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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    However, the lack of those indications does not prove that the character does not have any prestige classes.
    For some classes the lack of indication does prove the absence of a prestige.


    • All Sorc prestiges present visual indication.
    • PM Wizards in form present a visual indication. It's been a while - I think AM is indicated by inspection, but I may be wrong.
    • Tempest prestige is indicated by inspection when dual wielding. AA does not present an indication.
    • FvS prestige is indicated by inspection unless someone else has been Named Champion. The animation for this act is unambiguous and easily noticed.
    • Cleric prestige is indicated by burst or positive energy aura. Possible to have prestige and not use functions, but unlikely, and nearly the same as not having the prestige.
    • DoS/SD is indicated on character sheet when stance is active. Possible to have prestige and not use stance, but unlikely, and nearly the same as not having the prestige.
    • Kensei does not present indication unless Power Surge is active. Failing to use Power Surge for Kensei 2 (and thereby present an indication) is nearly the same as not having the prestige.
    • Frenzied Beserker does not present indication until Frenzy or Death Frenzy is active. Failure to Frenzy and DeathFrenzy is nearly the same as not having the prestige.
    • Assassin does not present indication.
    • Bard prestiges do not present indication.



    The list of prestiges that do not present a visual or inspectable indicator is smaller than the list that does.


    It is true that Absence of Proof is not Proof of Absence, however the prestiges that are plausibly relevant to ''albusiswaybetterthanme' (FvS likely, Cleric possible) are more likely to be indicated than not.

    For 'derpdualtwizzler' (twf DPS - ambiguous - Assassin, Kensei, Tempest are reasonable guesses, but not certain), best to ask.



    Seriously, though. You don't need to be Columbo to derive whether or not a player has taken and is using class prestige abilities.

    Whether or not it's appropriate or helpful to badger someone for taking / not taking or using / not using a prestige enhancement is another issue entirely.

    Prestige enhancements increase effectiveness in most cases. Seems silly to me to leave low hanging fruit unpicked.

  2. #22
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Cant blame this one on the WOW folks - they have to put points into their toons as well in order to have a viable character. They even have an indicator that reminds them to do this.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCoaly View Post
    It is true that Absence of Proof is not Proof of Absence, however the prestiges that are plausibly relevant to ''albusiswaybetterthanme' (FvS likely, Cleric possible) are more likely to be indicated than not.

    For 'derpdualtwizzler' (twf DPS - ambiguous - Assassin, Kensei, Tempest are reasonable guesses, but not certain), best to ask.
    it comes down to this. there is really no way to "prove" that no prestige exists. you can assume what he should have all you want and you can reasonable guess that he doesnt have what you think they should.

    its all pointless. the op has no right to demand or expect anyone play the game the way he wants them to. The op does have the right to not play with people he feels are "gimped".
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  4. #24
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Can the OP define specifically how these toons were gimp?

    How many times did they die, if they died at all.

    I only ask that because people's definitions of "gimp" around here seem fairly fluid...

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aolas View Post
    .
    .
    .

    Boggled as to why the forum spellchecker has the word english underlined, for ****'s sake!
    Possibly because, in English, the names of languages are proper nouns.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    Possibly because, in English, the names of languages are proper nouns.
    Bleh, nitpicking. There is no difference in the spelling of English and english.

    Where's my cricket bat?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Cant blame this one on the WOW folks - they have to put points into their toons as well in order to have a viable character. They even have an indicator that reminds them to do this.
    So blame Turbine for not having an indicator?

    Actually, this is likely close to the truth in this case as, unless you research character building, you may very well not know they exist. With the current enhancement UI, one must have taken the prereq's or click show all to even see them. Even then they show up as just another enhancement, not something special.

    Probably one of the reasons a need was found to make a better UI that highlights those prestige's.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aolas View Post
    Bleh, nitpicking. There is no difference in the spelling of English and english.

    Where's my cricket bat?
    There is a difference to the spellchecker. lol

    It would be easier in German, since every noun is capitalized.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    So blame Turbine for not having an indicator?

