Page 2 of 16 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 313
  1. #21
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,943

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    This works, but a better option is 6 self-healing FoTW melees going in there and curb-stomping the mobs with no casters at all.

    Or 6 shiradi Sorcs (wizards after the ENH pass) with MM spam and nerve venom.

    What you stated above does work, it just doesn't work well enough to be close to a best practice.
    It is best practice for a DC caster who wants to be effective in EE. THe problem with jumping on the FOTM bandwagon is the FOTM changes regularly enough. People build FOTM toons then complain when they are rendered less effective, which is exactly what happened to DC casters, which used to be king before the last expansion.

    FoTW should be changed to FoTM, because thats basically what it is, and will continue to be as long as this can be effective without having to plow through tons of past lives. Same with Shiradi. Both of these can be made as an iconic and within a day or two of playing can plow through EE content more effectively than a 6-8 past life DC wizard. This is what is irritating most players who built for the previous FoTM, which was DC casters, grinding (or buying) TR lives to do so.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  2. #22
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    4,606

    Default

    I would be happy with a re-examine of the CR to HD conversion that appears to be curved inappropriately at higher levels.

    I don't want EE to be no fail, but I would like to see that it does not require 3 to 4 debuffs to have a chance at landing.

    Another aspect I would like looked into is the length of a Debuff such as enervation and level drain, it should last longer than it does, in fact it should last just as long as it does for a player character.

    DC casting should be a viable option and I agree it should not be the only option.

  3. #23
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    It is best practice for a DC caster who wants to be effective in EE.
    No, the best practice is to not be a DC-caster or to not play your DC caster. Do you like trying to ice-skate uphill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    THe problem with jumping on the FOTM bandwagon is the FOTM changes regularly enough. People build FOTM toons then complain when they are rendered less effective, which is exactly what happened to DC casters, which used to be king before the last expansion.

    FoTW should be changed to FoTM, because thats basically what it is, and will continue to be as long as this can be effective without having to plow through tons of past lives. Same with Shiradi. Both of these can be made as an iconic and within a day or two of playing can plow through EE content more effectively than a 6-8 past life DC wizard. This is what is irritating most players who built for the previous FoTM, which was DC casters, grinding (or buying) TR lives to do so.
    This has been the FLAVOR OF THE YEAR and NOTHING IS CHANGING WITH THE ENH PASS.

    I'm sorry, after a year it's no longer FoTM. It's now best practice.

  4. #24
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,943

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    No, the best practice is to not be a DC-caster or to not play your DC caster. Do you like trying to ice-skate uphill?
    Jumping on the bandwagon is merely setting oneself up for future disappointment when the FoTM changes. Id rather switch over to shiradi when playing EE on my DC caster, knowing that sometime in the future DC casting will become more viable again. Its had its reign crushed twice now in DDO, due to blanket immunities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    This has been the FLAVOR OF THE YEAR and NOTHING IS CHANGING WITH THE ENH PASS.

    I'm sorry, after a year it's no longer FoTM. It's now best practice.
    Its flavor of the month. Best practice is a per build thing - as I dont wait for the perfect combination of peopel to join to do quests (which is just as bad as waiting for a cleric). I also dont roll toons simply because they are the easy button in this era of DDO. I had a DC caster previous to the expansion which was an easy button, but ive always had that toon and didnt roll it during the era just because it was laughably OP. I also had a melee arty similar to a jug back when forumites were talking about how they wont accept melee artys to groups because they cant contribute enough - right up to the point where those guys on thelanis posted their videos of entire melee arty groups crushing EE content. Then it became FOTM. My bard does the same level of DPS, and has the same self healing, yet isnt an FOTM because theres no video of 6 fury bards smoking EE content yet, heh.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  5. #25
    Community Member DynaTheCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Narnia
    Posts
    735

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unacceptable View Post
    I understand a small segment of the players want EE to be more difficulty, but I don't think tools like CC should be ineffective.
    That's the deal.

