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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    Facts indicate it was fully intended...

    1) Pale masters rule the DDO world
    2) U14 - Drow and their SR
    3) Casters adopt, beat the SR barrier
    4) U15 - Plants and wisps (imunities)
    5) U16 - Very high saves
    6) U17 - Extremely high saves

    Turbine saw DC casting is extremely dangerous for game balance and is doing something about it. They did the math and made sure that if someone does beat the DC barrier, he himself gets severely gimped in most of the other areas or is forced to debuff and spend a lot of spell points. This, in turn results in a need for cooperation with other players or chuging a lot of store pots.

    Yeah yeah i know - but shiradi blah blah blah. Shiradi is broken - it will be fixed as well... someday.
    I am not sure I would bring a palemaster into EE GH unless he had a bauble, epic ring of spell storing, torc, concordant opposition so he can match a sorc's spell point potential. And of course only in Shiradi using spells with the most shiradi procs for the least sp. Power word kill and otto's irresistible dance still come in handy at times, but I wouldn't bother with casting debuffs and dc spells because it's not worth it. Sure some will land, but not enough to match the sp efficiency of low sp cost spells in shiradi.

    Being in the right ED with a build optimized for that ED is the way to go for U16+ EEs.

    The best way to make a DC caster effective in U16+ EEs is to TR him/her into a sorc.
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
    Shiradi Wiz Plan for 1st Lifers: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-First-Lifers
    U25 Patch 1 Dex Halfling Assassin Build: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...x-Assassin-1-0
    Warlock DC Caster: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ld-Blast-Build

    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  2. #162
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    I probably won't run Tor in EE ever.

    Being denied instakills in there is a lot like using fat-free milk to make whipped cream. I mean...what's the point?
    Bargain of Blood offers nothing viable for endgame. Tor does.
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
    And an army of gimp experiments!

  3. #163
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    I probably won't run Tor in EE ever.

    Being denied instakills in there is a lot like using fat-free milk to make whipped cream. I mean...what's the point?
    That's been our point the entire time.

  4. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    So your definition of a "balanced" caster is one that's not effective in anything at all?
    You my friend have a serious reading problem.
    NESALOMLJIVI, Thelanis

  5. #165
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Not really, though it may mean they have to play a bit slower.
    If what you mean by 'a bit slower' is not being able to survive more than one mobs aggro at a time, yes.
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
    And an army of gimp experiments!

  6. #166
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    Bargain of Blood offers nothing viable for endgame. Tor does.
    Oh, so I see now: endgame is Tor or above.

    Again, if gimpy-ol'-me can run that quest all on my lonesome, you big, bad self-stroker, 3x completionists can do Tor without CC and instakills.

    The point was that EE quests - the very specific quests YOU guys want for the "challenge" - are supposed to be challenging. You want them nerfed basically so that anyone can run them.

    Ok, fine, you'd better not whine and complain that DDO isn't challenging any more, because that's what you'll get; no matter how you slice it. The only other alternative is to create a Enchanter epic destiny that specializes in CC, which ain't gonna happen.

  7. #167
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    That's been our point the entire time.
    You want to run with the big boys, you'd better come with something more in your arsenal than FoD.

    Or maybe you want DDO to make good on it's offer to make the Easy Button actually work...

  8. #168
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    I think the real reason behind this thread is that some people actually have an impediment put in their way so that they can't easily farm for all of the goodies like they used to.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    If what you mean by 'a bit slower' is not being able to survive more than one mobs aggro at a time, yes.
    Because 15% hamp and +3 tactical DC's are the difference between one mob at a time and just turning on auto-run? Past lives simply don't make that big a difference. I'm glad the are an option for those who like to have that edge (or more likely getting that edge gives them something to play for), but they have never been needed.

  10. #170
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    You want to run with the big boys, you'd better come with something more in your arsenal than FoD.

    Or maybe you want DDO to make good on it's offer to make the Easy Button actually work...
    So what else does a DC caster have that actually works? Enlighten us.

