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  1. #21
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    I also agree that Lords of Dust and Servants of the Overlord are GREAT quests. Lords of Dust could use a little more variety in the upper levels, but the optionals on Servants really gives it some depth.

    I like Beyond the Rift, but let's face it: it is a straight shot to the end of the quest, without much variety. I run it because I have to, but it is otherwise kinda boring.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    Mired in Kobolds - the one thing that saves this quest is a somewhat interesting end fight. The path to the fight is horribly linear and boring after only a few runs. Even the xp is horrible. A free to play quest should not have an automatic xp penalty bestowed on it simply because it's free to play. XP of a quest should be based on the quest itself and never have anything to do with whether you have to pay for a pack to play it or not.
    Yep and free samples in the supermarket shouldn't be such tiny portions either.

  3. #23
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Yep and free samples in the supermarket shouldn't be such tiny portions either.
    The problem with that analogy is that I can buy the full version of the sample. There is no way in DDO for me to "upgrade" the poor xp in free quests. If I had the option between playing it for free for cruddy xp or buying the pack so I can get "real" xp, I'll buy the pack, but free content doesn't have this option, which is why I think it's poor form to penalize the xp in free quests. For a VIP or premium that buys all packs, there isn't any difference other than free players get to play it without paying. I like that Turbine occasionally releases some free content, but I don't want to feel like it could have been better if it was a pay pack. It's not really nice of them at that point. It's like releasing half finished content using the excuse that it's free to justify the shortcomings.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  4. #24
    Community Member Zillee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    The problem with that analogy is that I can buy the full version of the sample. There is no way in DDO for me to "upgrade" the poor xp in free quests.
    XP pots?

  5. #25
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zillee View Post
    XP pots?
    That applies to all quests, not just poor xp quests. One could argue that the benefit of xp pots is greater in high xp/min quests due to it's % increase. If I'm gaining 200k xp per hour in a "good" xp quest then a 50% pot adds 100k xp in that hour (it's not really that simple but for the sake of argument, let's assume it adds at that rate). If I'm doing poor xp quests, I may only be earning 50k per hour so the pot only adds 25k in that hour of play. XP pots add more xp if you run higher xp/min so low xp quests fall even further behind if you want to factor in pots.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  6. #26
    The Hatchery Galeria's Avatar
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    For the record-

    I hate the fact that you guys have disabled autofill to login to the forum. I hate that you have removed the "remember me" button and I really hate the login timeout.

    I know you think this makes your forum "secure" but all it really does is drive people away in droves.

    Are you building a forum for your players to use, or are you so afraid of what "might" happen that you don't mind losing more than half your participants?

    If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom.”
    Dwight D. Eisenhower



    Back on topic:

    All the creativity is in Eberron.

    Want to ride elevators of light and capture elementals to power a mage cannon and force an overlord back into Khyber? Eberron.
    Want to fight the ultimate creatures of war on the plane of battle? Eberron. Sorta.
    Want to run screaming from a giant machine who warns you he's going to blow you up? Eberron.
    Want to save the city leaders from an invasion from a country of monsters who have used kobolds to tunnel under the leaders' palace? Eberron.
    Want to solve a mystery that is turning the good people of the Saltire district into horrible monsters? Eberron.
    Want to stop an evil clergyman from becoming a deity by turning his own allies against him? Eberron.

    Want to walk down three different but identical tunnels and fight trees and bears? Eveningstar.
    Want to walk through a house with different but identical hallways and fight trees and archons? Eveningstar.
    Etc.

    I really enjoy the wilderness areas in FR and appreciate that they give a reasonable amount of XP. I just find the quests to be really boring.

    There are no twists, no surprises, no alternate paths and very simple story lines.

    I really thought the introduction of "Lore" feats was going to make new quests more varied and give different options to different classes based on their level of lore knowledge, but I haven't seen that system used for anything yet. If anything, they tend to lean towards 5 melee and a healer.

