1. Don't actually care about that attitude because they're there for a fast and easy completion which is best served if everyone is on his own and just do what has not yet been done / has to be done.
2. Start getting along since they don't fall on those kind of groups often when pugging. Then some kind of "friendship" (lacking of words) happen and they actually start chatting and playing more together. Possibly because the chatting takes away some of the attention and stuff starts getting a bit slower.
Really it's like if you don't like BYOH for what it is. It's totally understandable that it doesn't appeal everyone. I guess experience may vary but I usally see your arguments when it comes from someone that was... not ready for the task but still joined that BYOH groups.
On the side, there are some real "elitist" players that are just like ****** bags in RL. That is true as well and may alter someone's perspective on the subject.
Kal Vas Flam... Corp Por... Corp Por
...And then there was silence
Honestly, never having discussed any of this stuff directly before, I always assumed that since everyone else was running through the traps, they must not care about them and presumably didn't care about the XP either. I thought they just believed that they'd get XP faster by zerging the dungeon than by waiting for the trapper to actually do his thing.
And now I'm being told I'm supposed to follow behind the party and help them gain 15% by being bored? Sorry, I'm not there for the XP... and "BYOH" doesn't tell me "BYO desire to maximize your XP earned."
Well, correction: It didn't used to tell me that.
What it tells me after reading this discussion is, avoid BYOH even more than I was before. I used to think BYOH also effectively meant BYOB (buffs) and BYOT (thieving) -- "every toon for himself". Now I think it means so many different things to different people that joining one is practically guaranteed to lead to my doing something wrong by someone's standards.
Is there some reason why I should want to join a BYOH group?
So why should a Rogue / Arti join a BYOH group when they know that they are expected to stay behind out of the action and trap? I can't imagine why anyone would do that unless they enjoy piking.
Late reply as I don't log in forum so often.
Define contributing in this example pls.
The rest of the party:
1) Trying to get that extra XP (Traps, Ransack, etc?)
2) Doing traps for rest of the party to help out with lesser or no "accidents"
3) Doing optionals and "flower picking" for newbies
If the divine thinks that he can do it better and faster, so be it. Its still at least the base XP in the end.
What I am trying to put out across here is that some divine can do alot more sometimes then just healing some melees who kills about 1 mob/8 seconds each where they can kill 10-20 mobs/8 seconds each?
BYOH = BYOH.
In a BYOH party:
- If a cleric or FVS (party leader) puts up a BYOH group, will you send him a tell to ask if him/her will heal you if you join ?
Isn't it an obvious since its already stated BYOH?????
What do you understand from the word BYOH ?
- So the cleric/fvs is expected to run all the way to melee from 100 miles away (acquiring different quest objectives at the same time) towards melee objective path (through the activated traps and stray mobs - not including mobs not killed cos invisibility was used by the melee) , just to toss that heal to that melee and then run back to his objective and carry on and run back again to the melee when needed ???
- BYOH = free play, heal yourself (regardless staying together, split up), as long as you stay alive and complete the quest, in my opinion. If you don't want a piker (if you insist that the cleric should heal you because you are dependent on someone healing you), then don't start the quest (In progress) and a LFM that says BYOH or BYOH-IP.
Some stories to share:
In a too dependent on cleric party
- Boss at 90% regenerating, cleric around 600 SP
- Melee shouts over mic at cleric "Why didn't you DOT the boss ?"
- Cleric "Saving SP to heal you guys (Melee, Casters, Rangers) and my DOT suxs"
- Melee shouts "Fxxx you. DOT the boss now!!!"
- Cleric reluctantly obeys and DOT the boss
- boss goes shiny for 10 mins, perhaps more.......
- 15-20 mins passed
- Boss at 20% regenerating, cleric 0 SP
- Melee "HEAL HEAL HEAL! Why are you not healing us ???? Why are you using scrolls ??? You are supposed to heal us! Do you know how to play a cleric???"
In a cleric is supposed to only just heal ME group
- Arti has a heal bot hireling
- Caster helped aggro-ed about 20 mobs (undead) and burned them to nothing in 15 seconds
- Caster has dropped to 80 HP and starts drinking pots to top up till full HP
- Arti says "I will not be getting the hireling to heal you because you keep getting injured and acting stupid"
BYOH = zerg in my book.
If I am looking purely for xp, I love these groups. Feeling no pressure, I hang back and let the pros do what they do; if they zerg and complete with their own healing, fantastic. Otherwise, I follow at a safe distance and 1) learn how to be a better player or ask about gear; or 2) clean up for a player(s) who had a bad roll or really wasn't good enough for BYOH yet (giving the benefit of the doubt).
If I want a slower more tactical game experience, I post my own lfms saying so.