  11. #171
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    So what else does a DC caster have that actually works? Enlighten us.
    The why are you continuing to whine and complain (I mean, outside of the obvious love / hate bromance with me)?

  12. #172
    Community Member Lycurgus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Oh, so I see now: endgame is Tor or above.
    You'd probably have a better context for participating in the discussion if you were to run anything from U14 onwards using dc-based spells. Yes, Niacs and Eladars kills things. It isn't exactly pertinent to the discussion.



  13. #173
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Whw, that's not what I read when I responded to the post.

    Funky.

  14. #174
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    Facts indicate it was fully intended...

    1) Pale masters rule the DDO world
    2) U14 - Drow and their SR
    3) Casters adopt, beat the SR barrier
    4) U15 - Plants and wisps (imunities)
    5) U16 - Very high saves
    6) U17 - Extremely high saves

    Turbine saw DC casting is extremely dangerous for game balance and is doing something about it. They did the math and made sure that if someone does beat the DC barrier, he himself gets severely gimped in most of the other areas or is forced to debuff and spend a lot of spell points. This, in turn results in a need for cooperation with other players or chuging a lot of store pots.

    Yeah yeah i know - but shiradi blah blah blah. Shiradi is broken - it will be fixed as well... someday.
    This is due to Turbines mob CR design, where entering a mob level and quest difficulty into a field populates the rest of the character sheet with more inflated stats the higher the level goes. I dont believe this stuff was intentional on a quest by quest or update by update basis. I believe it was intentional on the level of the how the mobs are generated in a generic fashion based on mob CR and quest difficulty. Expect stats to become more inflated as the levels of the quests increase as well.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  15. #175
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    So what else does a DC caster have that actually works? Enlighten us.
    Virtually all of your evocation spells.

    A lot of your conjuration spells (with appropriate debuffs)

    Level-draining.

    I thought I wasn't the expert here. You should know all of this.

  16. #176
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lycurgus View Post
    You'd probably have a better context for participating in the discussion if you were to run anything from U14 onwards using dc-based spells. Yes, Niacs and Eladars kills things. It isn't exactly pertinent to the discussion.
    Ummmm...I did.

    You obviously haven't been reading my posts...

  17. #177
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    You know, if someone is not whining about being unable to get past Drow SR, they're whining about high DCs. And once they get that, they then whine about how the game isn't challenging enough, or that anyone can run EE, or that noobs have all the gear they took so long to farm for.

    Which is it? You want challenge and exclusion, or you want an Easy Button?

  18. #178
    Community Member Lycurgus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Ummmm...I did.

    You obviously haven't been reading my posts...
    You've stated you ran a few EE quests on your last life and you never had problems running EH. You've stated you've now run Bargain of Blood using Niacs/Eladars/Icestorm.

    Nowhere do I see a statement to indicate you've run anything from U14 onward on EE using DC-based spells. If you have, more power to you. That simply isn't clear from your own statements in this thread.



  19. #179
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    I think what bothers me about a lot of the comments here is that it is entirely focused on DCs.

    What this content clearly does is turn a wizard into a sorc - which is relevant to DCs -- and narrows the options you have available to run difficult content.

    Still, the only tried-and-true solution that will be applied will be to nerf mob saving throws / resistances / whatever to make some people around here happy.

  20. #180
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lycurgus View Post
    You've stated you ran a few EE quests on your last life and you never had problems running EH. You've stated you've now run Bargain of Blood using Niacs/Eladars/Icestorm.

    Nowhere do I see a statement to indicate you've run anything from U14 onward on EE using DC-based spells. If you have, more power to you. That simply isn't clear from your own statements in this thread.
    Whatever.

    Not sure when I TR-ed, but I'm pretty sure it was post U14.

    And for the record, I used more than Niacs and Eldars. I experimented with a LOT of different spells just farting around.

    But I'm not part of the EE, super-stroker crowd. Is there some list of rules publicshed by the DDO cool-kids that says the use of those aforementioned spells is prohibited? I just wanna know so if I happen to be selected by he cool crowd to run one of these quests, I want to make sure I only use the cool-kid approved spells, lest I cast something so very, very un-cool.

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