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  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Warlock Class Discussion

    Ideas on a format for putting the Warlock class into DDO.

    Alignment: Non Lawful
    Primary Attribute: Charisma
    HP: 6 per class level
    BAB: medium
    High Saves: Fortitude
    Skill Points: 4 per class level
    Class Skills: Balance, Bluff, Intimidate, Jump, Tumble, UMD
    Excluded Race: Warforged


    Invocations

    Warlocks cast invocations spontaneously and draw them from a pool of arcane and divine sources. They are spell like abilities, exempt from arcane failure and require no concentration or material components.

    To learn an invocation the Warlock must visit the warlock trainer and use the invocation interface. The interface lists all spellcasting classes, you select a spellcasting class eg. Bard then select the appropriate spell from the pool of all available spells from that class. The spell is added as an invocation at the appropriate tier. You cast the invocation as a spellcaster of the same class level.

    The spell level of an invocation is naturally heightened according to the class level of the Warlock. Invocations cannot be quickened but may be affected by other metamagic feats. Invocation DC is based on the warlock's Charisma attribute, rather than the class attribute of whatever class the spell for the invocation came from.

    Tier 1 Invocations: 1st level spells
    Tier 2 Invocations: 2nd level spells
    Tier 3 Invocations: 3rd level spells
    Tier 4 Invocations: 4th level spells

    Known Invocations and maximum Tier by warlock class level
    1 One Invocation, Tier 1
    2 Two Invocations
    4 Three Invocations, Tier 2
    6 Four Invocations
    8 Five Invocations, Tier 3
    10 Six Invocations
    12 Seven Invocations, Tier 4
    14 Eight Invocations
    16 Nine Invocations
    18 Ten Invocations

    Heightening by warlock class level
    1 All invocations are 1st level spells
    3 All invocations are 2nd level spells
    6 All invocations are 3rd level spells
    8 All invocations are 4th level spells
    10 All invocations are 5th level spells
    12 All invocations are 6th level spells
    14 All invocations are 7th level spells
    16 All invocations are 8th level spells
    18 All invocations are 9th level spells

    You can swap (relearn) one invocation at class level 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20. A 20th level warlock with five swaps could therefore achieve something like the following, the number in brackets is the original tier picks before swaps were made:

    Tier 1: (2) 0 Invocations
    Tier 2: (2) 0 Invocations
    Tier 3: (2) 4 Invocations
    Tier 4: (4) 6 Invocations


    Prestige Enhancements

    There are two prestige lines, the Wiccan and Abyssinthe. Wiccan expands the potential for casting more powerful invocations while the Abyssinthe taps the power of their fiendish heritage to focus more on physical combat.

    Wiccan
    Extra Invocation: select one from the list of 5th level spells
    Extra Invocation: select one from the list of 5th level spells
    Extra Invocation: select one from the list of 6th level spells
    Extra Invocation: select one from the list of 6th level spells
    Universal spellpower enhancements
    Spell Critical enhancements

    Abyssinthe
    Improved Hitdice: Hitdice improve by +2 per warlock class level (8 HP per level)
    Improved Hitdice: Hitdice improve by +4 per warlock class level (10 HP per level)
    Blood Demon: This is a custom invocation that increases the warlock's strength, base attack and attack speed. It can stack with class abilities such as barbarian rage or spells such as tenser's transformation. Improvements to this invocation are handled via enhancements.
    Alignment is temporarily masked to evil while under the influence of Blood Demon


    Capstone
    tba

    Past Life: Warlock
    tba

    Warlock Specific Enhancements
    tba

  2. #2
    Community Member Meretrix's Avatar
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    I was just thinking about warlocks in ddo today while shooting my runearm. I think theres lots of potential for the class to be truly unique and could have lots of cool options for eldritch blasts.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meretrix View Post
    I was just thinking about warlocks in ddo today while shooting my runearm. I think theres lots of potential for the class to be truly unique and could have lots of cool options for eldritch blasts.
    Yep. I didn't include Eldritch Blast in the initial design but it could be added as a unique invocation that is improved with enhancements like eg. Divine Light, with each enhancement level adding to the number of damage dice.

