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  1. #21
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    I hate the idea.

    First, you have to run EE or get worthless version of item, which is good only as a vendor trash, or at best, as a placeholder.

    Second, after you complete EE, and loot item with terribly low drop rate %, you find out that it got wrgon random bonus, and its good only as a vendor trash.

  2. #22
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    I am not a fan of random on named items. It makes it more of a pain to get the item you want and sometimes you just decide that it isn't worth the hassle of running x quest or raid that many times to try to maybe get the item you want. I do like something like greensteel with a lot of options where you can craft what you want, even if it can be a little bit of a drag farming the ingredients sometimes at least you aren't completely subject to fortunes whimsy. Now if some of these named items had spots open for some kind of stormhorns crafting(shadow crafting say) where you could add a couple of affects(appropriate to the items) that would be nice.

  3. #23
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    I disagree with the OP. I think this is the worst loot idea since dragontouched.

    Too much junk options in random tables kills loot. Make the items themselves kind of rare drops too and well you just have more JUNK LOOT. Nothing fun about more junk loot being in a game.

    If the devs want random loot to matter they should go back to old suggestion threads about this subject I know I threw out multiple ideas over the years (including skill tomes ...with my suggestion intentionally being about them being random loot drops and NOT more pay2win).
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    I hate the idea.

    First, you have to run EE or get worthless version of item, which is good only as a vendor trash, or at best, as a placeholder.

    Second, after you complete EE, and loot item with terribly low drop rate %, you find out that it got wrgon random bonus, and its good only as a vendor trash.
    Sorry but this is just forum theory crafting as usual in these discussions. Named loot that has two affixes you like and one or more affixes you may or may not like will be treated like almost every other named item.

    Evereyone in the game is wearing multiple items where at least one affix on one item is not usefull or ideal or optimal, or is duplicated on another item. Only people with the most generic builds that have a mapped out gear set that fits like a Perfect puzzle and has NOT ONE WASTED AFFIX can say they're wearing named items with zero overlap, or useless affixes.

    A named item that has two good affixes and one that's random or semi random is just an opportunity. Like everyone does with "EH" and "EE" versions of loot, you'll equip the less optimal one while you look for the more optimal one... It's an opotunity for that good item to become (with the right random affix) a perfect item that is usefull for a FAR WIDER range of character mixes.

    Almost everyone in the game already does this. Except the really odd hypothetical OCD that can not bare to use something unless it has 100% useful affixes with no overlap or redundancy. And I don't think the game should cater to rare hypothetical OCD's

    Tell me you've never used a sub optimal piece of gear or version (Epic Normal or Epic Hard) while you tried to get the optimal version (EE) and I'll call BS. A GS greataxe with only two shards added to it? Carnifex before you got your Drow Greataxe?

    Are all you Epic Sword of Shadows users running around swinging Starter weapons at 25th level while you farm VON for your eSoS? LOL yeah right I thought not. No you're using a weapon that is not as good as your goal.

    In the end this is a theory crafting discussion of people who want predictability or are expecting pure Meta gaming in every aspect of DDO and thus are unhappy with anything that isn't set in stone waiting for them to "farm" versus people who like a little chaos and unpredictability.

    DDO's biggest problem is meta gaming... Everyone knows where everything is, and most of us know how to get there. There's no randomness or chaos to make this boring predicatability more interesting. "Farming" and "Grinding" are not fun... They are a means to an end, that is facilitated by 100% meta gaming, the game could use any random unpredictability it can get. Sure this will make some people uncomfortable, those that want their MMO's to be the equivalent to Farmville, rote repetition, always getting the same predictable reward. Quest selection via "what has the most XP per minute and can be run over and over the most quickly" and loot farming via "shortest path from point a to point b". But games don't actually need to do that, and whats more many of DDO's biggest player retention problems are pure meta gaming side effects.

    D&D players from NWN came over and saw rote repetition no variety no user content, and a FPS like control setup and they left... Dungeon crawlers and RPG fans, come over and find rote repetition zerging for the fastest way from A to B and ZERO reward or need for exploration and team based tactics and they leave.

    More random = less meta and that might be painful medicine to the farmers who actually love to farm, but it might actually be a good direction for the replayability of the game. I support any step that leads away from meta gaming, towards a more organic and un-memorizable game even in small ways like this. Don't worry if you enjoy farming you still have 99.9% of the game that is static and purely meta gamable.
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  5. #25
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    I don't like random effects on named items. It's a named item, why is it suddenly different from the other item of the same name? /confused

    Random effects seem like an artificial why to up the grind to get decent items.

