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Thread: AH and Sniping

  1. #21
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    maybe I misunderstand something in OP, but isn´t that exactly how auctions work and are supposed work?

  2. #22
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    Personally, I see the AH as working fine. Sometimes one just needs to learn to work with the system. As for how some people may have 'acquired' mega-plat - IBTL.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Algreg View Post
    maybe I misunderstand something in OP, but isn´t that exactly how auctions work and are supposed work?
    Not really, which is why most other auction houses have implemented proxy bidding or something. If it was a silent auction, then yes - but then you wouldn't be able to see the current "min bid", you just bid whatever you want and hope no one else bids more.

    Auctions are "supposed" to let all the interested parties compete with each other. The seller gets the best price the item will garner, the buyer gets the lowest price he needs to pay. The problem with sniping is it doesn't allow this process to come to completion, its an attempt to "freeze" the price at below-market values. I cant bid against you until you've made your bid, and I cant bid against you once the auction expires, and snipers try to make those events simultaneous, so I cant bid against you at all.

    "Isengard bids 5", for those who get the reference

    I could just bid more to begin with, but then I'm potentially bidding against myself, and I might end up paying 2-3x more than its true value if no one else was going to bid. And if that's the solution, we might as well ditch the auctions altogether and just have a Buyout House.

  4. #24
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    AH mini-game

    For items with no buy-out (and even some with a buy-out) it can be tough getting that item when attempting to buy it for the least amount possible.

    Now a couple nice features of our AH (which is not perfect but it is far better than what it was when we first got it)
    • Lists all items that you have bid on even if you are now no longer the highest bidder
    • You get two notifications when you are outbid 1) Message in general chat "Auction Outbid" 2) Mail (Sending you back your bid)
    • Lists the time left in an auction - This could allow you to "Time" your play so that you can be at an AH within the last 5 to 10 minutes.
    • You get your money back in a mail when you lose


    Now adding a feature like "Maximum Bid" would be nice, and it will require changes in how losing bids and notifications are sent. Again a nice feature, but really not needed.

    There are different reasons why someone can lose an Auction within the last minutes.

    • Savvy buyers willing to "Play" the game to get the item, or sweeten their AH selling
    • Lister seeing their item is not making the profit they were hoping for making a last minute bid and eating the AH fee so they can try again


    Remember the idea of any transaction is to get something you feel is as valuable if not more valuable then its price. Paying what your willing to pay for it is not bidding against yourself, it is making an offer and hoping someone else doesn't feel like it is worth more.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graskitch View Post
    not sure if this has already been mentioned, but is auction house still "bugged" (after update 18) where it lets you bid the same amount as the high bidder?
    This is definitely a bug and should be reported. You should not be able to "steal" someone else's bid by bidding the exact same as them.

    As for the OP, the Auction House is working fine. A maximum bid is a nice feature but won't stop anyone from outbidding you as others have said.
    Last edited by HAL; 07-30-2013 at 01:04 PM.

  6. #26
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    Double blind auctioning is the only way to go. Further, lack of ability to pool a maximum bid on an item is a bit stupid. COH had a vastly superior and vibrant auction house than this.

  7. #27
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    In one MMO I played (not WOW, never played it) there was no auction house. However, each player could be a "merchant" and advertise his wares. You simply parked your character (or mule/merchant alt) in a public place, clicked some sort of merchant button, then select items from your inventory you want to sell. They stayed in your inventory, and then your character got parked in the public place with a special "Vendor" icon you could click and see what he had for sale and how much he was asking (fixed price). Also you got a "balloon" over your toon that you could type text advertising what you had, so someone didn't have to click on your vebdor icon if you didn't have something he wanted.

    Pretty cool system. You never got autobooted for inactivity so you could stay logged in while in merchant mode while you slept or ate.
    Last edited by Fedora1; 07-30-2013 at 01:51 PM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    In one MMO I played (not WOW, never played it) there was no auction house. However, each player could be a "merchant" and advertise his wares. You simply parked your character (or mule/merchant alt) in a public place, clicked some sort of merchant button, then select items from your inventory you want to sell. They stayed in your inventory, and then your character got parked in the public place with a special "Vendor" icon you could click and see what he had for sale and how much he was asking (fixed price). Also you got a "balloon" over your toon that you could type text advertising what you had, so someone didn't have to click on your vebdor icon if you didn't have something he wanted.

