a game. I know I do. I'm just not surprised that there are those who don't see it as more, as I play with several. These are the players who often ask what they should train, but rarely why that's the case.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTastyHead View Post
    There is a truth to it. Just look at Gremmlynn's response to me, as if my taking the time to understand what I am doing in the game means that I am not a person who views the game as just a game to play for fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    I personally think you see it as something more interesting than just a game. I know I do. I'm just not surprised that there are those who don't see it as more, as I play with several. These are the players who often ask what they should train, but rarely why that's the case.
    People have different ideas of fun. Simple, really.
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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTastyHead View Post
    So just to be clear here - you believe that reading the enhancement list constitutes "a high level of knowledge in game mechanics?" That people understanding the most basic points of the character building system that is used from level 1 on is an unreasonable expectation?
    I really don't see how I have the right to expect anything out of someone who is playing for their own reasons and not mine. That doesn't mean I shouldn't avoid them in-game if I feel not doing so cuts into what I find fun about the game.

    Some people take swimming very seriously, others just like to splash around in the pool. How is this any different other than drowning in a video game being a lot less permanent?

  19. #59
    Community Member Coyopa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTastyHead View Post
    Things like DR breakers, deathblock, the variety of potions to carry, etc. I can understand not knowing about until you are told or stumble across it. But for the life of me I cannot imagine ever, ever, not looking through every single potential ability that my character could have. It's not as if you are required to resort to outside sources to find out about them - all you have to do is click a box and look.

    I'm not trying to be derogatory here, I just really do not understand it. How could somebody gain 20-25 levels without ever looking at their full enhancements list? It strikes me as a complete lack of any interest in learning more about the game and their character.
    To be honest, I cannot recall (because it has been almost 4 years now) whether I had even noticed the "Show Unavailable" checkbox at that time. I am going to guess that I had not because I expect I had not used it prior to the whole thing with my cleric. Simultaneously, why should someone have to do that? The game shows you some enhancements you are not able to take. So, why would it not show you all of them? Especially something as important as a prestige. In the end, the issue is not "How can they have NO INTEREST in their own CHARACTER? Go back to WoW NOOOOB!" - instead, it is an issue of not expecting this kind of complexity and depth. The last MMO I had played before DDO was EverQuest - a game that could never be called complex (at the time I played it, which was when the level cap was 70).

    After all, if you do not realize that feats impact which enhancements you can take, then why would you expect to have to click "Show Unavailable" or think anything other than "This is what the game shows me as being available and that must be all that is available to me". (Just as another side note: Not everyone has played D&D edition 3+. The last edition of D&D that I played was edition 2 and there was nothing called "feats" or "prestige classes" in that game.)

  20. #60
    Community Member Coyopa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTastyHead View Post
    The implication of this statement is that, because I bother to actually read the things that are on my screen, this is somehow more than just a game to me. I assure you, that is not the case. Taking ten minutes to read things that are going to have an effect on every aspect of the character for as long as I play it does not indicate an obsessive level of play.
    It takes longer than 10 minutes as a new player to fully understand the depth and complexity that goes into what enhancements you can train. I know I had expected DDO to be a lot like any other MMO in that I get a tutorial in the beginning that shows me most of what I need to know and there is not a huge learning curve after that. This is far, far from the truth of this game. The tutorial makes sure you know how to open doors, swim, swing a weapon, and interact with NPC's. After that, you are simply thrown into the deep end to figure everything else out on your own. I also recall that my first character was a paladin because I had wanted a character that was mostly self-sufficient and that I had chosen one of the pre-built paths thinking surely the developers created decent paths that will help me create a fun, effective character that will help me learn the game. Personally, I think you need to remember what it was like to be completely new to the game without any experience with D&D and even, perhaps, without any experience with multiple MMOs.

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