    Now, if the random effect was something that fit the theme of the item, was generally useful, and was limited in number of different options (say, like tor helms), I could learn to live with it. Still doesn't make sense to me, and still hate the artificial way to up the grind, but could live with it.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  6. #26
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    snip
    Our "forum theory crafting" is much less theory than yours. We've had example of Random named items with:

    Dragontouched
    ES Challenges
    CitW preview

    And noone, and I repeat NOONE, liked them.

    Replayability of the game? No thanks. Don't try to make yourself believe than this is the right way to go for the game: we've had the above examples to tell us that you are wrong on so many levels that I don't even want to waste any more time on this than I'm already doing.


    Oh and PS: if you are wearing multiple items with the same affixes, you are doing it not wrong, but REALLY wrong.

    Farm your "oppotunity" items with Random gen loot and leave Named items alone. It worked for the past 7 years, we do not need you to tell us that that suddenly became wrong.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    Sorry but this is just forum theory crafting as usual in these discussions. Named loot that has two affixes you like and one or more affixes you may or may not like will be treated like almost every other named item.

    Evereyone in the game is wearing multiple items where at least one affix on one item is not usefull or ideal or optimal, or is duplicated on another item. Only people with the most generic builds that have a mapped out gear set that fits like a Perfect puzzle and has NOT ONE WASTED AFFIX can say they're wearing named items with zero overlap, or useless affixes.

    A named item that has two good affixes and one that's random or semi random is just an opportunity. Like everyone does with "EH" and "EE" versions of loot, you'll equip the less optimal one while you look for the more optimal one... It's an opotunity for that good item to become (with the right random affix) a perfect item that is usefull for a FAR WIDER range of character mixes.

    Almost everyone in the game already does this. Except the really odd hypothetical OCD that can not bare to use something unless it has 100% useful affixes with no overlap or redundancy. And I don't think the game should cater to rare hypothetical OCD's

    Tell me you've never used a sub optimal piece of gear or version (Epic Normal or Epic Hard) while you tried to get the optimal version (EE) and I'll call BS. A GS greataxe with only two shards added to it? Carnifex before you got your Drow Greataxe?

    Are all you Epic Sword of Shadows users running around swinging Starter weapons at 25th level while you farm VON for your eSoS? LOL yeah right I thought not. No you're using a weapon that is not as good as your goal.

    In the end this is a theory crafting discussion of people who want predictability or are expecting pure Meta gaming in every aspect of DDO and thus are unhappy with anything that isn't set in stone waiting for them to "farm" versus people who like a little chaos and unpredictability.

    DDO's biggest problem is meta gaming... Everyone knows where everything is, and most of us know how to get there. There's no randomness or chaos to make this boring predicatability more interesting. "Farming" and "Grinding" are not fun... They are a means to an end, that is facilitated by 100% meta gaming, the game could use any random unpredictability it can get. Sure this will make some people uncomfortable, those that want their MMO's to be the equivalent to Farmville, rote repetition, always getting the same predictable reward. Quest selection via "what has the most XP per minute and can be run over and over the most quickly" and loot farming via "shortest path from point a to point b". But games don't actually need to do that, and whats more many of DDO's biggest player retention problems are pure meta gaming side effects.

    D&D players from NWN came over and saw rote repetition no variety no user content, and a FPS like control setup and they left... Dungeon crawlers and RPG fans, come over and find rote repetition zerging for the fastest way from A to B and ZERO reward or need for exploration and team based tactics and they leave.

    More random = less meta and that might be painful medicine to the farmers who actually love to farm, but it might actually be a good direction for the replayability of the game. I support any step that leads away from meta gaming, towards a more organic and un-memorizable game even in small ways like this. Don't worry if you enjoy farming you still have 99.9% of the game that is static and purely meta gamable.
    First. If I want do metas what's the problem? If you want surprise don't read the loot list, and make the other players make the game they want. Ps. I'm not a farmer i like change quest as is possible, but i want to know where i can find the object i need.

    Second. If don't want a EE object as placeholder. Placeholder must be easy to find, the name itself suggests this.

    Third. Do you really don't see the difference between:


    1 - Skullduggery Kit
    Int Exceptional +6
    Dex Exceptional +6
    - Random Effect
    Green Sloot

    Only one random effect. Quite good if you need exceptional skill. And


    2 - Stolen Necklace
    Charisma +10
    Random Effect
    Yellow slot

    Decent if there wasn't +11 stat object in random loot. And


    3 - Prison Break
    Random Effect
    Random Effect
    Red Slot

    completely useless if random effect of random loot have the same power?

