DC casting was fine in the pre-U16 EEs. Now it becomes god-mode where is was balanced, and reasonable where it was gimped. And since much of this power comes from HEROIC enhancements necro gets even more powerful in heroics where it was already ubber.
Still have to test the new stuff, not idea if it'll work or not. Anyone gone into the new EEs? Don't post here as it might be breaking NDA.
Turbine needs to not be less afraid to nerf what is broken, that includes mobs CRs.
One is the Level of the Quest - In theory GH Epic Elite content is level 27 to 28. Currently we are talking about (even well geared/multi-TR) casters of Level 25.
If simply being Level 27-28 and the modifications to the Enhancements allow up to 5 points additional for casting stats as well as level 27/28 Gear improvements makes the difference between having to use 2+ debuffs and possibly 0 to 1 debuff to allow for a 70% success rate in level 27/28 Quests, than maybe the answer actually is "More Levels" for the PC.
Just to make sure everyone on both sides is clear, I am not looking for 100% or even 95% success rate against a Mobs "Best" save, I'm simply asking that my success rate not be 40% before debuffs against their weakest saves when I've made an investment towards that end, be it gear, past lives or EDs.
Effective DC casting is a critical component of game balance, and while it may be a good thing for instakill spells to not be able to universally land on even the best equipped casters in EE content (my necromancer winces), DC casting in general is critical, including instakill spells, which are a component of CC.
Effective CC allows for more than just super DPS/HP/PRR,AC,DODGE bots to engage in combat, because it reduc es the risk of a couple of hits killing one's character. This is turn allows some of the more generalist builds, such as bards, non-sneak attack specced rogues, acrobats, tempest rangers, etc, to have a viable place in EE melee without being a perennial soulstone for their efforts, and reduces the need to massively inflate fighter DPS (and therefore end-boss HP, making DPS based sorcs more useful in endfights) to make EE content completable. This allows for a wider variety of character types and better game balance.
Obviously, as devs have realized, OP DC casting can make the game trivial, but as it is now it is completely useless.
I think one of the best ideas to address this was put in place a long time ago, but has been rendered useless due to overall inflation of saves. The concept of each mob type having a more or less "weak" save compared tot he others should be continued and made more meaningful. In old epics, I used to know that my wizard could easily instakill or FTS caster mobs with their weak fort saves, danceball groups of fighters with weak will saves, and burst damage on mobs with lower reflex saves.
Making this "weak save" penalty greater, perhaps to -20 or -30 instead of -10 (which I think it currently is) could make casters, especially the supposedly versatile DC casters, much more viable, which in turn would make many other utility and generalist builds more viable in endgame.
Shmuel Xadin Xadins Errand Mohnster Yitzhak
If some Turbine and melee/Shiradi apologists prefer to make this game geared towards first life noobs running FoTM builds, then more power to them. But if you scare off the players that actually love their toons and DDO, good luck sustaining the game.
But for comparison, that is only one level higher than the Demonweb or Druid quests, which are 25 on EE. But the difference in effective DCs, across only that one level, is very dramatic.
I don't know where the I-don't-even-play-GH-EE folks get their you're-asking-for-an-easy-button nonsense from.
Current level cap is 25. GH is lvl 24 / 25. EE GE is for the top 10% of the DDO player-base at present. When the cap expands, this whole controversy will undoubtedly go away. Because one the cap is extended to 28, you have a problem where you have relatively few quests that can be used as a platform for leveling to the new cap. There are lots of quests from lvls 20 – 23. There are a handful of quests – High Road quests, GH, and CITW to be specific – that handle lvls 24 and 25 which you’ll need to run to move to lvls 26, 27, and 28. Then at lvl 28 people will be running lvl 25 content on epic fairly regularly for farming. This also assumes that there will be a release and/or expansion that will provide contend for lvl 26 and 27 (which there undoubtedly will).
However, if you “fix” the DC problem now pre-**** now, then you’ll all be complaining about how ANYONE can dance mobs in epic content both pre- and post-cap raise to lvl 28.
Your best attempt was to say “Pfft!. Well, you’re OBVOIUSLY not one of the cool kids!” Really. High school only lasts 4 years of your life, it shouldn’t extend into middle age…
(This all assumes that both of you have made it past puberty, I guess.)
The_Troll gets a pass, however, as he has a burning secret bromance thing with me. It’s flattering, actually…
So, if all of you DC-whining self-strokers try thinking a little past “now” into the future, and you’ll see how all of this goes away with the level cap increase, especially when it comes to GH.
Squisshy . . . Turbine agrees with the "cool kids." This has already been addressed with a massive DC increase to those who build their toons right. This of course is a a much dumber way of fixing things than lowering saves but it is what it is.
So even the power-that-be at Turbine think you are wrong.
And, by the way, as far as I can tell I'm the only one here who actually made both recommendations, and highlighted potential downsides to this very problem. Everybody else popped in with an opinion, and cast aspersions, along with copious amounts of hand-wringing over their builds and current content.
However, making changes now runs smack-dam into what's already planned: a level cap increase.
Hence my "easy button" comments. People want difficult content changed NOW, as opposed to waiting for what they already know is coming.
Does anyone know what's going to be included in a level cap increase? Will there be an expansion to the ED trees to compensate? Will their be more epic feats and stat increases? As far as I'm aware no one here aside from the Devs knows that for an absolute certainty.
Necro is now god-mode where it was reasonable in order to become reasonable where it gimped. Power-creep isn't good for games, especially when a bunch of it comes from heroic ENH where Necro really didn't need any help.
A better adjustment would have been to lower the saves in content where it was an issue, paint with a feather not a fire-hose.
That too creates power-creep as well.
Again, I agree with you. I’m just seeing things from a different viewpoint.
Most people here know that there is a level cap increase coming down the pike…in fact a lot of people here know that, and I think you know what I am saying.
Level cap increases - in more form or another – is like a rising tide, and it raises all boats.
Actually, re-reading my post and the one I cited, I'm basically saying the same thing. So no, I'm not looking at it from another perspective.
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