    The players of the game have been stretched out thinner over more levels. Anecdotally, I don't see many newbies coming in and committing to the game. Existing players have become more splintered and with three more levels coming, everything will continue to skew.

    I have no idea why you guys didn't focus in filling in content for the Epic levels before stringing out 3 more Epic levels... it must makes no sense.
    A PUG is like a box of chocolates
    Get people to read your post.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    I almost completely agree with the OP. However, the minute they make quests that are non-linear, you're gonna get the zergers whining about XP/min, and how all new players suck because they don't know the quest.

    The types of quests being asked for have to be long, because anything but a straight shot to the end requires complexity and some element of flower-sniffing to complete. SO I don't think it'll happen, to be honest.

    That being said, I would LOVE a few quests that are sorta all jumbled up. Caverns of Korromar is along the lines of what I think the OP is getting at, which is pretty fun to run, especially with a group. However, XP acquisition dominates this game. If you go down this route you're going to need to have higher XP quests, with longer content of which I have no issue. But you probably won't be able to solo it well.
    I dont agree with this - its the non-linear quests that both casual flower sniffers and zergers alike enjoy.

    If you like to take your time and experience all a quest has to offer you, there is lots for you in non-linear quests to investigate.

    Meanwhile, zergers get the enjoyment of figuring out the most efficient way through the quest, or seeing how they can maximize ther exp by splitting up and hitting optionals at the same time as completing the quest - definitely a lot more interesting.

    Really, it feels like they used to build an environment and put a story in it, now they just take a story and build an environment around it.
    Vlyxnol / Ragedx / Marphist - Completionist of Legit
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  8. #28
    Community Member Enguebert's Avatar
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    I agree wiht most of the posts, FR quests are, at most "average"

    The Lord of Dust chain is great and have an "Epic" feeling.
    Then, when you arrive at Eveningstar, you have poor quests :

    - the one with Werewolves : this is not a scenario for a lvl 19 quest. Let say lvl 8-10 quest
    - the Riddle : seems an ok quest, but sound more like a lvl 10-14 quest.
    - the whole MoTu chain seems very very linear. On the otherside, explorer areas are great !
    - Shadowfell quests (i have only access to the 2 first). Horrible design !
    It is linear, and you have to kill EVERYTHING ! It is frustating to arrive at some plant (that you need to hack) and you can't hack them because there is one monster you didin't killed. That make no sense. If i arrive without being seen by the lizardmen, i should be able to hack the plants and continue my way. BTW, this was not on a stealth char. I just run, killed some lizardmen and as my path was not in the middle of the road, some lizardmen didn't noticed me (and i didn't noticed them) so they don't activated.
    The only way i knew there were more lizardmen was that i couldn't pass the plants !
    A door can block me if i need the key, but some plants : either they are unpassable or they can be hacked even if i didn't killed everyone

  9. #29
    Community Member pHo3nix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    I almost completely agree with the OP. However, the minute they make quests that are non-linear, you're gonna get the zergers whining about XP/min, and how all new players suck because they don't know the quest.
    XP/min has nothing to do with how long a quest is. They could design a quest that real zergers could complete in 40 min running at the speed of light and give it the same xp/min of shadow crypt and that would be fine. The problem is when they design long (and boring) quests and give them really low xp.

    I agree with the OP as well: having to kill everything to disable barriers or open doors is getting old. It might make sense once or twice, but forcing people to kill everything in every quest to proceed is boring.
    Cannith: Hazrael--Nyal--Thalax

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZzpxpzZ View Post
    In the last few updates we have noticed an unfortunate turn for the worse in the content in this game.

    First off, let me say that I am in general pretty forgiving of some of the issues recently in DDO. I dont generally find the various bugs and balance decisions to be game breaking for me and for the most part I do not find that many of the recent issues or design decisions would ever cause me to stop playing.