  8. #28
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    Okay rather than argue subjectivity like "I like meta gaming" and "I don't and I think there should be just a tiny bit less of it where possible" lets talk examples.

    Lets say we have two I don't know let say Rogues and go with that... lets say a Assassin INT based with the typical eMNG/Treason/Rebellion black scale. And on the other hand a STR based DPS Rogue TWF. Lets say both of them are wearing "Meh" Helmets and a new quest comes out with a Helm that seems interesting for both of them. Lets make a Static named with 3 affixes, one of which is more flavorful, and then we'll make up one that has the same two affixes and a random rolled affix.

    Bandits Veil EE
    +10% Skulking:
    While sneaking you move 10% faster, and have +10% double strike chance
    +15 Bluff (or Hide and Move silently whatever)
    Masterful Feint:
    You occasional pull off a feint that fools your target. Automatically granting sneak attack damage on every 3rd strike even if you have Aggro from that target

    Now for the Random version:
    Bandits Veil EE
    +10% Skulking:
    While sneaking you move 10% faster, and have +10% double strike chance

    Random Affix: Chance of +7 or +8 INT or STR (+10 or +11 stat? whatever is in the loot tables), chance of +3 Insight STR or INT, chance of improved deception, chance of a augment slot, chance of any number of possibly complimentary affixes that allow slot consolidation
    Masterful Feint:
    You occasional pull off a feint that fools your target. Automatically granting sneak attack damage on every 3rd strike even if you have Agrro from that target


    The INT based Assassin eventually pulls +3 Insight INT, or a Augment. The STR Rogue wears one with a lame random for 2 or 3 weeks until they find one with Improved Deception (or some other complimentary affix).

    I should think either rogue would take a augment slot, or any number of improved abilities scores over bluff/hide on the static version. In fact if like a lot of people you don't mind using not optimal +6 ability on "off abilities" to raise a Will save by +3 for example... then a +8 Wisdom random on this items is pretty nice... +4 will save... the weakest save for a Rogue...

    This item can have slot consolidators on it like: +7/8 Resistance, protection, +15 or more to a skill, that might be more useful and less flavorful than Bluff/hide/silent. A blue or even colorless Augment (Now the item has +20 vitality, or +5% XP).

    The item has much wider appeal, it is much more flexible, instead of 10% of the player base seeing it and saying "I will get that it fits my build perfectly) 25 or 30% might be looking at it saying "if I get +8 resists saves on that it's perfect, or "Man +10 dodge on that and I can take off another item and replace with X and Y freeing up a slot.

    Everyone who was wearing a Helm that has a stat they need looked at the static version and said "man I'd love to slot that but I need my PDK helm (or whatever, the specifics don't matter) ruled it out and wont bother repeating the quest for it. OTOH if the random affix can replace the affix he or she is already wearing, then suddenly that item is in play again and they will run the quest. They might do it slowly over the course of time instead of farming for an exact lucky roll of a random affix like some poor souls will... but they will still run it.
    Last edited by IronClan; 08-03-2013 at 03:10 PM.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Our "forum theory crafting" is much less theory than yours. We've had example of Random named items with:

    Dragontouched
    ES Challenges
    CitW preview

    And noone, and I repeat NOONE, liked them.

    Replayability of the game? No thanks. Don't try to make yourself believe than this is the right way to go for the game: we've had the above examples to tell us that you are wrong on so many levels that I don't even want to waste any more time on this than I'm already doing.


    Oh and PS: if you are wearing multiple items with the same affixes, you are doing it not wrong, but REALLY wrong.

    Farm your "oppotunity" items with Random gen loot and leave Named items alone. It worked for the past 7 years, we do not need you to tell us that that suddenly became wrong.
    All I can say is "change is scary"... The medicine often doesn't taste good, despite being necessary. The die hard farmers who aren't comfortable unless they know EXACTLY what and where they are getting loot from when they farm are a symptom of what made DDO a hopelessly niche and unsuccessful game.

    Lotto like chances at static items that are predicable and farmable are one of the main reason this game is on it's last legs and dieing fast. Having 0.01% of the loot not follow this predicable and tired paradigm is not going to hurt you: you can still farm the static stuff... or like most of the game's loot, you can ignore it. because that static unchanging nature makes it completely ignorable, and thus no one ever bothers to run those quests.

