The Sithali, King of Burst DPS (12Mnk/6Rgr/2Ftr) build doesn't put down the bow.
Tulkaw's has nothing to do with a defensive shiradi sorc build.
Sometimes pushing a class means stepping outside what is typically expected for that class.
Last edited by Tscheuss; 07-29-2013 at 12:28 AM.
Je ne suis pas
DDO Alpha Tester
the rules get skewed a bit if you splash or go with a helf dilly... 2 rogue for evasion? a bit more dex for a better reflex... some int for more skill points... cleric dilly for scrolls? need 13 wisdom to pull that off....that comes out of your con and str obviously... and yeah, you'll have a few less HP, and you'll hit slightly less hard, but it opens up a whole world of ways you can "push the envelope" AND add more potential survival to your build. it's better to hit for 300 and be able to save your hide if something goes wrong, than hit for 350 and be a backpack ornament if the mob looks at you crosseyed.
i haven't played a barb yet... haven't really been all that interested, but if i were to start one now (assuming 28 point build.. 32 point in parentheses)...
human dwarf horc helf str 16 16 16 16 dex 8(10) 8(10) 8(10) 8(10) con 18 20 18 17 int 8(10) 8(10) 8(10) 8(10) wis 10 10 10 13 (for cleric dilly) cha 8 8 8 8
nothing is exceptionally low... tomes are more common now, so a couple +2s would easily bring everything to no lower than 10.
The guy solo's raids for fun.
I merely stated the fact that the people I play with in game have a better comprehension on the nature of mutual expectation then what some of the people who have posted in this topic express to posses. If you find that to be name calling, then such is, what it is.
You seem to be of the latter view with your comment that its "not that heavy an investment" to be able to trap. What if I said to someone creating a pure DPS fighter that its "not that heavy an investment" to be able to tank so they are obliged to have that ability? And then you go on to suppose that people who don't play by the class stereotype must be doing so to create drama. Really? Don't you think that maybe people just think of a character concept they want to try and aren't really concerned with what other people think because its their character? Karavek makes the point that someone creating a thief acrobat has no reason to use Int - so why should he just to satisfy other peoples' demand that every rogue should be able to trap?
Did you read all posts? I at least propose that and SirValentine, too. BYOH expects self sufficiency. If you join, and your toon cannot keep up (which you should know before joining), then don't complain, instead keep out of those groups. Even with 4 clr joining don't complain. Adhere to LFMs text or stay out.The point of this discussion has nothing to do with people joining groups they shouldn't. If you read the thread no one proposes that.
That goes both ways.
Further discussions boil down to: I do whatever I want, shut up. Okay, do it but accept others doing the same. You won't convince any vet or person, who just went fine with whatever build they have and completed quests, that something else will be the only way to build a character.
If a random pug filling slowly had the same goal like your guild ee group then you had a point. But first you set guildrun = random pug, which is never comparable. Guilds know each other very well. In random pugs you have to select and ask every little thing. Then, you know the content very well. Random pugs not so much maybe. All in all pugs tend to fill a stereotype tactic and therefor rely on common roles.
Even with fixed roles you can complete FoT, you have to use a strategy accordingl to the group. And finally, why would time be a factor for every player in DDO? Some people do one raid per evening, some play 12h some play only few.... again general playstyle assumed for everybody.
Last edited by zwiebelring; 07-29-2013 at 02:42 AM.
Characters on Orien:
Wanzer/ Klingtanz/ Incanta Superior/ Mercantus
I see a lot of nit picking and trying to lump people into certain groups in this thread......I don't know if some are doing it just for the sake of it.
Other people have talked about those who join lfms in the knowledge that they do not meet the requirements, not just me....and this thread is about BYOH so it seems to me that it is relevant.
I don't understand what vint said about how he thinks rogues who join BYOH lfms and can't trap shouldn't be in there........the requirements was for BYOH not trapping.
For example I have a friend and we tr together and he builds a rogue who can't trap...... thats fine......if I so badly want that trap xp I can splash rogue and arti into my own character. I think the only time I personally would make a rogue or arti who cannot do traps is if its a build im going to be staying in and playing for a long time at cap.......it its just for a tr life, or to play for a while I will invest in the trapping skills. But thats what I think, and what I value im not going to force it onto someone else. Though I would get annoyed at my friend if at anypoint we are running a quest and he starts to moan about missing out of trap bonus xp..............
We do know each other well enough to efficiently shortman when running together. Yet the goals aren't much different I don't think. When I open my lfm's up to pugs they are looking for loot as well. And everyone appreciates a fast, problem free, completion. Yet I've noticed that when I pug content, I can accomplish a similar thing depending on whether or not the group follows directions.
Time is always a factor I'd say. Namely because the difference, in FOT for example, between a 17 min run and a 60+ min run is gigantic. Not merely in terms of time spent. Resource usage factors in as well.
Truly there are players that don't care about either of these things. And while I don't think there is anything wrong with an alternate playstyle I'll actively avoid ones that cost me too much in terms of time, resource use, and patience.
The know your role types are welcome to play that way. They are not welcome to tell me how to play. And they can read my posted lfm's and stay away. Everyone is happier...
Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
And an army of gimp experiments!
That is correct. But only experienced players might think economically. Some people value a general completion or the chance therefor higher than ressources.Time is always a factor I'd say. Namely because the difference, in FOT for example, between a 17 min run and a 60+ min run is gigantic. Not merely in terms of time spent. Resource usage factors in as well.
Natural evaluation I think. Guildgroups containing of roles, tied to their one thing, complete as fast as you do. If the level of game knowledge is similar.
Another thing is ee. Random ee pugs fill slowly on Orien as well. Channel groups fill fast or aren't even advertised publicly. I see many reasons, why an LFM wouldn't fill fast but on the context of this thread it is not tied to self sufficiency. More often it is uncertainty about the own potential.
I state that self sufficiency means nothing if you don't have a learning curve. You will die as a Juggernaut as you will as a Paladin if you do not know, why and how you establish self sufficency (when do you use the scroll, what scroll will you use, maybe just a buff to prevent more dmg, withdrawing from sources, which maintain a concentration check on you, which potions to get, HoT effect or SF pot.....). Hence the OP complaining about bleeding to death in a BYOH group .
Else I agree with you.
Characters on Orien:
Wanzer/ Klingtanz/ Incanta Superior/ Mercantus
Don't blame the cleric for not healing, blame everyone else for not understanding BYOH.
OTOH, in a good, decent group, of very self-reliant people, switching over to healing during big boss fights is a pleasure !!!
Epitaph for Europe : Valete Keeper Devourerque -- honos et laus insint memoriam et honorem vestram. Gaudium et praedas, quos dedisti generose ad gimpes nostris, in cordibus atque nostris sempiternum. Valete atque semper et gloriose in aeternitatem fideles et robustes CCC !!! - I Was a Mournlander ... - Keeper/Lammania/Mournlands/Ghallanda
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