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  1. #261
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    I imagine that if you were only thinking of your rogue as DPS, not actively planning /making sure you had the required points for trapping, you would probably not be able to trap well. And what's wrong with deciding to focus on DPS? Are you not allowed to do what you want with your character?
    Change Rogue to Barb and trapping to healing, and see why this just became totally unacceptable.

    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    I imagine that if you were only thinking of your Barb as DPS, not actively planning /making sure you had the required points for healing, you would probably not be able to heal well. And what's wrong with deciding to focus on DPS? Are you not allowed to do what you want with your character?
    Last edited by Ungood; 07-27-2013 at 06:28 PM.

  2. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Change Rogue to Barb and trapping to healing, and see why this just became totally unacceptable.
    Heh, and healing isn't even a barb skill. lol
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  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    You can insult me if you want, but I said it was what I experienced. I'm not generally known as a liar, but thanks for your opinion....
    Any rogue / arti that you saw that couldnt disable traps within heroic BB levels was absolutely not 'built for trapping'. They were gimped and badly built for that purpose.

    Its funny that I usually see far many more pure rogues failing at traps because they are completely ungeared than I see players with 1 or 2 rouge levels and gear. All it takes is heroism pots / GH from a caster at higher levels, max INT / DD / Search gear for your level, or foxes pots at lower levels, and max trapping skills.

    8 base INT can manage sufficiently with skill boost. 12 base INT can manage without skill boosts.
    Last edited by DDOisFree; 07-27-2013 at 08:44 PM.

  4. #264
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    Heh, and healing isn't even a barb skill. lol
    LOL, I know right!

    People expect my barb to be able to completely heal themselves but think it's acceptable that they can make a rogue or arti that can't trap because it takes "planning and resources".

  5. #265
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    LOL, I know right!

    People expect my barb to be able to completely heal themselves but think it's acceptable that they can make a rogue or arti that can't trap because it takes "planning and resources".
    wait for the "choice" arguments that you make by not building self sufficiency into your build and "its not my problem or Turbines you cant keep yourself alive with csw pots while I play FOTM or fvs/cleric with self sufficiency built in for free". and than we are back to square 1 again and the vicious circle of life

  6. #266
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    LOL, I know right!

    People expect my barb to be able to completely heal themselves but think it's acceptable that they can make a rogue or arti that can't trap because it takes "planning and resources".
    Not completely true.

    A worthless barb that joins my party will at most cost me 10p, and I hate it.

    A worthless trapper joins my party and they cost me 15p, and I really hate that.

    I could care less what class/race you are, but if you slow me down or cost me xp, then we will tango. I could care less what “role” the trapper wants to play, but when he costs me xp, then we have a problem.
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  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    Not completely true.

    A worthless barb that joins my party will at most cost me 10p, and I hate it.

    A worthless trapper joins my party and they cost me 15p, and I really hate that.

    I could care less what class/race you are, but if you slow me down or cost me xp, then we will tango. I could care less what “role” the trapper wants to play, but when he costs me xp, then we have a problem.
    Trapper doesn't trap: -15%
    Barb (or anyone) dies in trap: -10%
    Looks like they would cost -25% in bonus xp.
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  8. #268
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    Trapper doesn't trap: -15%
    Barb (or anyone) dies in trap: -10%
    Looks like they would cost -25% in bonus xp.
    I can't tell you how many good pugs (with good players), that I have been in and not seen a -10p.
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  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    I can't tell you how many good pugs (with good players), that I have been in and not seen a -10p.
    But did you have fun?
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  10. #270
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    LOL, I know right!

    People expect my barb to be able to completely heal themselves but think it's acceptable that they can make a rogue or arti that can't trap because it takes "planning and resources".
    No one automatically "expects" a Barb to be able to heal himself. However, people do expect a Barb who joins a BYOH group to be able to heal himself, yes, and that includes in-combat as well. Either he has to be able to survive taking hits during combat or he has to be able to mitigate/cure it himself. Exceptions do occur but I've seldom seen people just let people die when they are aware of their predicament.

    Just like in some groups no one cares if a Rogue can or cannot do traps, but in a group where it is advertized that a trapper is wanted, then yes, a Rogue who joins should be able to do traps.

    However, in a BYOH group a Rogue is generally less wanted for his ability to trap as he is for his ability to UMD curative effects and self-sufficiency; especially since his Evasion will likely allow him to ignore many things that will hurt other players. If he can do traps too and is willing to, knowing that his groupmates will likely not stop for him to get traps, then that's just gravy; after all extra xp is extra xp.
    Last edited by eonfreon; 07-27-2013 at 10:11 PM.

  11. #271
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    No one automatically "expects" a Barb to be able to heal himself. However, people do expect a Barb who joins a BYOH group to be able to heal himself.
    Isn't this a contradiction?