    Actually, this is likely close to the truth in this case as, unless you research character building, you may very well not know they exist. With the current enhancement UI, one must have taken the prereq's or click show all to even see them. Even then they show up as just another enhancement, not something special.

    Probably one of the reasons a need was found to make a better UI that highlights those prestige's.
    Agree with this. If what the OP says is true. It's a temporary problem that will be solved in 18 days.

    But for the record, prestige options doesn't change a duffus into a hero, if they were struggling with the content you were running it could be as much down to inexperience, overconfidence, bad build, bad gear, or just good old fashioned incompetence. Suffice to say, if the party failed, I wouldn't be so quick to blame the individuals without the prestige enhancements, I'd sooner look at the noobers who think they know better

  10. #30
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    So blame Turbine for not having an indicator?

    Actually, this is likely close to the truth in this case as, unless you research character building, you may very well not know they exist. With the current enhancement UI, one must have taken the prereq's or click show all to even see them. Even then they show up as just another enhancement, not something special.

    Probably one of the reasons a need was found to make a better UI that highlights those prestige's.
    I agree with this here. Now it's hard to believe someone could have gotten all the way to level 25 without doing any kind of research on their class, but it's possible.

    It's really easy for me to believe that people who are fairly new to the game might have no idea that prestige enhancements exist.

    On my current tempest, i will have 7 levels of rogue. I have no plans to take a prestige for the rogue levels. The cost in ap is not worth what i would get from it , in my opinion.

  11. #31
    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    I have no plans to take a prestige for the rogue levels. The cost in ap is not worth what i would get from it , in my opinion.
    This could be true for all kinds of builds in all kinds of classes. While I do usually have at least one prestige class on my characters, it is typically just because I like the flavor it adds - not because it makes or breaks the character. I'll give some examples:

    My "Demon Hunter" Ranger18/Fighter2 Deepwood Sniper:
    He would hardly be different without the PrE.

    My "Swashbuckler" Fighter18/Rogue2 Kensei:
    He would be a little more diverse without the steep prereq costs, but not quite as effective at combat tactics.

    My "Forest Guardian" Druid18/Wizard1/Ranger1 Arcane Archer:
    She was built with the PrE in mind, but it actually puts a mild brake on spellcasting effectiveness. I did it purely for diversity and sustainability.

    My "Enchantress" Sorceror19/Bard1 Fire Savant:
    In truth, her savant abilities probably make her a bit gimpier than she would be. Having only 2.5 elements to work with makes for some touchy situations sometimes. It's not about the raw power, it's about finding a particular subset of abilities that makes the game interesting. She would be an air savant if it was all about the metagame.

    It is NOT about the metagame, at all. Build gimp characters, no one cares. What people DO care about is how you play them. If you can play a halfling barbarian shuriken specialist extremely well, you'll just wind up knowing more about the game and obtaining the respect of a larger base of friends.

    The least endearing aspect of metagamers is their inability to grasp simple gaming concepts or that other people may actually have purely game-related motivations for playing. Arrogance at it's finest.

    The enemy is player attitudes.

  12. #32
    RangerDangerGrrl Kawai's Avatar
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    unless i am missing boat entirely here, easiest way to tell prestige is to simply examine toonie.
    it will tell you what they are currently.
    right under name, i believe, without looking inside game atm.

    as for Oppie...

    :|

    really?

    Obsessed with someone else's fun so much as to bring it to forums?
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  13. #33
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kawai View Post
    unless i am missing boat entirely here, easiest way to tell prestige is to simply examine toonie.
    it will tell you what they are currently.
    right under name, i believe, without looking inside game atm.

    as for Oppie...

    :|

    really?

    Obsessed with someone else's fun so much as to bring it to forums?
    Examining will show the epic destiny. Prestiges are the things that you take in heroic levels 6,12,18. That doesn't show in the examine window.

  14. #34
    RangerDangerGrrl Kawai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    Examining will show the epic destiny. Prestiges are the things that you take in heroic levels 6,12,18. That doesn't show in the examine window.
    ahhhh
    sorry, yes, egg on face. had to do a re-read, cheers luv.

    --guess i assumed EDs, as the ranting was about fully decked out lvl 25s.