    A small segment of the players want EE to be more difficult... because it should be that way.

    Epic Elite is meant for many average players or a few elite players. In some instances, a few solo players. EE is fine the way it is. Not too hard, not too impossible.

    A small segment of the players (wizards) have high enough CC to have effective EE Enchantment DC.

    So... if you want EE workable CC, then you should focus on getting it. Because it is obtainable.....

    It's the fortitude saves in some EEs (EGH especially) that has become almost unbearably high. Albeit, anyone with semi-decent necro DC can still 1 energy drain + 1 finger a mob.

  6. #26
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2,822

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Do you even run EEs at all? I apologize if I'm wrong but I swear I saw you say you don't in another thread.
    I ran a few EEs in the previous life, Haven't run any on this life. I even explicitly stated that in my parenthetical comments about my main.

    At least I don't recall running EE in this life.

  7. #27
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    276

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by DynaTheCat View Post
    That's the deal.

    A small segment of the players want EE to be more difficult... because it should be that way.

    Epic Elite is meant for many average players or a few elite players. In some instances, a few solo players. EE is fine the way it is. Not too hard, not too impossible.

    A small segment of the players (wizards) have high enough CC to have effective EE Enchantment DC.

    So... if you want EE workable CC, then you should focus on getting it. Because it is obtainable.....

    It's the fortitude saves in some EEs (EGH especially) that has become almost unbearably high. Albeit, anyone with semi-decent necro DC can still 1 energy drain + 1 finger a mob.
    DC casting iis a bad choice for the newer EEs. I think it's bad for the game because now I have to exclude many people from quests unless tney have one of the narrow builds that work well for EE. CC allows a larger variety of builds to participate in EE content instead of it effectively being a byoh party of shiradi casters, monkchers and juggernauts..

    The current EE system is restricting builds. That makes the game less fun.

  8. #28
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Jumping on the bandwagon is merely setting oneself up for future disappointment when the FoTM changes.
    it hasn't changed in over a year with nothing on the horizon. And when it does respec.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Best practice is a per build thing -
    Nonsense. Some builds are just terrible. I don't care what the best practice is for a wisdom-based thrower, it's still gonna be terrible.

  9. #29
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    I ran a few EEs in the previous life, Haven't run any on this life. I even explicitly stated that in my parenthetical comments about my main.

    At least I don't recall running EE in this life.
    So you're qualified to make comments . . . how?

    I'm not saying that to be a jerk but you really need to "live" in EE to see what's broken, what works, and to have an informed opinion as to what should be changed to make the game better.

  10. #30
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2,822

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    So you're qualified to make comments . . . how?

    I'm not saying that to be a jerk but you really need to "live" in EE to see what's broken, what works, and to have an informed opinion as to what should be changed to make the game better.
    I got a better question: have you ever run any quests with me?

  11. #31
    Community Member anivaj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    339

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    D&D never intended people to have no fail (or 5% fail due to hard coded rule) spells landing. Monsters shouldnt only pass on a 20 as a blanket statement. The player should be made to target the specific mobs weak save for this to occur. Ogre barbarians and minotaurs should LOL @ attempts to FOD them due to having a high fort save. The entire idea that a D&D game should be played like a munchkin MMO where we build for the same one ability and it works on all mobs all the time is not in line with intended game design.

    SP wise? How about 2 @0 sp + 1 other debuff + kill zone tactics. hypno clickies + crushing despair clickies + SOD, in a huge cluster, then lay down the mass hold. Works like a charm. Mana per mob CCd is low because kill zone tactics are being used. This works RIGHT NOW in GH in EE. The issue I have observed in game is that people cant be bothered to learn debuff stacking or apply it regularly because they got used to zerg plowing the rest of the game and want EE to run the same way.

