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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    It's actually funny that nobody cared enough for that +10% xp. and healed him^^. I'd given him a +1 with Cure Minor Wounds and completed. Trololol...
    Someone did. He's whining anyway.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laggin View Post
    if he joined the party as a dentist. yes I would.
    So when the cleric joined as a melee you only expect them to melee, got it!

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDOisFree View Post
    Bringing a hireling is bringing your own heals in the form of a pocket healer. If there's space in the group for a hireling healer, I don't see why anyone would complain. .
    Dungeon scaling.

    Almost guaranteed -5%

  4. #204
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citzen_Gkar View Post
    Someone did. He's whining anyway.
    That is the best part if I read this right the OP never actually died and was a ranger to boot.

    If I understand it properly he went down got some minor heals to get back up and was left to his own devices. Dude you are a Ranger you have healing spells and if not you should have pots afterall you joined a BYOH group!

    LOLz

    This is why I try and avoid the BYOH scene, too many people interpreting what it means to suit them rather than just thinking about the group as a whole and working to complete the quest.


  5. #205
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citzen_Gkar View Post
    Dungeon scaling.

    Almost guaranteed -5%


    off of BASE quest XP only so more like -1 or 2% on most quests considering optionals, boosts, etc.

    And realistically it's better than the guy going down for lack of heals and costing you 10% right?

    I am not sure why people assume that hirelings are going to die. I have it happen VERY rarely to me, you just need to know how to manage them.


  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    I wonder why we never see "bring your own trapping" in quests.

    I wonder how people would react if a group were doing a quest with a lot of traps and the rogue said "I don't do traps, I just evade them" and left half the party unable to proceed.
    First of all your example only makes sense if they really did say "bring your own trapping".

    But more importantly, why would they be unable to proceed? Most quests you can easily complete on a non evasion character without getting traps.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citzen_Gkar View Post
    Dungeon scaling.

    Almost guaranteed -5%
    For most quests I don't care about either of these. The Dungeon Scaling makes things more interesting and the -5% doesn't bother me...again, if it did I wouldn't group. There's a third compelling reason though - for every hireling brought that's one less real person that can join the group. I'd rather keep the spots open for people playing the game.

    I throw up my byoh/zerg groups as a service to other people playing. I know that the groups have been a bit thin this summer so I figure if I'm going to run it anyways I'll give people a TR train to hitch a ride on. I could easily run through and solo the place, so much so that I can easily solo the place with full dungeon scaling as well. In fact, that's my criteria for posting one of those groups - if I can't do it myself with 5 pikers then I won't post a group.

    If someone wants an easy completion, if they're too drunk to find their way through a quest, if they're on a terrible build and just trying to level up for a bit, they're more than welcome to join my groups. I couldn't care less about the 10% when I post these groups. I'll even try to help them out even if that help just involves running back to grab their stone and dropping it at the next shrine on my way by. Sometimes that's all the help I can give them...there's only so much you can do to keep a sub-100hp toon w/ low fort alive in level 7 elites...but I feel obligated to at least do that much and more if I can since I posted the group.

    On topic though...it's really simple. No one is there to do anything for your character. In a byoh group you shouldn't expect any help from anyone at all. That said, we're all playing to have fun - don't be a jerk.
    Tajawuka 9 monk/8 ranger/3 arti AA (3 ranger/monk/fighter pl's) - Toolbots working on Morninglord Cleric life #2 (3 wizard/sorc/druid pl) - Evisra 28 rogue

  8. #208
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    I wonder why we never see "bring your own trapping" in quests.

    I wonder how people would react if a group were doing a quest with a lot of traps and the rogue said "I don't do traps, I just evade them" and left half the party unable to proceed.
    Well this really isn't an appels to appels comparison, it's more like apples to cucumbers.

    That said though you don't see it because there isn't a way for every single toon regardless of build to be able to trap.

    Now if they made Oil of Disarm Trap: light, Oil of Disarm Trap: moderate, Oil of Disarm Trap: serious, Oil of Disarm Trap: critical

    These potions would partially disarm a trap depending by a percentage based on quest level, character level and potion level (in a low dungeon a Disarm Trap: critical would probably easily 100% disarm it in one shot). Thus regardless of how hard the trap was you could eventually disarm it by simply using enough Oil on the trap then I think you would certainly see this show up.

    I mean look at the rather vocal minority of players out there, who to some dismay are becoming less and less the minority in this game!


  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citzen_Gkar View Post
    First of all your example only makes sense if they really did say "bring your own trapping".
    Yes, and they never do, do they? Nearly everyone assumes that a rogue or arty icon means it's covered, and it usually is. Rogues, especially, who cannot or will not do traps are looked down upon and that's considered entirely reasonable. Same with other classes who don't do what is generally expected.

    No, it's not exactly the same as with divines. But there are classes that are simply not designed to properly heal themselves while doing their jobs efficiently, yet now all of a sudden they are supposed to be healers as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citzen_Gkar View Post
    But more importantly, why would they be unable to proceed? Most quests you can easily complete on a non evasion character without getting traps.
    I see people die in traps literally every day that I play DDO. Most often, they are newer, less-geared players with less metagame experience.

    Again, I'm not surprised this game is in trouble in terms of attracting new players. Everyone blames the issues on Turbine, but the community itself bears much of the blame.
    Last edited by Qaliya; 07-26-2013 at 01:11 PM.

  10. #210
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    I EXPECT ppl to try there best. To play with a group when in group and to use their toons abilites.

    So yeah i do expect a rogue to TRY and disable that trap, and i expect a sorc to nuke stuff even if he dies fast. And yeah when i take a divine in my BYOH group i expect it to heal. I don't expect them to run around the dungeon searching for injured (in any kind of group), but i do expect them to drop a heal if in range, not conserve their sp for whatever.