Now to be honest, I don't make BYOH groups, because I don't like the idea of telling someone they can't play a healer if they want to join my group, but at the same time all my groups do require some level of self-sufficiency because when I go to do a quest, I am going to to do that quest, now, with what I have, and if someone joins I expect them to deal with the group make up as it is.
Now, sure, I totally get the "I want to kill stuff" for fun mentality, but to be fair, since I often enter a quest solo, my expected kill count is 100%, until someone else joins. So pretty much every mob that was going to die in that quest, was going to do so by my hand, and as such I am not impressed by kill counts, and in some quests, killing the mobs for that extra +25% becomes it's own tedium, but the bonus exp is hard to pass up, I like big numbers at the end of the quest.
On my Rogue life, you can bet I did every trap, unless the group was moving so fast that I could not get the traps done by the time they got the quest done (IE: Speed farming runs). Did I feel like I was missing out on some super fun part of the game during my few month long rogue life? Not one little bit.
I have done every quest in this game several times over and some of them so many times that even after a 6 moths break I still have the place memorized. It has not changed, the mobs didn't suddenly become more fun to kill, so yah, I'll do the traps, because when I had to solo this many times before, I met every mob in that place, and killed them, I know exactly what I am "Missing out on" and, while this just may be me, I didn't find it to be "all that".
Case in point, My clonk leveled up as a healer, I "healed" my way to 20th, in what was pretty much one of the easiest leveling I have ever done, because you know, I had a stable full of melee and arcane, I know these mobs, I've killed these mobs before, my Arcane farmed many of these quests for loot or favor, and when my main was going to start their next life, no doubt that I was going to be killing these's mobs again with a melee weapon, perhaps even solo, which meant I was going to have to kill every last one of them myself.
But on that cleric life, I put a little tag that said "I heal you kill" and I had more people hit that LFM then I knew people even looked at the LFM panel. My groups would fill in seconds, and, healing a group was easy enough, I would trigger my aura and charge into combat, then I would pretend to hit the mobs with my little staff while the rest of the party descended on them like fearless ravaging bloodthirsty beasts. Often times Misadventure would beat my kill numbers, but everyone in those groups knew that I was the leader, I was making this run happen, and I was the one bringing the fun. Their chance to just focus on killing was a gift from me, and you know, I was glad to provide it. Doing something other then thinking abut killing was a good break.
Equally so when I did a rogue life, doing the traps, doors, and playing that part of the game was also fun, anyone can kill, and I mean anyone in this game can kill a mob. That is the most primitive function of any class, to be able to kill a mob, so, I always get a kick out of being able to move beyond that, to go up the ladder in function, to be able to do more, and get the chance to do that more when I do a dungeon.
But maybe that is just me, like I said, when I enter a dungeon solo, I know my kill count can and often will be every mob in the zone, and I view others joining me to share that burden as a welcome reprieve.
If you don't mind moving fast, the real experience of a BYOH group is far different than what you read in one of these threads.
They should toss out the occasional heal of course and if they are a cleric there is no reason not to have an aura but they aren't obligated to heal after all it is a byoh group so if they dont heal I will be meh and go on and be fine with it now if the group wasn't listed as such and they still dont heal I may or may not feel different about it.
The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE
BYOH is what it states - take care of your red bar. If you don't care about your red bar why should someone else care about it?
If it says "zerg" don't expect anything other than XP/min. If it says "farm" expect to be given a task (break boxes, do traps, solo a side, etc.). If it's only BYOH expect a full party cooperation but don't harass people about tossing you a heal or topping you off or removing similar nonsense effects that can be rid off with potions.
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K seams most ppl talk about heroic groups here. Let's talk a about ee byoh groups. Is divine expected to toss heals then?
BYOH at any level is BYOH. Period.
Rules do not change due to level, difficulty, party make-up, etc. Period.
Is this so very difficult to comprehend?
And for the ubiquitous "If you don't want to heal, don't make a cleric." thinkers: You need to get a grip on reality. Those people have the right to make and play whatever class/style they want to. They are not paid to heal anyone. If you think otherwise, you are delusional.
And, now that I have actually played a pure melee build, I have certainly gotten to see the other side of this debate. I played a pure barbarian. I learned that barbs have a choice in how much damage they take while killing mobs. I learned to stay within reach of the hireling(when I used one), not to rage/frenzy/death frenzy when we were in the midst of a large group of mobs. It took me longer to kill the mobs down, but I did not die from doing "full ****** DPS". And honestly, what does 1-2 minutes of extra time on a mob really matter if you get to keep your buffs?
You have a choice on how YOU play YOUR toon. You can choose to build and play to survive without the need for a full-time nanny.
So, if YOU don't want to BYOH, don't join BYOH groups.
Orien: Zizie, Zeelee, Zeeny, Zeety, Zeleste, Zeeby
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