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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    It wasn't an argument, it was a question.

    Maybe the real problem is people are looking for a fight that does not exist. LOL.
    It's you. It's what I expect :P


    Also... to any hasters out there who EVER cast haste on me - I LOVE YOU LONG TIME!

    (ie don't expect it... but when I get it... I pay attention!)
    ~Thelanis ~ Khyber ~

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    And I gotta say, the few times I did heal a group with my FvS, (cleric was much easier to lazy heal with aura and bursts) I really noticed that I was using mana far faster keeping those two barbs up than it would be used if I just killed the monsters myself.
    Irrespective of what else I've said here, I have seen this before and agree that it is not reasonable for melees to put a healer in this sort of situation.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    It wasn't an argument, it was a question.

    Maybe the real problem is people are looking for a fight that does not exist. LOL.
    "Argument" does not = "fight". You made a point and one of the definitions of "argument":

    "a statement, reason, or fact for or against a point: This is a strong argument in favor of her theory."

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Sure, but that's not the scenario that was presented.
    Lets look at the facts presented.

    1. You admit you "might" have bit off more than you could handle.
    2. Your ranger (a class with an autogrant of the diehard feat) managed to die while incapped.
    3. You felt the need to bring this drama to the forums
    4. You protest quite a bit any suggestion there might be another side to the story
    5. You use a broad brush anyone who disagrees with you
    6. You are quick to assign motives in addition to relaying the facts

    My bet is that there is more to the story.

  5. #125
    Community Member Zibowskij's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    When one joins a group for quest, one implicitly agrees to look out for the team. Therein lies obligation.
    I disagree. When you join a group you agree to the conditions set by the party leader. If you join a favor run do you expect xp? I don't think so and even if you start complaining that you don't get xp it's only your fault. You could have set your -insert quest name- lfm, to run it for xp, but you decided to join the favor one, so you can't demand xp.
    Same goes for BYOH, zerg or flowersniffing lfms. I usually like to zerg in heroic, so I don't join the "everybody's welcome" lfms, cause usually they tend to go to a slower pace and they require for you to adapt to their style. As much as I expect people to keep up with heals and speed if I post BYOH zerg.
    Plus the teamwork argument is usually misunderstood by some players. Zerging and BYOH doesn't mean every man for himself, but every man does a percentage of a quest for example. So if in delera 4 1 person, let's say the cleric goes right by himself, leaving the left wing to the fighter, he's not leaving him to die there. They're simply maxing the xp/min ratio by doing each one a part of the quest at the same time. And that's why you need to be prepared to join some kind of lfms

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laggin View Post
    Yes to this. I'm not demanding the cleric to top me/others in party up. Just when the fight is at its zenith, throw a heal.
    A guy in my guild plays Rogues "which dont trap", Favored Souls which are "Necro builds not heal builds", Wizards that "dont CC or do party buffs" and Sorcs which "only take Force spells". His Ranger "did not carry any melee weapons at all".

    I believe his goal is to create toons in such a way that it is guaranteed to annoy all of us at every opportunity. Although, is Artificer seemed to be set up like a normal XBow/Rune Arm Artificer. Maybe he was drunk that life.

    All said, as long he doesnt die he isnt costing us 10% XP so we dont mind.

  7. #127
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoJester View Post
    +1 Definitely approve!

    Yesterday I saw a party in Orien LFM, with cleric and BYOH.
    The cleric was the leader and no, he was nor ironic....

    Next time i'll reply with not fight (if melee) or not cast (if caster).
    Lazy or stupid clerics exist......
    would you expect a dentist to do a dental checkup at a party just because someone had a toothache?? >_>
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

  8. #128
    Community Member nicro's Avatar
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    I always thought BYOH meant the party would be splitting up to go faster so you'll have to take care of yourself. Most explorer slayer LFMs I see have BYOH because of that.

  9. #129
    Founder Laggin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay203 View Post
    would you expect a dentist to do a dental checkup at a party just because someone had a toothache?? >_>
    if he joined the party as a dentist. yes I would.
    Don't be mean to me or my guild leader will kick your ^*&
    13th Circle, been saving your raids since '06

  10. #130
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    Lets look at the facts presented.