    Pretty cool system. You never got autobooted for inactivity so you could stay logged in while in merchant mode while you slept or ate.
    I know what game you're talking about! Great system. Great game. Played on the first PvP server. Loved the level 5s killing the level 1s during the 4 up 4 down era. Great times.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmankowski View Post
    I know what game you're talking about! Great system. Great game. Played on the first PvP server. Loved the level 5s killing the level 1s during the 4 up 4 down era. Great times.
    I actually had to quit cold turkey because I was too addicted. lol

    I had a L96TK that was ranked in the top 50-100 (I don't remember if I actually made it to top 50 or not) when cap was raised from 100 to 105 (or 110?).

    EDIT - On my server. I think there 5 servers at the time.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    In one MMO I played (not WOW, never played it) there was no auction house. However, each player could be a "merchant" and advertise his wares. You simply parked your character (or mule/merchant alt) in a public place, clicked some sort of merchant button, then select items from your inventory you want to sell. They stayed in your inventory, and then your character got parked in the public place with a special "Vendor" icon you could click and see what he had for sale and how much he was asking (fixed price). Also you got a "balloon" over your toon that you could type text advertising what you had, so someone didn't have to click on your vebdor icon if you didn't have something he wanted.

    Pretty cool system. You never got autobooted for inactivity so you could stay logged in while in merchant mode while you slept or ate.
    That's pretty much every Asian-based MMO (of which I've played several). The problem there is you have to click on each individual character to see what they have instead of having everything in one searchable place. And the advertising "balloon" only holds so much text so if you have several different kinds of items its difficult to make a good description. I also didn't like the aspect of essentially turning my PC into a vending machine lol.

    A lot of people seem to like that idea but I wonder if they're just used to it.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    That's pretty much every Asian-based MMO (of which I've played several). The problem there is you have to click on each individual character to see what they have instead of having everything in one searchable place. And the advertising "balloon" only holds so much text so if you have several different kinds of items its difficult to make a good description. I also didn't like the aspect of essentially turning my PC into a vending machine lol.

    A lot of people seem to like that idea but I wonder if they're just used to it.
    True. It was kind of fun hunting for good bargains though.

  12. #32
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    There is something worth bidding for on an AH? What server, I better login.

    Seriously though, between Bound items and the Shard exchange, the AH has seemingly become a wasteland of semi-useful, mediocre gear and situational gear at best. Hardly worth getting worked up about in my book.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    I actually had to quit cold turkey because I was too addicted. lol

    I had a L96TK that was ranked in the top 50-100 (I don't remember if I actually made it to top 50 or not) when cap was raised from 100 to 105 (or 110?).

    EDIT - On my server. I think there 5 servers at the time.
    Yikes, I never saw it get that high. I played from launch through PoP. I think 70 was the cap then. Plus the whole Alternate Experience thing. But yeah, I had to quit too. Way too time consuming. Just like ddo now. Only difference is that I won't quit ddo. Here till the end. Don't miss the PvP either.

    Okay, back on topic! No complaining about sniping. Either quit your job and watch the AH all day.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hafeal View Post
    There is something worth bidding for on an AH? What server, I better login.

    Seriously though, between Bound items and the Shard exchange, the AH has seemingly become a wasteland of semi-useful, mediocre gear and situational gear at best. Hardly worth getting worked up about in my book.
    Yeah, but I'm making a killing of from the AH. Almost everything I post gets bought up in 24 hours. I still refuse to give in to the P2WAH.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Some auction systems add 5 minutes to every auction if a bid is placed in the last 5 minutes.
    DDO's AH is exactly like this... every time you bid and the bid is under 5 mins, the timer goes back to 5 mins.

    I know this because I fought for a bid once with some random guy.

    If you want it to stop, then offer more and hope the other bidder doesn't respond within that next 5 min gap.

    If someone is willing to keep track of an item and bid at the last moment.... and you don't, then he clearly wants the item and deserves it more than you do.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    I still refuse to give in to the P2WAH.
    LOL, I agree.