    Mainly it's allowing you to mix spells from all the spellcasting classes together so it's a bit bardish in a way. Most of the work is done, the spells are already in the game so it's just coding the interface for adding invocations and away we go

    I too would love a unique type of class but was thinking it better to go the easy route then maybe develop it in the future to make it more unique. At least get it in the game but yeah you could do a lot with the theme, DDO doesn't as of yet have a full debuff type class, monster saving throws fairly discourage DC casting on the whole, so I guess that would be it's niche, Curses, Hexes etc.
    Last edited by Aolas; 07-30-2013 at 10:21 PM.

  4. #4
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Warlocks would be awesome. But why are warforged excluded?

  5. #5
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    Rather see about every other class ever imagined added first dont really see warlocks adding much but thats just me only thing about yours I really dont like and dont see making any sense period is not allowing Warforged other than possibly the op not liking or understanding the race.


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  6. #6
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    Classically, a warlock is someone who has a fiendish ancestry. Their power is drawn from their fiendish heritage and originates from the lower planes (infernal powers). A warforged wouldn't be a warlock since they are constructs and have no mortal/fiendish ancestry. You could relax the exception for DDO but it wouldn't make any sense.

    And yeah the design isn't superduper but it's an extra class that the developers can throw in with a bare minimum of effort. If anyone has cool ideas or a different design don't be shy and post, that's what the thread is for.
    Last edited by Aolas; 07-31-2013 at 09:29 AM. Reason: fluidity

  7. #7
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aolas View Post
    Classically, a warlock is someone who has a fiendish ancestry. Their power is drawn from their fiendish heritage and originates from the lower planes (infernal powers). A warforged wouldn't be a warlock since they are constructs and have no mortal/fiendish ancestry. You could relax the exception for DDO but it wouldn't make any sense.

    And yeah the design isn't superduper but it's an extra class that the developers can throw in with a bare minimum of effort. If anyone has cool ideas or a different design don't be shy and post, that's what the thread is for.
    Another way to become a warlock would be to make a Pact with an entity that is either chaotic or evil.

  8. #8
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    Not trying to mix things up here, but if warlock class were developed, it would be cool to also include the tieflin race.
    There are other classes that i would love to see, but we could just open another topic for each one of them.

  9. #9
    Community Member PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    I tried out Warlock when it was part of Neverwinter Nights 2. Didn't add anything unique that wasn't easily available through sorcerer or wizard. Nor would it bring anything new to the table in DDO. It'd be identical to every other type of sla-based shiradi caster. Pew pew pew. Zzzzzz.

    I wouldn't mind if they put in that NPC "shaman" class because apparently it gets evasion, the cleric spell list, AND the wizard spell list. Sounds nice.

  10. #10
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    doh didnt realize it was a necro


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  11. #11
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    I want warlocks as well, but I'd rather get one that's closer to the D&D 3.5 version. Eldritch blast, limited number of available invocations(instead of getting a mix from all classes), some invocations that are actually pretty powerful(I believe dark invocations are supposed to be equivalent to 6-9th level spells) and so on.

  12. #12
    Community Member Kelmaru's Avatar
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    Here are my ideas on how to make the warlock in ddo:
    Eldritch Blast: weak ray with short recharge (Enhancements could increase damage).
    Limited no. of invocations and the ability to swap one every three days (just like sorcerers and bards).
    Invocations: use most on invocation list from Complete Arcane (Spiderwalk, Fell Flight, and a few others could break the game).
    Blast Shape and Essence invocations would probably be toggles similar to the Eldritch Knight or Arcane Archer core enhancements.
    Add instant kill invocation with medium-long recharge to dark invocations list.
    Waiting... Please load.

  13. #13
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    My issue is that warlocks have a reputation of being underpowered when compared to other 'blast' classes such as wizards and sorcerers. A warlock's eldritch blast should by no means be comparable to a sorcerer's savant enhancements or even an evocation-specced archmage, but should be comparable, if not slightly better (when built properly and min/maxing) than a typical wizard, favored soul, cleric, spellsinger bard, and herald druid. Middle-road damage, with the classic warlock's ability to be versatile and change their damage type on the fly.