    1. You admit you "might" have bit off more than you could handle.
    2. Your ranger (a class with an autogrant of the diehard feat) managed to die while incapped.
    3. You felt the need to bring this drama to the forums
    4. You protest quite a bit any suggestion there might be another side to the story
    5. You use a broad brush anyone who disagrees with you
    6. You are quick to assign motives in addition to relaying the facts

    My bet is that there is more to the story.
    Careful now :P

    He doesn't take too kindly to having his double standard exposed.
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
    And an army of gimp experiments!

  11. #131
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laggin View Post
    if he joined the party as a dentist. yes I would.
    /facepalm
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

  12. #132
    Community Member mobrien316's Avatar
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    When my battle cleric Praetoreus joins a group, BYOH or not, he keeps his aura going and tosses cures/heals when needed. In all cases he expects people to make an effort to heal themselves, as well as take care of their own curses, poison, diseases, etc...

    However...

    I have been in many BYOH groups where people would actually get upset if I healed someone. Their attitude was "if he needs a heal he shouldn't have been in the group at all." That just makes no sense to me. One group actually booted me after a the first quest in a chain, telling me it was BYOH and they didn't need a babysitter. This was after I basically did no healing other than aura and bursts and I raised one player one time.

    I have no issue with letting mana sponges die the death they deserve. If your character literally requires a heal every ten seconds throughout the quest in order to survive, you're going to die if you're relying on Praetoreus to heal you. But if someone needs a heal during a particular fight, why wouldn't I give it to them? Because it's better for the party if they die, and then I can spend mana or a scroll to raise them?

    On the other hand... If you join a BYOH party and expect the cleric (or FvS, or Bard, or Druid, or Arty, or anyone else) to heal you, you need to work on your reading comprehension.

    Even in a BYOH party, a good cleric will heal when necessary. But if your idea of "necessary" is "every time I get hit" then you shouldn't join a BYOH group.
    All on Thelanis: Archenpaul Sixblade, Archernicus Thornwood, Gregorovic Redcloak, Hermanius Brightblade, Jaklomeo Evermug, Jonathraxius Kane, and Praetoreus Silvershield.

    Cogito ergo summopere periculosus.

  13. #133
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laggin View Post
    Isn't he/she obligated to heal, even a little? Didn't they take an oath or something? Suppose a fighter joined and didn't fight?

    If you don't want to heal, don't be a cleric.
    No. A cleric is not obligated to heal in a BYOH party. However, it seems you have an EXPECTATION that he will.

    Yes, maybe he was a jerk, but I tend to wonder about the other side of the story.

    For instance, how many other people were in this BYOH party? If there were more players in the group, were none of them capable of using heals, wands, or scrolls? Did none of them have a single aid clickie or something. Were they all really reliant on just potions? Or were they just PM or WF/w Repairs?

    On the surface it seems weird to me that there was no one else in the group that could cast heals in some manner besides you and the Cleric, especially as it was a BYOH party. So was there no one else at all that could have helped you out when you were incap? And if there was someone else, why didn't they help you?

    If there were other players who could at least UMD a scroll or wand in your party, then you should be as angry at them as you are with the Cleric, no? Surely, they would have the same "obligation"?

  14. #134
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    It's you. It's what I expect :P
    As I said, this seems to be some issues with looking for something that does not exist, in this case, you seem to be harboring some.. well for lack of a better phrase at my disposal at this moment, I'll just say "butt hurt" towards me, for some perceived wrong I have caused you, I assure you, I have no recollection of whatever it is that you are bent out of shape over that you would approach me this way when I merely asked you a question.

    None the less however, thank you for the answer, and I'll try to remember this hostility you have towards me in the future and make an effort to avoid exchanges with you for our mutual benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    "Argument" does not = "fight". You made a point and one of the definitions of "argument":

    "a statement, reason, or fact for or against a point: This is a strong argument in favor of her theory."
    Be that as it may, I made no point, simply asked Melicat a question.
    Last edited by Ungood; 07-25-2013 at 09:03 PM.