    AH is all about knowing how to price something and making it move. If you price too high it sits unless you find a sucker. Some people will always wait for the sucker.
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    AH mini-game
    Quote Originally Posted by DynaTheCat View Post
    If someone is willing to keep track of an item and bid at the last moment.... and you don't, then he clearly wants the item and deserves it more than you do.
    Yeah that's the philosophical problem I have with it. The AH is not a "minigame", its a tool. And I'm all for people finding their own metagames, finding different ways to have fun - except when that fun comes at the expense of other players. You might enjoy being the Gordon Gekko of Ghallanda, and normally I'd say "go get you some, son", except when that means that I cant get the gear I need when its not posted BO.

    Plus, philosophically again, auctions aren't about who "wants it more", its not about who's willing to put the most effort into gaming the system, its about who's willing to pay the most. The seller doesn't care who wants it more, the seller just cares about who's going to give them the most plat for their item. I bet if you had posted, say, a +3 tome that sold for 250k to a last-minute snipe bid, and you somehow found out that the original bidder would have gone as high as 350k for it if they had been allowed to counterbid, you would be mad at the person who sniped it out from you.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    Yeah, but I'm making a killing of from the AH. Almost everything I post gets bought up in 24 hours. I still refuse to give in to the P2WAH.
    I don't even bother with the p2w ah........I know I could build up some shards by selling stuff on it then use that to buy stuff I want but..........I don't mind the high charge for using the plat AH off a sale..... they need to have a plat sink........but im really put off by the high charge to use the AD AH......people *buy* those shards then get charged for using em? I would rather just skip and sell items for TP codes, WB still gets their money but they don't get to charge us extra for using it.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Yeah that's the philosophical problem I have with it. The AH is not a "minigame", its a tool. And I'm all for people finding their own metagames, finding different ways to have fun - except when that fun comes at the expense of other players. You might enjoy being the Gordon Gekko of Ghallanda, and normally I'd say "go get you some, son", except when that means that I cant get the gear I need when its not posted BO.

    Plus, philosophically again, auctions aren't about who "wants it more", its not about who's willing to put the most effort into gaming the system, its about who's willing to pay the most. The seller doesn't care who wants it more, the seller just cares about who's going to give them the most plat for their item. I bet if you had posted, say, a +3 tome that sold for 250k to a last-minute snipe bid, and you somehow found out that the original bidder would have gone as high as 350k for it if they had been allowed to counterbid, you would be mad at the person who sniped it out from you.
    The current AH system works more like an Auction House where a Seller gives permission based on an agreement to sell an item to a larger audience then the seller is capable of reaching on their own without considerable expense (resources/time). your example on the +3 tome is actually not relevant in an auction as the seller in good faith gave the Auction House permission to sell the item and did so because the highest bid at the auction was 250K, amount collected and funds transferred (minus fees of course), it does not matter if someone pokes in and says "I would give 350K" because the deal is done.

    But there lies the problem, you have a vision of how the system could work to benefit you and potentially others, and the current system does not work that way. You have pointed out that if the system allowed you to put in a min and max bid it could increment for you while you are doing 'other' things. I agreed that would be a nice system but I don't think it is needed.

    The part I find funny is you seem to feel you "Need" the item you are bidding on, when the word I believe you are looking for is "Want".

    As one that uses the AH to sell both nice items and tweak items I set the minimum price I want to receive. For me anything above that is bonus.

    As a buyer on the AH I place my bid based on how much I would be willing to spend to buy the item. I then let the chips fall where they will, because I don't see items as "Need", I only see them as "Wants"

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DynaTheCat View Post
    DDO's AH is exactly like this... every time you bid and the bid is under 5 mins, the timer goes back to 5 mins.

    I know this because I fought for a bid once with some random guy.

    If you want it to stop, then offer more and hope the other bidder doesn't respond within that next 5 min gap.

    If someone is willing to keep track of an item and bid at the last moment.... and you don't, then he clearly wants the item and deserves it more than you do.
    I disagree. I have been in bid wars before and it still counts down to the expiration time exactly as normal. This in spite of the fact that I was refreshing the AH as fast as I could and bidding immediately after being outbid (without traveling to the mailbox to retrieve my failed bids).

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