    That said, there is a very real problem that has started occurring with DDO. For the most part, ever since the launch of the Forgotten Realms, turbine has done a complete 180 on their quest designs. Turbine has stopped producing environments with things occurring in them for us, and started producing plays in which we are puppets.

    It used to be that quests were frameworks whereupon OUR stories were told, objectives were given to us and a miniature world was created for us, and we were set loose upon those worlds to do as we willed in the pursuit of our objectives. If we wanted to stealth, we stealthed, we stealthed. If we wanted to massacre, we massacred. There were secret passage ways, alternate routes, hidden bosses, kobolds you could bribe to steal your foes armor, and so much more!

    Now however, quests have changed into stores that we are merely bitparts in. Recent quests have us enter and follow a linear hallway of events as a story unfolds around us the same way every single time. There are no longer various paths to completion, no longer cool little secrets, or tricks, or obstacles with different ways around them. Instead we are on rollercoasters of story where we have no decisions to make, we only need to do as we are told and watch.

    Now do not get me wrong, a good in game story can be fun and interesting... once or twice. The problem is DDO is a game based on allowing players to consume content multiple times with alts, TRing, the vast complexity of character design choices giving unlimited different potential characters to play. That means that you need to be expecting players to want to run your quests more than once - and frankly completely story driven quests just do not offer that.

    I am currently at level 17 of my 18th life, and I have to say, every single life I avoid quests released post update 14 as much as possible every single life. They are just far less enjoyable after having run them once or twice than the older style of quests.

    I wish that turbine will reconsider their direction for how they design their quests and start moving back to the old epic environments of occurrences rather than the new interactive movies we are getting now.
    You will be surprised then that Shadowfell has some really interesting quests that are asymmetric in nature, special tricks to them and are not all conventional 'rail shooters' where you follow the yellow brick road.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    You will be surprised then that Shadowfell has some really interesting quests that are asymmetric in nature, special tricks to them and are not all conventional 'rail shooters' where you follow the yellow brick road.
    Here's to being surprised, but I'm not gonna hold my breath. Even if it's got some quests with interesting mechanics, if they follow Turbine's current "difficulty" techinique of simply mulitplying mob stats it'll just be an annoyance in the middle of a slog.

    But we'll see. Hope for the best but assume the worst.

  12. #32
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    Just a quick nitpick of lore:



    The Spinner of Shadows is an Overlord. She is a god-like creature.



    She can't hold us during the fight because the Silver Flame is protecting us. The one that hold us at the end is not the Spinner, but Lolth.
    Thanks for explaining that to me. I did not know.

    It does, however, bring up the issue of the Silver Flame being eaten by the flame eaters. It is only an optional objective to keep the flame alive, as I have had it die while soloing as it was too much to keep it and me alive.

    At the point it was gone, my character should have been susceptible to being held with no save. Needless to say, the Spinner did not take advantage of that weakness. Further, when big Sis shows up she dismisses the "mere mortals" as not being worth the time to kill... which would normally make sense, but we just defeated her little sister. Seems like that would at least put us on the radar as pests to be squashed. I mean, we warranted a no save hold, how much more effort would a giant foot stomp to the head require?

    But the larger point is that there are inconsistencies in the game. I don't expect perfection, but it is a little distracting to see prisoners teleport out of their cells after being freed. I'm left standing there wondering why I bothered freeing them.

    Again, these are not game breaking or anything I would consider a huge problem. Just something I would hope would be avoided in future designs.
    Last edited by AzB; 07-30-2013 at 03:16 PM.

  13. #33
    Community Member Lauf's Avatar
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    Completely agree with the OP, would just like to emphasize - enough with the barriers!

    if you want to force us to kill something/someone, make it a quest objective, much like killing the ambushers in coal chamber. being faced with a locked door or a blue barrier or whatever else form of "thou shalt not proceed until we allow you to" just sucks, in terms of both design and experience.

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