    Their underpowered-ness stems from the balance that they have zero resource management, unlimited/at-will abilities, decent melee capabilities (as a 'blastlock', much better as a 'glaivelock'), and better innate defenses than most spellcasters (DR, elemental resistances, light/medium armor proficiency, regeneration). In DDO's environment, this would just make them underpowered, since it's very easy for any character or class to become self-sufficient. This being said, 'blastlocks' should get a slight buff from what they would normally have in PnP. 'Glaivelocks' should have no trouble sliding into a comfortable melee dps role, even open up some more options for rogue acrobat/quarterstaff builds. It's too bad that warlocks must be chaotic or evil, it'd make an interesting henshin mystic.

    A few issues/oddities concerning eldritch blasts:

    - A warlock's eldritch blast is a ranged touch attack. Considering there's no touch attack rolls in DDO, we must assume there will be no ranged touch attacks applied to eldritch blasts. This would mean warlocks could ignore dexterity, which is something a warlock in PnP might spend a few points in to develop their accuracy of eldritch blasts?

    - While warlocks do not suffer arcane spell failure (they're using innate/given abilities, not casting spells) how is this going to affect the warlock's dependency on spell penetration? The spell penetration rules are different between PnP and DDO, but warlocks have a fair amount of invocations/eldritch blast essences that would require a spell resistance check. I see a lot of coding issues, in this.

    - A warlock's eldritch blast can be turned into an eldritch glaive (a spear-like weapon, probably a quarterstaff in DDO in Sireth) and wielded in melee. How would this be implemented? Would it be like a celestia in quarterstaff form, changing its damage type based on the eldritch essences used? That has the potential to become completely overpowered if not handled correctly.

  14. #14
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    A few issues/oddities concerning eldritch blasts:

    - A warlock's eldritch blast is a ranged touch attack. Considering there's no touch attack rolls in DDO, we must assume there will be no ranged touch attacks applied to eldritch blasts. This would mean warlocks could ignore dexterity, which is something a warlock in PnP might spend a few points in to develop their accuracy of eldritch blasts?
    I can see two ways to go with this. Either keep the ranged touch attack thing and in general make EB a sort of hybrid ranged ability (as opposed to a spell) and let it benefit from certain ranged feats; OR toss out ranged touch attacks entirely and make EB a spell of sorts. Actually, in 5th edition rules, spells that require an attack roll use the caster's stat modifier (charisma in the case of the warlock).

    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    - While warlocks do not suffer arcane spell failure (they're using innate/given abilities, not casting spells) how is this going to affect the warlock's dependency on spell penetration? The spell penetration rules are different between PnP and DDO, but warlocks have a fair amount of invocations/eldritch blast essences that would require a spell resistance check. I see a lot of coding issues, in this.
    I don't think it would be an issue if they treat each combination of EB, blast-shape invocation and/or eldritch essence as a separate ability entirely. Of course, if they do it like that then the Warlock wouldn't be able to use the traditional spellbook UI that every other caster uses.

    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    - A warlock's eldritch blast can be turned into an eldritch glaive (a spear-like weapon, probably a quarterstaff in DDO in Sireth) and wielded in melee. How would this be implemented? Would it be like a celestia in quarterstaff form, changing its damage type based on the eldritch essences used? That has the potential to become completely overpowered if not handled correctly.
    I'm leery about summoned weapons. Flame Blade isn't that great, since you can't put slots in it and it's affected by elemental resistances. Instead, I'd make it a cleave-style attack similar to the Shadar-kai's chain attack, or maybe a weapon imbue, maybe?

    Also, remember "Eldritch Claws"? That could be a toggle or mode of some kind that gives increased unarmed damage and gives the warlock increased attack speed like a monk. Of course, the spell "Alter Self" could be used to do the same thing.

  15. #15
    Community Member kmoustakas's Avatar
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    Wheres the prestige line acolyte of the skin?
    OkarisRage, artificer afraid of the reaper
    Caldrick, hp tank wannabe - Noellal, in etr hell
    Tagthor, testing fiery bard
    Comprehensive list of cormyrean attributes

  16. #16
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmoustakas View Post
    Wheres the prestige line acolyte of the skin?
    That would probably be one of the three.

    Hellfire Warlock
    - Traditionally, this is the go-to prestige class for 'blastlocks'. You greatly enhance the damage of your eldritch blasts, but take con damage when you use it (in PnP, you would use it sparingly, like against a particularly tough opponent). I could see the con damage being replaced with exhaustion or something of that sort. There would have to be a penalty of sorts for this, like a barbarian rage, long cooldowns on strong sorcerer SLA's, etc. This would be the offensive/caster-like enhancement tree.