    Odd, when there was nothing challenging for higher end players they complained about it. Now that stuff is challenging, they cant be bothered to do what is needed to defeat said challenge. Its not a matter of being under powered - its a matter of not being willingto click 2 @ 0 mana cost clickie debuffs in order to significantly raise the chance of landing a spell. Everyone just jumps off the DC bandwagon and goes shiradi, because its easier....but then they complain about that too.......because shiradi can be built to be effective sans having to TR.
    So people should screw around with 2 clickies every time they need to mass hold a mob? I'm sorry, but people would rather run an easy button Jugg or Shiradi than mess around with annoying clickies that take an inventory slot. Also how many clickies do you have of those spells? seems like they would run out before you get to a shrine. Clickies are boring and inane.

    Melee were not meant to dominate at end game in D&D either. An epic wizard would annihilate an epic fighter in D&D. This game is NOT D&D. Give me back my useful CC casting without annoying clickies and let me be as useful as a Jugg or Shiradi. I don't think this is asking for much...
    Cannith - Sorrion - Glassbones - Galodon - Farsnipe
    Sarlona - Glassbones

  12. #32
    Founder Firepants's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Yidland
    Posts
    297

    Default

    If you want your DC based CC to land in EE, you spec for it and build into the appropriate ED (most likely Magister). If you just want to get good DPS in in EE as a caster you can play around with your EDs with more freedom, but you lose the CC. It's up to you, as the player, to decide what you want to do. Complaining that your Enchantment CC spells don't land on Drow (elves - who racially get big bonuses to saves versus Enchantment on top of inherent spell resistance) is like complaining that the fork you have isn't good enough to eat the soup you want. Yeah it can be frustrating to have the character you tweaked and tuned to perfection be rendered useless by the simple mechanics of a mob type, but that's how D&D has always been. You adapt or you quit. If you build a one-trick pony then you deserve to be rendered useless by a basic game mechanic.

  13. #33
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    5,345

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Firepants View Post
    If you want your DC based CC to land in EE, you spec for it and build into the appropriate ED (most likely Magister). If you just want to get good DPS in in EE as a caster you can play around with your EDs with more freedom, but you lose the CC. It's up to you, as the player, to decide what you want to do. Complaining that your Enchantment CC spells don't land on Drow (elves - who racially get big bonuses to saves versus Enchantment on top of inherent spell resistance) is like complaining that the fork you have isn't good enough to eat the soup you want. Yeah it can be frustrating to have the character you tweaked and tuned to perfection be rendered useless by the simple mechanics of a mob type, but that's how D&D has always been. You adapt or you quit. If you build a one-trick pony then you deserve to be rendered useless by a basic game mechanic.
    People aren't complaining about u14 quest saves, it's highroad (humans, wolves), egh (giants, hobgoblin, orc, trolls).

  14. #34
    Founder Firepants's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Yidland
    Posts
    297

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    People aren't complaining about u14 quest saves, it's highroad (humans, wolves), egh (giants, hobgoblin, orc, trolls).
    I haven't had much problem CCing those with a conjuration spec wiz, is there a huge discrepancy with enchantment spec CC on these?

  15. #35
    Community Member anivaj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    339

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Firepants View Post
    If you want your DC based CC to land in EE, you spec for it and build into the appropriate ED (most likely Magister). If you just want to get good DPS in in EE as a caster you can play around with your EDs with more freedom, but you lose the CC. It's up to you, as the player, to decide what you want to do. Complaining that your Enchantment CC spells don't land on Drow (elves - who racially get big bonuses to saves versus Enchantment on top of inherent spell resistance) is like complaining that the fork you have isn't good enough to eat the soup you want. Yeah it can be frustrating to have the character you tweaked and tuned to perfection be rendered useless by the simple mechanics of a mob type, but that's how D&D has always been. You adapt or you quit. If you build a one-trick pony then you deserve to be rendered useless by a basic game mechanic.
    "Most likely Magister" - Why does this sound like it's coming from a guy that does not play casters, much less EE DC casters? Hmmm.....
    Cannith - Sorrion - Glassbones - Galodon - Farsnipe
    Sarlona - Glassbones

  16. #36
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,943

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    it hasn't changed in over a year with nothing on the horizon. And when it does respec.
    The definition of FoTM folks. When it does, respec. However...