    The truth is people who farm only for specific items and get angry when they have options, probably are happy that no one runs half the games quests any more... they don't want variety or option, they want safe predictable farming with as little immersion or mental engagement or physical/skill challenge as possible. Literally they want to pull the lever and watch for cherry's.

    Last thing, if you have a character that has no gear with a redundant, non useful or overlapping affixes, you're either lying for the purpose of appearing "uber on the forums" or you have an incredibly bland and generic character build with a simplistic gear setup. Or, you're just amazing and we should bow down to your ability to slot only gear that has no overlap and yet is still best in slot. You don't have a single +1 exceptional ability overlap. a single elemental resist that is redundant, a single Disease immunity affix on your WF character, a single "+15 Intim" even though you have no intim...

    Yeah Like I said, I'm calling BS.
    Last edited by IronClan; 08-03-2013 at 03:15 PM.
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  10. #30
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    All I can say is "change is scary"... The medicine often doesn't taste good, despite being necessary. The die hard farmers who aren't comfortable unless they know EXACTLY what and where they are getting loot from when they farm are a symptom of what made DDO a hopelessly niche and unsuccessful game.

    Lotto like chances at static items that are predicable and farmable are one of the main reason this game is on it's last legs and dieing fast. Having 0.01% of the loot not follow this predicable and tired paradigm is not going to hurt you: you can still farm the static stuff... or like most of the game's loot, you can ignore it. because that static unchanging nature makes it completely ignorable, and thus no one ever bothers to run those quests.

    The truth is people who farm only for specific items and get angry when they have options, probably are happy that no one runs half the games quests any more... they don't want variety or option, they want safe predictable farming with as little immersion or mental engagement or physical/skill challenge as possible.

    Last thing, if you have a character that has no gear with a redundant, non useful or overlaping affix, you're either lying for the purpose of appearing "uber on the forums" or you have an incredibly bland and generic character build with a simplistic gear setup. Or, you're just amazing and we should bow down to your ability to slot only gear that has no overlap and yet is still best in slot. You don't have a single +1 exceptional ability overlap. a single elemental resist that is redundant, a single Disease immunity affix on your WF character, a single "+15 Intim" even though you have no intim...

    Yeah Like I said, I'm calling BS.
    Yawn. More theory crafting.

    "Lotto like chances at static items that are predicable and farmable are one of the main reason this game is on it's last legs and dieing fast."

    Made up from the nowhere. Wasn't dying till now Now, just because you like the changes, it does. How convenient is that? Make assumptions up just to prove your point. I have showed you three Random named items system that haven't gone well. You have nothing to support your point, just making things up out of the blue.

    Oh and just to be clear: my equip could have one affix overlapped and I am not complaining If you can't plan your gear it is not my fault, sorry for you,
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  11. #31
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    snip
    Wouldn't use any of those items that you made up because black scale helm would still be better, and other than the random stat which I think everyone accepts and understands, it works.

  12. #32
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    I think variable is the word to use and not random.

    I don't believe the items have random effects but that they actually have variable effects, there is a huge difference.

    I'm still in the pro group for a small list of useful 'variable' effects on named items. I'm not saying that they need to be on all items but that it definitely means we can get some flexibility in item slotting.

    People keep going back to the same old examples of random named loot as reasons not to have them, at the end of the day the design of the Eveningstar Challege equipment wasn't perfect and I believe another system could have been put in place that still allowed a certain degree of randomness but also would have meant that the items were desirable and the grind worthwhile.
    As for using not wanting random effects on CiTW items as an example of a reason not to do it, this was never implemented in the game, so there is only the theory that this would have been poor loot design so lets not pretend that it's actual proof.

    Dragontouched Armor sort of has its own place in the argument, the original concept of it was poorly thought out, the newer concept of it is better but of course this was essentially implemented too late too really matter, claiming that the original Dragontouched mechanic is the same as what we are seeing here is a little far fetched I believe.

    At the end of the day if we see a small set of variables that makes the items useful to a vastly larger range of classes/builds isn't this better than a small set of items that is only useful to a small set of classes and builds?
    It will all come down to Turbine implementing this correctly and making sure the base items themselves are useful and that the variable effects are useful and potent enough that the end item even with variables is superior to random loot of the same or higher levels.

    As for the weapons, they are junk, this is as much to do with the base properties of the weapons themselves as it is with the variable effects, the base items need to be made desirable with the variables being the little kicker the weapons get to make them more than useful.

    I guess to sum up:
    -I like the idea of small set of variable effects on named items (but not on all named items) but the base items need to be relevant and useful, THE VARIABLE AFFIXES SHOULD BE THE ICING ON THE CAKE AND NOT WHAT DEFINES THE ITEM.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    I hate the idea.

    First, you have to run EE or get worthless version of item, which is good only as a vendor trash, or at best, as a placeholder.

    Second, after you complete EE, and loot item with terribly low drop rate %, you find out that it got wrgon random bonus, and its good only as a vendor trash.
    This is my issue as well. I'm by no means a casual player, but I have problems pulling items that currently have a 5% drop rate. If my "ideal" item is now going to be a 1 in 10 chance (guessing that as the number of potential random effects) of a 5% drop rate on EE for the best item, I'm thinking that anything I pull that I want will be out of random dumb luck. Farming for those odds is just not something I can bring myself to do. 1 in 200 runs for the numbers I'm assuming.

    As others have mentioned, if the random effect was just stats, it could be easier to "settle" for a lesser version and just swap around other gear or augments. If the random effect was simply replaced with a new augment system that mimics the random effects with a preslotted augment (call it gold/silver/whatever so it's a different augment type than what we currently have) that can be removed or replaced, then I'd be much happier. In that situation, even items I don't want might have augments I can use in other gear I've looted so I can loot my "base item" with a meh random effect augment in it, but can replace the augment later if I loot it on a meh item, then just sell off the item I don't want to someone that does. Turbine even gets a piece of the action by selling me a tool kit to reaugment. Win/win.
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    This is my issue as well. I'm by no means a casual player, but I have problems pulling items that currently have a 5% drop rate. If my "ideal" item is now going to be a 1 in 10 chance (guessing that as the number of potential random effects) of a 5% drop rate on EE for the best item, I'm thinking that anything I pull that I want will be out of random dumb luck. Farming for those odds is just not something I can bring myself to do. 1 in 200 runs for the numbers I'm assuming.

    As others have mentioned, if the random effect was just stats, it could be easier to "settle" for a lesser version and just swap around other gear or augments. If the random effect was simply replaced with a new augment system that mimics the random effects with a preslotted augment (call it gold/silver/whatever so it's a different augment type than what we currently have) that can be removed or replaced, then I'd be much happier. In that situation, even items I don't want might have augments I can use in other gear I've looted so I can loot my "base item" with a meh random effect augment in it, but can replace the augment later if I loot it on a meh item, then just sell off the item I don't want to someone that does. Turbine even gets a piece of the action by selling me a tool kit to reaugment. Win/win.
    Yeah I like the gold augment idea, make it so the gold augments only drop from the new expansion and that the gold augment slots are only found on gear from the new expansion.
    I'm still for some sort of variable aspect to some of the gear but maybe special augment slots with special augments is the way to go. At the end of the day what would be our chances of seeing this within the next two weeks though?
    Petitioning the devs to ensure the variable effects are from a small enough subset and of potent enough ability might be a more likely outcome than them implementing gold slots at this stage of development, definitely something for the future though.

    Ohhh yeah and maybe they should fix the base stats of those crud weapons lol.

    Also if they have variable effects maybe they should double the drop rates, just a thought.
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    I'm with you OP! I long for the days of rolling up random loot, and seeing what the party got. Sure, we occasionally grabbed a specific item from our DM, but that was far from the norm. I think a lot of the vocal haters are simply mad because they'll no longer know what the perfect gear set up is going to be. God forbid people have to be slightly subpar, or, gasp, different.

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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Just to spell it out further assuming a 5% drop rate which seems about right, the results below list the number of random effects and your chance to pull what you want. (Assuming I'm remembering my math right which would be x=drop rate, a=number of effects (x^a)*100 for the percentage chance for the item you want to drop)

    10 effects = 0.000000000009766%
    9 effects = 0.00000000019531%
    8 effects = 0.00000000390625%
    7 effects = 0.000000078125%
    6 effects = 0.0000015625%
    5 effects = 0.00003125%
    4 effects = 0.000625%

    If I'm wrong on the formula I'll edit this.
    Your formula's right, your definitions are wrong. x is not the item's drop rate, but effect's occurrence rate. In example, if it's an elemental damage bonus, its 1 in 4, or 25%.