    Acolyte of the Skin
    - This would be more of a...defensive/supportive type of warlock. You're basically taking a demon or chaotic/evil outsider and infusing its actual body into your own, increasing your stats and HP, developing new immunities, and eventually becoming a chaotic outsider (like a pure monk becomes a lawful outsider). I could see this tree becoming a supportive/debuffing/cursing sort of enhancement tree.

    Chameleon? / Trickster?
    - This would essentially be geared towards a melee warlock, utilizing the eldritch glaive. I think something along the lines of a more sneak attack -oriented build would work, playing on the warlock's innate usefulness with social skills, dominating people's minds, and shadar-kai-like stealth teleporting abilities. It wouldn't be a fighter with a quarterstaff, it would be more of a rogue with a quarterstaff with invocations at their use (particularly ones that make clouds of darkness to effectively blind enemies and turn you invisible).

  17. #17
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    That would probably be one of the three.

    Hellfire Warlock
    - Traditionally, this is the go-to prestige class for 'blastlocks'. You greatly enhance the damage of your eldritch blasts, but take con damage when you use it (in PnP, you would use it sparingly, like against a particularly tough opponent). I could see the con damage being replaced with exhaustion or something of that sort. There would have to be a penalty of sorts for this, like a barbarian rage, long cooldowns on strong sorcerer SLA's, etc. This would be the offensive/caster-like enhancement tree.

    Acolyte of the Skin
    - This would be more of a...defensive/supportive type of warlock. You're basically taking a demon or chaotic/evil outsider and infusing its actual body into your own, increasing your stats and HP, developing new immunities, and eventually becoming a chaotic outsider (like a pure monk becomes a lawful outsider). I could see this tree becoming a supportive/debuffing/cursing sort of enhancement tree.

    Chameleon? / Trickster?
    - This would essentially be geared towards a melee warlock, utilizing the eldritch glaive. I think something along the lines of a more sneak attack -oriented build would work, playing on the warlock's innate usefulness with social skills, dominating people's minds, and shadar-kai-like stealth teleporting abilities. It wouldn't be a fighter with a quarterstaff, it would be more of a rogue with a quarterstaff with invocations at their use (particularly ones that make clouds of darkness to effectively blind enemies and turn you invisible).
    I'm not familiar with Chameleon. How about Duskblade or Hexblade? Those would fit, thematically.

  18. #18
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    I'm not familiar with Chameleon. How about Duskblade or Hexblade? Those would fit, thematically.
    Hexblade would fit, thematically, but then warlocks are not proficient with any swords other than daggers. Eldritch blast can be formed into a glaive/spear and a claw (a quarterstaff and handwraps, in DDO's environment). I suppose you could GIVE proficiency in the core abilities of the tree, but it would conflict with the eldritch glaive being a spear-like weapon. You would have to change that entirely, which is getting a bit away from the base of the class, itself. Then again, the class has to change to suit the mechanics of the game (which is why rangers don't have companions and paladins don't have mounts).

  19. #19
    Community Member jellyfish21's Avatar
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    The alignment of a Warlock in DDO should be Chaotic Neutral, exclusively. They should have high Will saves, exclusively. They should have a poor progression of BaB. They need to deliver an eldritch blast which is un-resistible by any means. They need to scale the damage of eldritch blast to one shot a trash mob.

    The Warlock should be a work in progress. It will take a year after their live release until they are balanced. Don't be surprised of anything less. In pen and paper, there is literally no way of killing a warlock other than to surprise them.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellyfish21 View Post
    The alignment of a Warlock in DDO should be Chaotic Neutral, exclusively. They should have high Will saves, exclusively. They should have a poor progression of BaB. They need to deliver an eldritch blast which is un-resistible by any means. They need to scale the damage of eldritch blast to one shot a trash mob.

    The Warlock should be a work in progress. It will take a year after their live release until they are balanced. Don't be surprised of anything less. In pen and paper, there is literally no way of killing a warlock other than to surprise them.
    Baloney warlocks are just as easy to kill as any other class unless you allow some of the ridiculous optional s plat books that no intelligent gm would allow


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