    ...
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  15. #35
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCoaly View Post
    [*]Bard prestiges do not present indication.[/LIST]






    S.
    Well I guess you can sort of tell by what songs they sing? If they use their prestige songs, warchanters might sing the double strike, or dr song, SS the spellsong trance, or vigor, give sp back to the party sometimes after they sing, the virts heal over time song. But if they dont sing em you wont have much of a clue.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobrien316 View Post
    You encountered someone you thought was gimp? And they still had the nerve to play? How dare they!


    Were they d-bags who were rude to everyone? Because no one wants to play with people like that.


    If they were simply, in your opinion, "gimp", what's the issue? They didn't build their character the way you would have built their character?
    Every character should be taking prestige enhancements, not doing so is worse than merely being a gimp.

    Just like no one should be dump statting con.

  17. #37
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    Play 'em as you like 'em, I always say,

    When it comes down to play-styles and the criticism of others for not melding to the fold of "this genre" or *that genre", it's every-man for himself. I've seen both the worst of players have "toons" geared fully up and bookoo of hp and just get pwn'd everytime... , and then I've seen the best of players with "gimped by hp and lack of gear be the one toon that survives by his wits alone.

    With that said, it's not the gear, or the "PRE's" that make the character, it's the idiot behind the keyboard.
    "I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied...
    Learn to swim..."

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  18. #38
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    So many replies wasted, it's quite obvious that the OP just meant Epic Destinies and not prestige class enhancements, first ones are easy to see with 1 click, the second ones you have too work hard to find out and in many cases can't tell even after playing 15 hours with that toon in your group. And, yeah, OP, EDs are paid content, most people own them but I know a lot of people who don't, especially people who weren't around last summer for previous expansion, came back or started recently and still haven't bought them.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gempoult View Post
    So many replies wasted, it's quite obvious that the OP just meant Epic Destinies and not prestige class enhancements, first ones are easy to see with 1 click, the second ones you have too work hard to find out and in many cases can't tell even after playing 15 hours with that toon in your group. And, yeah, OP, EDs are paid content, most people own them but I know a lot of people who don't, especially people who weren't around last summer for previous expansion, came back or started recently and still haven't bought them.
    I did mean PrEs.

    Easy to spot if you are observant and know what to look for.

    My problem is there are people reaching max level that do not even know about them.

    The last 2 paragraphs of original post are most important, I highlight them now as I see many people did not even read that far before taking it personally and becoming buttfrustrated.
    Last edited by inventoryisfull; 08-01-2013 at 12:03 PM.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by inventoryisfull View Post
    I did mean PrEs.

    Easy to spot if you are observant and know what to look for.

    My problem is there are people reaching max level that do not even know about them.

    The last 2 paragraphs of original post are most important, I highlight them now as I see many people did not even read that far before taking it personally and becoming buttfrustrated.
    Man, what exactly is your problem with those guys?

    That they may have arrived from WoW? Maybe, but who cares?
    That they may have bought Bigby handy box and skip levels? How can you tell and why do you care?
    That they dont play the same way you do?

    I remember being new to this game few years back. Up to level 8, I had multiple +2 strenght items to increase my strenght. I thought they stack.
    My gaming buddy was a FVS, the only reason he learned about PRE was beause we stepped into Rainbow in the dark and someone asked him to turn on his archon for more light. He had no idea what was that person talking about and told them he is already using another summon.
    I was meele and I learned that there is something called DR, when casual Devourer of Dreams killed me, cause I wasnt using good aligned weapon.
    I remember runing Haunted Library 3 times in a row with FvS buddy and wasting about 2 hours there before I realized, that the boss is not uberpowefull - I just need deathblock.
    I did tons and tons of other stuff on my first life and in lesser extension on a second life. Today, the game is more complicated then it was those years ago and it is much easier to capp character. I can easily imagine ppl simply not learning much during their first lives. I didnt. And today, I am a decent player.

    I also wonder if some guy was starting threads over my incompetence back then .-D


    To put it simply:

    1. Help them
    2. Ignore them
    3. Blacklist them

    Its game. threat is as a game.

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