  15. #135
    Community Member Jaken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laggin View Post
    Isn't he/she obligated to heal, even a little? Didn't they take an oath or something? Suppose a fighter joined and didn't fight?

    If you don't want to heal, don't be a cleric.
    How about:

    - Saw an Elite LFM up (No BYOH notice, thought its going to be a nice happy work together questing type, so I join)
    - Divine was in the group (FVS to be exact)
    - Quest started with no notice
    - FVS toss a few buffs before everyone entered quest
    - FVS zergs ahead with BB and implosion along the way and ONLY heals himself
    - Rest of party arrives and struggles to kill strays and avoiding the traps that was triggered by the divine
    - No heals or cure
    - FVS reaches end boss and quest completed
    Move on.........

    My conclusion:
    - It has come to a point when you DO NOT need to play the quest together as a team anymore
    - There is no more team work in DDO anymore.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    As I said, this seems to be some issues with looking for something that does not exist, in this case, you seem to be harboring some.. well for lack of a better phrase at my disposal at this moment, I'll just say "butt hurt" towards me, for some perceived wrong I have caused you, I assure you, I have no recollection of whatever it is that you are bent out of shape over that you would approach me this way when I merely asked you a question.

    None the less however, thank you for the answer, and I'll try to remember this hostility you have towards me in the future and make an effort to avoid exchanges with you for our mutual benefit.



    Be that as it may, I made no point, simply asked Melicat a question.
    0.o

    Um k. I wouldn't have thought my tone came across as hostile. You kind of prove my point with your post. Maybe you just don't get me. Not much I can do about that.
    ~Thelanis ~ Khyber ~

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaken View Post
    How about:

    - Saw an Elite LFM up (No BYOH notice, thought its going to be a nice happy work together questing type, so I join)
    - Divine was in the group (FVS to be exact)
    - Quest started with no notice
    - FVS toss a few buffs before everyone entered quest
    - FVS zergs ahead with BB and implosion along the way and ONLY heals himself
    - Rest of party arrives and struggles to kill strays and avoiding the traps that was triggered by the divine
    - No heals or cure
    - FVS reaches end boss and quest completed
    Move on.........

    My conclusion:
    - It has come to a point when you DO NOT need to play the quest together as a team anymore
    - There is no more team work in DDO anymore.
    You may not need to, no. But it is more fun if you do play as a team. Some people just may not get this though.
    ~Thelanis ~ Khyber ~

  18. #138
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    I will try and help to heal others even if im in a byoh group and I don't have a cleric, especially if they are knocked down or something and can't heal themselves at that very moment, so yeah I will even heal a cleric. And im grateful for any outside healing I get while in a byoh group or any group for that matter.

    What does annoy me though are those who join byoh groups and expect to be babysat ie the guy who runs around with 11hp for minutes at a time and doesn't even try and heal himself. OR those who do self heal then all of a sudden a cleric joins and they then decide to play like idiots, oh a cleric join the group so its his job to chase after me and watch my red bar!!!.

    Anyway hey another BYOH thread........how long till the next one?
    Last edited by NaturalHazard; 07-25-2013 at 09:38 PM.

  19. #139
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    0.o

    Um k. I wouldn't have thought my tone came across as hostile. You kind of prove my point with your post. Maybe you just don't get me. Not much I can do about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    It's you. It's what I expect :P
    In your own words You constantly expect me to fight and argue with you. That means either you have hostile feelings toward me, or you perceive that I may have hostile feelings towards you. Either way the net result is the same.

    To be quite honest, I am ambivalent about you.

    Anyway, I personally don't see this going anywhere, so this is where I say, Good day.

  20. #140
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    What does annoy me though are those who join byoh groups and expect to be babysat ie the guy who runs around with 11hp for minutes at a time and doesn't even try and heal himself. OR those who do self heal then all of a sudden a cleric joins and they then decide to play like idiots, oh a cleric join the group so its his job to chase after me and watch my red bar!!!.
    Yah, this gets me too.

    I mean I understand if they ran out of heal pots mid quest, (Which has happened to me more then I care to admit) but to not even try, or think that because a divine joined that they get to be sloppy, no go there.

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