    Waiting for 6 of the same cookie cutter FoTM build to join a group is just as asinine as waiting for a cleric to join a group. If youre talking efficiency "best practice" Im more efficient, because when Im in the quest half way through, the person who has to have the FoTM best practice group is still waiting for people to join.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Nonsense. Some builds are just terrible. I don't care what the best practice is for a wisdom-based thrower, it's still gonna be terrible.
    Shenanigans. How many of those have you seen.

    Welcome to the gray area. Everything is not one extreme or the other. Most of it is hey diddle diddle, right in the middle. This is why I laugh wnen people complain because their mass hold isnt 100% fail free, calling it useless even if they are at like 65%, then cant be bothered to use 0 mana clicky debuffs because 2 extra clicks per kill zone is ruining their gaming experience.
    Last edited by Chai; 07-30-2013 at 09:13 AM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  17. #37
    Community Member anivaj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    339

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The definition of FoTM folks. When it does, respec. However...

    Waiting for 6 of the same cookie cutter FoTM build to join a group is just as asinine as waiting for a cleric to join a group. If youre talking efficiency "best practice" Im more efficient, because when Im in the quest half way through, the person who has to have the FoTM best practice group is still waiting for people to join.



    Shenanigans. How many of those have you seen.

    Welcome to the gray area. Everything is not one extreme or the other. Most of it is hey diddle diddle, right in the middle. This is why I laugh wnen people complain because their mass hold isnt 100% fail free, calling it useless even if they are at like 65%, then cant be bothered to use 0 mana clicky debuffs because 2 extra clicks per kill zone is ruining their gaming experience.
    Hmmm....are melees attacks 65% successful? What about Manyshot? Does that only work 65% of the time? No you say. OK, do melees have to swap in accesories at every encounter to make them viable? No again... Well shucks. Then why would it be ridiculous for me to want my holds to be close to as successful as other classes abilities without wasting time swapping gear to use clickies all the time?
    Cannith - Sorrion - Glassbones - Galodon - Farsnipe
    Sarlona - Glassbones

  18. #38
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2,822

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The definition of FoTM folks. When it does, respec. However...

    Waiting for 6 of the same cookie cutter FoTM build to join a group is just as asinine as waiting for a cleric to join a group. If youre talking efficiency "best practice" Im more efficient, because when Im in the quest half way through, the person who has to have the FoTM best practice group is still waiting for people to join.



    Shenanigans. How many of those have you seen.

    Welcome to the gray area. Everything is not one extreme or the other. Most of it is hey diddle diddle, right in the middle. This is why I laugh wnen people complain because their mass hold isnt 100% fail free, calling it useless even if they are at like 65%, then cant be bothered to use 0 mana clicky debuffs because 2 extra clicks per kill zone is ruining their gaming experience.
    You know, I would agree with you, but then I'd be called out for not "living in EE"...

  19. #39
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    46

    Default

    In my humble opinion I disagree when limits the selection of players simply because it doesnt have the build of moment which is currently considered to be more efficient. I have two wizards, one in his third life wiz with all destinations capped magister as asset-based and enchant cc, another that I'm doing a completionist caster at its fifth life. I havent problem doing quests EE because of the difficulties faced adapted my style of game, use magister and tried to maximize my dc within my limits and I confess do Tor EE no difficult.

  20. #40

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anivaj View Post
    Hmmm....are melees attacks 65% successful? What about Manyshot? Does that only work 65% of the time? No you say. OK, do melees have to swap in accesories at every encounter to make them viable? No again... Well shucks. Then why would it be ridiculous for me to want my holds to be close to as successful as other classes abilities without wasting time swapping gear to use clickies all the time?
    I think you don't play meele much... Gear/weapon switches is what we do... ALL... THE... TIME! You wizards are like ddo brats... Imagine - to use a clicky... Unheard of!
    NESALOMLJIVI, Thelanis

Page 2 of 16 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload