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Thread: blitzing

  1. #1
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    Default blitzing

    i would prefer if blitzing would be an epic moment just like other epic moments and not an op epic hour that takes away a lot of fun from me when there is nothing left i can kill because that one guy in the group makes as much damage as the rest of the group together. thanks for listening

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    Community Member -Zephyr-'s Avatar
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    I would prefer if epic moments were all actually epic moments. Thanks for reading.
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    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    How about bringing the rest of the epic moments up to match ld,fotw,primal(twitch),and sort of gmof (it was nerfed but still nice, sometimes)

    Seriously Blitz etc are one of the only good things to come out of Turbine in the past year+ since they released motu.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post

    Seriously Blitz etc are one of the only good things to come out of Turbine in the past year+ since they released motu.
    Oh that is horeshockey. Blitz is one of those awesomely fun OP things that borderline breaks the game.

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    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Oh that is horeshockey. Blitz is one of those awesomely fun OP things that borderline breaks the game.
    Breaks my a**. It doesn't make you immortal, it just gives a rather large increase to your overall damage. Now, if it worked properly and gave us that 50% dodge bonus, then yes you'd be that much closer to being immortal. However that's besides the point, it's still a powerful ability to play with that's just comical to use.

    Seriously though, let's buff the other epic moments. Everyone does realize the actual epic moment of Shiradi is Rain of Arrows, right? When was the last time ANYONE ever used that? I want to rain hellfire and hail on my enemies and fire an arrows deep into their chest!!

    Or how about the Epic Moment for Draconic? Why can't that actually turn you into a small pseudo dragon, ala Tree Form in Primal? Even do something that would be a complete ripoff of Legend of Dragoon, and give us a suit of armour coloured to our element choice. Hover 6" off the ground, move with increased speed, +10% to all our spellpower, auto-grants Bastard Sword prof, thf, ithf, gthf, shield mastery, Ism, Shield bashing, improved shield bashing, cha bonus to attack and damage with bastard swords, gives that weapon all the damage types associated with your element (including shroud effects like Lightning strike) and an extra 10% doublestrike to it? Cut the cost of all our spells in half and you'd be set. 30 second duration, every kill extends it by 15 seconds up to 10 times. Let's give people the option to turn their sorc into a Draconic Paladin, so to speak.

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    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    I have a strong feeling that blitz is not lining up power-wise with how the devs originally thought it would work. It is very powerful, but a lot of that power hinges on good group dynamics and quests that don't have doors or portals. The fact that a door/portal completely destroys blitz is both annoying but oddly balancing at the same time. However, it's not the sort of balance that should be worked into quests just to keep blitz in line. I shudder to think of portals being placed into quests that need them for no reason other than to keep blitz in check. Add to this the fact that the designer thought that having a full 50% dodge at the same time would be fine (whether it works correctly or not) just shows how out of touch they were with the power level of this epic moment.

    That being said, I use it. I love it. I'd hate for it to be nerfed, but I just can't see it staying as it is forever. Yes other destiny abilities and epic moments need a boost. I have a feeling that we'll see a nerf to blitz before we see any other improvements to other destinies. While other epic moments feel like "moments", the fact that a blitz is neverending under the right circumstances can't possibly have been what was intended. I guess time will tell what will happen with this one, but I will agree that the priority should be getting the other epic moments to at least usable status before tinkering (and probably destroying) blitz.
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    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Make it a sort of group buff like a druids spreading of hate between npcs and stuff. Every kill the group does strengthens the dreads bloodlust. Or slap it on one individual person like a helper buff. Id be real easy to figure out who would get in in the group heh.
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    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    I would like to have an Epic Moment that does not demand holding back in kills so only the Blitz can have fun. I use MB when soloing, in groups I use FoTW. Those casters using FoD, when mobs have only 5% hp left are annoying as hell.

    If the group does not coordinate well, Blitzing will be useless. Then again, in good groups you actually don't have to Blitz. I see MB as a pure soloing destiny for melees. Even the trip effect of its special attacks does not work in ee/ehard GH.

    Overwhelming Force from FoTW is much stronger there.

    I don't know why the dev.s made a destiny, which shines mostly when that destiny is the only melee in the whole group.
    Last edited by zwiebelring; 07-29-2013 at 01:41 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    Breaks my a**. It doesn't make you immortal, it just gives a rather large increase to your overall damage. Now, if it worked properly and gave us that 50% dodge bonus, then yes you'd be that much closer to being immortal. However that's besides the point, it's still a powerful ability to play with that's just comical to use.

    Seriously though, let's buff the other epic moments. Everyone does realize the actual epic moment of Shiradi is Rain of Arrows, right? When was the last time ANYONE ever used that? I want to rain hellfire and hail on my enemies and fire an arrows deep into their chest!!

    Or how about the Epic Moment for Draconic? Why can't that actually turn you into a small pseudo dragon, ala Tree Form in Primal? Even do something that would be a complete ripoff of Legend of Dragoon, and give us a suit of armour coloured to our element choice. Hover 6" off the ground, move with increased speed, +10% to all our spellpower, auto-grants Bastard Sword prof, thf, ithf, gthf, shield mastery, Ism, Shield bashing, improved shield bashing, cha bonus to attack and damage with bastard swords, gives that weapon all the damage types associated with your element (including shroud effects like Lightning strike) and an extra 10% doublestrike to it? Cut the cost of all our spells in half and you'd be set. 30 second duration, every kill extends it by 15 seconds up to 10 times. Let's give people the option to turn their sorc into a Draconic Paladin, so to speak.
    Yes, please. Sign me up for a ticket on the Draco-Paladin train.
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    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    I have a strong feeling that blitz is not lining up power-wise with how the devs originally thought it would work. It is very powerful, but a lot of that power hinges on good group dynamics and quests that don't have doors or portals. The fact that a door/portal completely destroys blitz is both annoying but oddly balancing at the same time. However, it's not the sort of balance that should be worked into quests just to keep blitz in line. I shudder to think of portals being placed into quests that need them for no reason other than to keep blitz in check. Add to this the fact that the designer thought that having a full 50% dodge at the same time would be fine (whether it works correctly or not) just shows how out of touch they were with the power level of this epic moment.

    That being said, I use it. I love it. I'd hate for it to be nerfed, but I just can't see it staying as it is forever. Yes other destiny abilities and epic moments need a boost. I have a feeling that we'll see a nerf to blitz before we see any other improvements to other destinies. While other epic moments feel like "moments", the fact that a blitz is neverending under the right circumstances can't possibly have been what was intended. I guess time will tell what will happen with this one, but I will agree that the priority should be getting the other epic moments to at least usable status before tinkering (and probably destroying) blitz.
    I don't believe the deve intended us to throw a bunch of random "tactics" in the air so we could charge up a blitz before the quest even started.

    I don't believe the devs intended blitz to last for an entire quest either.

    What's "balancing" about it is it . . . oh hell, I can't come up with something that isn't BS.

    Do i think it'll eve change? No, then people might have to start playing fighters and barbs again if they want to do real damage

  11. #11
    Community Member mrphlegm's Avatar
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    As said in this and likely other threads. Whoever was designing dreadnaught and blitz in particular can't possibly have thought through what implications it would have for group play.

    First. My two main characters right now are a barb18/ftr2 and a meele fvs18/ftr2. 90% of the time i use LD on those characters simply because it is so far ahead on the power scale over other destinies that it's just ridiculus (well disregarding the even more game breaking primal avatar twitchers, sweet jesus fix that already turbine)(and yes master's blitz needs heavy nerfing aswell).

    Doing epic elites; when i can blitz it takes almost half the time to do the quest over not blitzing, in groups. Solo and duo with my guildie it probably goes up to 2-4 times as fast due to being able to play much much more aggressive than, for example, FOTW.

    Anyway. This extreme power from a stacked up blitz in an average pug EE leads to the following scenario:
    1. Spam tactics to build the charge. Barbs are probably the fastest since they get an extra cleave to reset MS. On the the FVS it takes forever as it is missing supreme cleave and end up with all tactical feats on cooldown often. Utterly stupid mechanic.

    2. Time to start the blitz. In some groups with high dps this can actually be pretty intense and pretty much the only exciting moment in a blitz. If you time it right and get a blitz going; congratulations! you are now going to account for a majority of the kills during the rest of the quest. In most groups 50%+.

    Since the barbarian generally will be the first one to get 50 it will be the first to start blitzing. Except in rare cases, no one else who tries to start a blitz fighting the same mobs as the barbarian will get any stacks. Fun?

    2 b) Or fail your blitz and enjoy either being left in the dust by whoever else is blitzing or be a gimped version of yourself (pretty soon as a LD, being blitzed will be your "normal") until you can try again. Not fun but i always enjoy a fail state and the tension it brings to whatever system you're gaming.



    Now, of course; maybe the designers intention is that we are going to communicate our blitzes?

    Fair enough and that is how i would play in my guild if we had any other blitzers. And perhaps this is to some extent prevalent in channels where people are powergaming for the quickest completions.

    However.
    This does not happen in pugs. I have literally never ever heard someone try to communicate their blitz and play nice with other dreadnaughts. Occasionally someone will announce that they have stepped in to the quest already and will start charging their blitz but that is it. It is a competition. As much as the idea sounds good it is not realistically feasible for a group of unknowns.

    You, the blitzer, have the alternatives
    a) Voice chatting, keeping track of when people start blitzing giving them kills to build it and then keep communicating if kills still are distrubuted unevenly (power differance, like barb vs a meele divine for example).
    b) s t f u and just charge your blitz, get it going and, as said earlier, be the main contributor for the rest of the quest.

    Which alternative is the average pugger going to choose? The one where you have to talk to other people so you can play equal or be the Hero who slayeth all the dragons followed by a merry trail of minions praising your awesomeness?

    Sorry but you should probably not implement game mechanics that go against human nature unless you want to make a comment on said human nature or society. DDO is not a good platform for that, at least not in this manner.



    So yeah, in conclusion. Nerf blitz. Nerf it to hell. The gameplay that this system leads to, hurts pugging, and DDO. Instead of a group of people taking somewhat equal shares of the glory from a good blood bath you have one Hero and five followers...

    I don't understand how people like -Zephyr- or Charounus can think a big fat easy button like a stacked blitz is even remotely good for the game. Seriously. 250% extra damage. For the whole quest. Do you ever get tired of roflstomping the hardest quests we have or is the quest just a waiting period before you get to the loot lottery at the end?

    The competing meele destiny, FOTW is a well balanced and moderated one in comparison. Well the 10 s no save cc is a bit OP and silly but other than that.

    Sorry for all the words and obvious stuff, but I tried to keep it verbose so whoever designed this system can understand how broken it is. 250% extra damage. For the whole quest if you win a stupid mini game of spamming tactics faster than anyone else in your pug. Had to be repeated, just so absurd.


    Of course, there are some good things. I can run something stupid like a meele cleric and have close to top dog dps and i can clear EE dungeons faster alone on my barbarian than a pug can even fill. The biggest issue with blitz is pugging.

    The "get timed powerup for killed enemies" idea is not terrible but would serve better in something like a raid setting, not as a permanent feature of a character.

    If i were the designer i would change the tactics spamming to something like, perhaps, 15 mobs tripped from lay waste activates blitz and and the blitz itself something much closer to unbridled fury in terms of total power (still higher though since ub gets the 10 s cc), either over a shorter or longer time period, just to give it a different feel.

    Ok i need to stop the word diarrhea now. In the end, this post will probably never be read by the people who need to.

    Well one more thing. Epic moments as a concept are stupid, not fun, and difficult to balance just like instakills. Well, at least turbines version of them. Should have skipped it.

  12. #12
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Kicking, punching, sundering, and stunning air in order to gain an insane amount of character power is hilarious.

    Bards should have a similar one where you dance for 60 seconds straight, and if the mob dances back, its on!!!
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  13. #13
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    I'd like to think that the intention for all epic moments is that they would be inactive for the first part of a quest and would be charged while questing. At a certain average time, lets say 5 minutes into the quest, the epic moment becomes charged and can be used when needed. In short quests, you would have one epic moment burst per quest. In longer quests or raids, you could charge it and trigger it multiple times. This is how I see it in the devs minds while designing it. Something that takes some time to charge and won't be used at the start of a quest, but to be saved for a moment when you need that burst dps of fury or a board sweeper from grandmaster.

    Unfortunately a few mechanical issues as well as balancing issues keep it from operating that way. Being able to build a charge then take it into quests (or just build it at the door for some moments) allows instant access. Blanking of charges at portals and shrines puts a huge wall in place for people looking to save epic moments (unless you're fury and can keep it through shrining). Some moments just plain can't be realistically charged in any reasonable amount of time and some are just not worth charging up to begin with. These are the issues I'd address in order to make them feel epic.

    1. Allow charges to last through portals and shrines. Clear all charges when entering a quest.

    2. All epic moments must be able to be charged in a reasonable timeframe. Sentinel and Magister in particular take far too many charges. Allowing charges to persist through shrines and portals helps somewhat here, but the required total should still be lowered so that all epic moments can be expected to be charged at least once in an average length quest and more than once per quest in long quests.

    3. All epic moments must feel like you've had an epic impact on the battle when activated. Sentinel, Shadowdancer and Draconic come to mind here as needing significant buffs.

    4. Epic moments shouldn't be able to be charged without mob interaction. Grandmaster and Dreadnaught are the biggest offenders here. Total number of charges can come down, but should require mob interaction such as a successful hit to trigger. Charging at the door is lame.

    5. Blitz should be changed so that it's either impossible or very difficult to go infinite with it. I'd be all for lowering the number of needed charges and lowering the cooldown while raising the dps boost and giving it a hard capped time limit. That way you get bursts of uber damage instead of one solid stream of great damage. You would have your time to shine, but when the blitz ends, others can have their moment as well.

    As a suggestion, make it a 1 minute duration, 3 minute cooldown. You start and stay at the full 10 stack boost through the whole minute. No need to kill things to boost or maintain the dps. Add a +10 stackable bonus to all tactics while blitzing to keep with the theme. Lower the stack requirement to 30 to trigger. This allows the blitz a bit more flexibility during boss fights as you can activate it 2 or more times during a single boss fight where now it can be tough to keep a full stack going against bosses. Currently blitz is great for trash and is hard to keep going against big bosses unless you enter the fight with a stack already going. Boss monologuing is extremely annoying as it eats your blitz as they talk.

    6. Primal Avatar needs massive rebalancing.

    Those are my thoughts on some of the fixes to make the epic moments feel more like epic moments.
    Last edited by redspecter23; 07-29-2013 at 04:43 PM.
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  14. #14
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Blitz should not be nerfed in any way shape or form. It should remain as is, and remain that way forever.

    What we need to realize is that from a certain perspective, all the epic moments should be based around the power of Master's Blitz. Primal does this (seriously, how does a tree do so much bloody damage?) and it could be argued that Fury's moment is equally powerful in it's own right (no one is going to argue with an unbridled manyshot, or even just a barb using it in a raid).

    What Blitz was overall designed for, it seems to me, is it was the basis for everything we were supposed to get. It's just so hopelessly overpowered that 99% of all solo achievements that aren't Shiradi or Draconic Incarnation are Blitzing whatever build the player has. Yet that's exactly what it was designed to be. Give the Melee what they want, the ability to solo content that before only the casters were capable of doing. All you need is some way to heal yourself. How do you do this? Well, the easiest way to do it is also the most efficient. Give a % based bonus to damage, and have it based on kills. That way, it scales with time and content, and can be used by any melee build you can create from here on out. What wasn't anticipated was how much and how often it could be used.

    Just remember though, Master's Blitz was already nerfed once before. It used to stack to 100. Now imagine doing 10x the damage you do now.

  15. #15
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    I'd really rather they buffed other epic moments (read: Shadowdancer and Sentinel) before nerfing other things.

  16. #16
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    What we need to realize is that from a certain perspective, all the epic moments should be based around the power of Master's Blitz.
    Dude . . . just remove all other quest options besides casual. It'll have the same effect.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    Blitz should not be nerfed in any way shape or form. It should remain as is, and remain that way forever.

    What we need to realize is that from a certain perspective, all the epic moments should be based around the power of Master's Blitz. Primal does this (seriously, how does a tree do so much bloody damage?) and it could be argued that Fury's moment is equally powerful in it's own right (no one is going to argue with an unbridled manyshot, or even just a barb using it in a raid).

    What Blitz was overall designed for, it seems to me, is it was the basis for everything we were supposed to get. It's just so hopelessly overpowered that 99% of all solo achievements that aren't Shiradi or Draconic Incarnation are Blitzing whatever build the player has. Yet that's exactly what it was designed to be. Give the Melee what they want, the ability to solo content that before only the casters were capable of doing. All you need is some way to heal yourself. How do you do this? Well, the easiest way to do it is also the most efficient. Give a % based bonus to damage, and have it based on kills. That way, it scales with time and content, and can be used by any melee build you can create from here on out. What wasn't anticipated was how much and how often it could be used.

    Just remember though, Master's Blitz was already nerfed once before. It used to stack to 100. Now imagine doing 10x the damage you do now.
    Blitz is overpowered, there is no arguing that point. It should be nerfed as well as the other destiny's should be upgraded. No destiny in the game should allow you to keep it an entire quest. None of that -you need to get kills for it to work **** makes it okay. It's overpowered and everyone knows it. If other destiny's get upgraded to the same power as masters blitz there will be no fun left in this game, it will become to easy and it will get boring fast.
    Last edited by moo_cow; 07-29-2013 at 10:14 PM.

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    Blitz is fine and more suited to solo melee play, it's about the only thing that makes them viable at all. It's not OP, in a group situation a melee isn't going to be able to maintain it. If everyone cooperates to allow any one player to be the only one to do DPS and get kills, then that player is going to look powerful. I don't see Blitzing melee's dominating anything, it's situational and fragile. A mixed group of self-sufficient characters or casters will destroy the same content with less effort. They will also be more versatile and able to recover from errors more easily.

  19. #19
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    Blitz is not overpowered. As I see it, it is meant to be charged inside the quest. But no, people rather do shadow boxing. If they had to do a naked happy dance around their seats thy did that, too.

    Stop the naked dancing in front of the quest entrance and let it be charged only inside the quest. That is an appropriate approach.

    But after that those people in here, who claimed the nerf, pointed to the trees and then the trees were cut. Then other people yelled: save the trees....

    I lold. MB = OP...ridiculous.
    Last edited by zwiebelring; 07-30-2013 at 06:02 AM.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    Blitz is not overpowered. As I see it, it is meant to be charged inside the quest. But no, people rather do shadow boxing. If they had to do a naked happy dance around their seats thy did that, too.

    Stop the naked dancing in front of the quest entrance and let it be charged only inside the quest. That is an appropriate approach.

    But after that those people in here, who claimed the nerf, pointed to the trees and then the trees were cut. Then other people yelled: save the trees....

    I lold. MB = OP...ridiculous.
    Last time I checked, it could only be charged inside quests.

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