  12. #272
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    But did you have fun?
    I deal with incompetence 40 hours a week at work. I also deal with it when I go out. When I play the game I do it to get away from incompetence. So yes it is fun to me.

    I understand that some love mediocrity, but it is not my bag.
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  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    I deal with incompetence 40 hours a week at work. I also deal with it when I go out. When I play the game I do it to get away from incompetence. So yes it is fun to me.

    I understand that some love mediocrity, but it is not my bag.
    (Playing a game) + (having fun) = win.
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  14. #274
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    But did you have fun?
    What is this fun? you speak of? DDO is lifes work.....is serious business.

  15. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    What is this fun? you speak of? DDO is lifes work.....is serious business.
    Hush! You will scare the noobs. ;P
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  16. #276
    The Hatchery
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laggin View Post
    Isn't he/she obligated to heal, even a little? Didn't they take an oath or something? Suppose a fighter joined and didn't fight?

    If you don't want to heal, don't be a cleric.
    Wow.

    Good job mate.

    Look at all these replies.

    If I could give you a trophy I would.

  17. #277

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Isn't this a contradiction?
    Nope. The barb isn't expected to be self-sufficient until/unless it joins a BYOH group. Perfectly consistent.

  18. #278
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Isn't this a contradiction?
    No. Why should it be?

    There is an expectation for most Barbarians to be mana sponges and to make "healers" cringe ( although one always hopes the Barbarian has enough sense to invest in Healing Amp and DR and doesn't "roleplay an 8 Int and just charge into the fray with no thought about how to control the battlefield), to some degree, especially in the hands of new players.

    However, there is also an expectation of players who join BYOH to actually be able to survive on their own, to be self-sufficient, and smart enough to know how to stay alive without help from other party members for the most part.

    And since a Barbarian can be built to be pretty darn self-sufficient if he wants to be (yes, this does include knowing when to "run away" even if that means getting a lower "kill count"), with high hit points and decent DR (and PRR nowadays) as well as resistance to holds and such, there is no reason to believe that a Barbarian that joins a BYOH can't "take care of himself".

    Yes, this may even mean that he has to "turtle up" when he's bitten off more than he can chew and let the rest of the group take care of the Mobs. BYOH doesn't mean people don't work together, not at all.

    So, no there is no contradiction. Barbarian's have a certain degree of "dependency" built into them, sure. But in the hands of a veteran player, those "dependencies" can be largely mitigated to the point where he can keep himself going with minimal heals, which he can even provide himself.

  19. #279
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    No. Why should it be?

    There is an expectation for most Barbarians to be mana sponges and to make "healers" cringe ( although one always hopes the Barbarian has enough sense to invest in Healing Amp and DR and doesn't "roleplay an 8 Int and just charge into the fray with no thought about how to control the battlefield), to some degree, especially in the hands of new players.

    However, there is also an expectation of players who join BYOH to actually be able to survive on their own, to be self-sufficient, and smart enough to know how to stay alive without help from other party members for the most part.

    And since a Barbarian can be built to be pretty darn self-sufficient if he wants to be (yes, this does include knowing when to "run away" even if that means getting a lower "kill count"), with high hit points and decent DR (and PRR nowadays) as well as resistance to holds and such, there is no reason to believe that a Barbarian that joins a BYOH can't "take care of himself".

    Yes, this may even mean that he has to "turtle up" when he's bitten off more than he can chew and let the rest of the group take care of the Mobs. BYOH doesn't mean people don't work together, not at all.

    So, no there is no contradiction. Barbarian's have a certain degree of "dependency" built into them, sure. But in the hands of a veteran player, those "dependencies" can be largely mitigated to the point where he can keep himself going with minimal heals, which he can even provide himself.
    its not often I agree with you, but this I can. barbarians are considered mana sponges, but you know you are doing something right when healers get giddy and link how much they just healed you for and healers complaining that the monk, fighter or caster are taking more damage than you.

    honestly, as much as I complain about teamwork and how much I hate zerg BYOH, one thing I do notice more times than not is someone will help with a heal time and again if you show you are trying hard to keep your red bar close to full and using your head while playing.

  20. #280
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    No. Why should it be?
    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    No one automatically "expects" a Barb to be able to heal himself. However, people do expect a Barb who joins a BYOH group to be able to heal himself
    Think about it, anyone who makes a BYOH LFM is in fact expecting every class to heal themselves, (That includes the Barb class) so that would negate the "No one automatically "expects" a Barb to be able to heal himself" when by virtue of putting up an BYOH LFM that is exactly what people expect.

    I guess we could take the avenue that BYOH is really just elitist slang for No barbs, and then you be correct that there is no contradictions in expectation, however if someone posted a BYOH LFM with the expectation that a Barb would even be able to join, then yes, what you said would be a direct contradiction.

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