    If one then takes a conservative occurrence rate of 25% for a particular effect and 5% of item dropping at all, the numbers would be:

    10 effects = 0.05*(0.25^10) = 0.00000477%
    9 effects = 0.05*(0.25^9) = 0.0000191%
    8 effects = 0.05*(0.25^8) = 0.0000763%
    7 effects = 0.05*(0.25^7) = 0.000305%
    6 effects = 0.05*(0.25^6) = 0.00122%
    5 effects = 0.05*(0.25^5) = 0.00488%
    4 effects = 0.05*(0.25^4) = 0.0195%

    As you can see, chances are actually orders of magnitude higher! I mean, 0.0195%! You won't be swimming in these perfect items as you now probably do in ESoS shards (the chances are still ~ten times higher for getting one of those), but still, miles better, isn't it?

  17. #37
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceTheHoon View Post
    Your formula's right, your definitions are wrong. x is not the item's drop rate, but effect's occurrence rate. In example, if it's an elemental damage bonus, its 1 in 4, or 25%.

    If one then takes a conservative occurrence rate of 25% for a particular effect and 5% of item dropping at all, the numbers would be:

    10 effects = 0.05*(0.25^10) = 0.00000477%
    9 effects = 0.05*(0.25^9) = 0.0000191%
    8 effects = 0.05*(0.25^8) = 0.0000763%
    7 effects = 0.05*(0.25^7) = 0.000305%
    6 effects = 0.05*(0.25^6) = 0.00122%
    5 effects = 0.05*(0.25^5) = 0.00488%
    4 effects = 0.05*(0.25^4) = 0.0195%

    As you can see, chances are actually orders of magnitude higher! I mean, 0.0195%! You won't be swimming in these perfect items as you now probably do in ESoS shards (the chances are still ~ten times higher for getting one of those), but still, miles better, isn't it?
    So much better lol.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceTheHoon View Post
    Your formula's right, your definitions are wrong. x is not the item's drop rate, but effect's occurrence rate. In example, if it's an elemental damage bonus, its 1 in 4, or 25%.

    If one then takes a conservative occurrence rate of 25% for a particular effect and 5% of item dropping at all, the numbers would be:

    10 effects = 0.05*(0.25^10) = 0.00000477%
    9 effects = 0.05*(0.25^9) = 0.0000191%
    8 effects = 0.05*(0.25^8) = 0.0000763%
    7 effects = 0.05*(0.25^7) = 0.000305%
    6 effects = 0.05*(0.25^6) = 0.00122%
    5 effects = 0.05*(0.25^5) = 0.00488%
    4 effects = 0.05*(0.25^4) = 0.0195%

    As you can see, chances are actually orders of magnitude higher! I mean, 0.0195%! You won't be swimming in these perfect items as you now probably do in ESoS shards (the chances are still ~ten times higher for getting one of those), but still, miles better, isn't it?
    So let me get this straight you are trying to tell us that if you have an item that has a chance of dropping 5% of the time and it has a base set of effects and a variable effect from a subset of 5 effects then there is a 0.00488% chance of you getting the item the item and affixes you want? I don't believe so I think your math may be correct but you implementation isn't so these numbers look like some serious scare mongering.

    You are suggesting there is anywhere from 4 to 10 variable effects on these items, maybe you should run your numbers with only one variable effect as this a realistic scenario...
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  19. #39
    2014 DDO Players Council ishr's Avatar
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    if there's an exchange option for random effects that would be reasonable.

    otherwise the result will be a small fraction of named loot will be highly sought after, with large hoards of useless named loot put up on the AH. it's ALREADY a problem with some named loot that currently exists. boatloads of crappy planar focuses and dragon helms go unsold on the AH, while their good-stat counterparts sell for obscene prices.

    no random loot unless there's a way to convert/exchange the effect, in which case you might as well just make it static, or a small subset of USEFUL effects.

  20. #40
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoasterHops View Post
    So let me get this straight you are trying to tell us that if you have an item that has a chance of dropping 5% of the time and it has a base set of effects and a variable effect from a subset of 5 effects then there is a 0.00488% chance of you getting the item the item and affixes you want? I don't believe so I think your math may be correct but you implementation isn't so these numbers look like some serious scare mongering.

    You are suggesting there is anywhere from 4 to 10 variable effects on these items, maybe you should run your numbers with only one variable effect as this a realistic scenario...
    Nop, his math is right. It's scary isn't it? This is exactly why people don't like random effects on Named items.

    An item with 4 variable effects have a 0.0195% chance to drop the one you are looking for. And 4 effects is pretty much the minimum we have seen so far. Not 1.
    Last edited by Wizza; 08-10-2013 at 05:57 AM.
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