    Still trying to figure out how that is soo unreasonable...
    If people were trying their best, they would reroll if they died in every quest. Let me rephrase that. If they join groups and bring their burden of a toon in, waste a party slot, then they should reroll.

    I am all for playing the way you will, but don’t bring your gimp to a BYOH party. They may be having fun getting a grand tour of a dungeon in the backpack, but not everyone is a friendly tour guide.
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  11. #211
    Community Member kinggartk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paryan View Post
    Just because a class can do something, doesn't mean they have to. To each their own ...
    So a sorc should ignore nuking and be a buffer/melee...if that is what they want to do? Does not compute....,.

  12. #212
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Yes, and they never do, do they? Nearly everyone assumes that a rogue or arty icon means it's covered, and it usually is. Rogues, especially, who cannot or will not do traps are looked down upon and that's considered entirely reasonable. Same with other classes who don't do what is generally expected.

    No, it's not exactly the same as with divines. But there are classes that are simply not designed to properly heal themselves while doing their jobs efficiently, yet now all of a sudden they are supposed to be healers as well.



    I see people die in traps literally every day that I play DDO. Most often, they are newer, less-geared players with less metagame experience.

    Again, I'm not surprised this game is in trouble in terms of attracting new players. Everyone blames the issues on Turbine, but the community itself bears much of the blame.
    A trapper that joins a party that cannot disable is just as bad as a pugger that joins and dies. It is easy xp and one reason I invite them is so they can get extra xp. A cleric healing a party does not give me extra xp, a trapper that does his job does.
    Flabby-Flaber-Flabo--Heifer-Oinks

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  13. #213
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    Since I've been arguing the other side, I will say that I was just in a PUG where, among other things, there was a zerging barbarian with no healing amp who didn't drink pots, and another melee who ran ahead, got incap'ed and then went AFK (I saved him from dying, don't know why).

    I commiserated with the cleric.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Yes, and they never do, do they? Nearly everyone assumes that a rogue or arty icon means it's covered, and it usually is. Rogues, especially, who cannot or will not do traps are looked down upon and that's considered entirely reasonable. Same with other classes who don't do what is generally expected.

    No, it's not exactly the same as with divines. But there are classes that are simply not designed to properly heal themselves while doing their jobs efficiently, yet now all of a sudden they are supposed to be healers as well.

    I see people die in traps literally every day that I play DDO. Most often, they are newer, less-geared players with less metagame experience.

    Again, I'm not surprised this game is in trouble in terms of attracting new players. Everyone blames the issues on Turbine, but the community itself bears much of the blame.
    You were so close to a six star!!!

    Keep trying.

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  15. #215
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinggartk View Post
    So a sorc should ignore nuking and be a buffer/melee...if that is what they want to do? Does not compute....,.
    What's wrong with meleeing sorc ?
    As long as you respect byoh lfm expectations ( hjeal yerself, murder stuff, don't pike ). noone should give a damn about how you built your toon.
    Shahang Nezhat Bellezza Wipekin Farida of Ghallanda

  16. #216
    Founder Laggin's Avatar
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    I was just in a BYOH party as my cleric. Didn't heal anyone other than myself, wanted too but didn't. People asked for heals and I told them if you wanted heals you shouldn't of joined this BYOH party. This thread has shown me the errors of my ways. So thanks everyone, I feel so liberated.
    Don't be mean to me or my guild leader will kick your ^*&
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  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    I wonder why we never see "bring your own trapping" in quests.

    I wonder how people would react if a group were doing a quest with a lot of traps and the rogue said "I don't do traps, I just evade them" and left half the party unable to proceed.
    "Self sufficient" groups often have no trapper AND no healer. What do you do when you have no trapper? And why don't you do that same thing if a rogue or arti joins but can't trap?

    Same applies to divines: what would you do if you didn't have one in-party? Why don't you do that same thing after one joins?

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    "Self sufficient" groups often have no trapper AND no healer. What do you do when you have no trapper? And why don't you do that same thing if a rogue or arti joins but can't trap?

    Same applies to divines: what would you do if you didn't have one in-party? Why don't you do that same thing after one joins?
    If a party doesn't have a trapper, then players must either use timing or rely on heals after passing through. I only met one rogue who claimed not to trap - a horc with a greataxe. Party was ticked, since the truck didn't say anything until he was asked to clear the first trap in quest. There was much speculation about what he had done with all those skill points, since Examine showed him to be pure rogue. Party recalled and reformed without him, and we picked up a real trapper in the process.

    Honestly, refusing to do what one's class does better than any other is deviant, and courtesy demands that such limitations be revealed prior to quest. Doing otherwise is fraud.

    Edit: Fixed a censored word. :#
    Last edited by Tscheuss; 07-26-2013 at 03:55 PM.
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  19. #219
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    If people were trying their best, they would reroll if they died in every quest. Let me rephrase that. If they join groups and bring their burden of a toon in, waste a party slot, then they should reroll.

    I am all for playing the way you will, but don’t bring your gimp to a BYOH party. They may be having fun getting a grand tour of a dungeon in the backpack, but not everyone is a friendly tour guide.
    it may not always be the character though. it could be player skills. if that's the case, than the player should re-roll?

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    I throw up my byoh/zerg groups as a service to other people playing.
    This is mostly what I do as well. I play my healer quite a bit and I have no problems throwing the occasional heal in a BYOH quest. I just take it as "I am not here for the purpose of healing you so I won't chase you down to find you when you get low". I'll heal people IF they're in range. If you can't be bothered to stay in range of the healer, oh well. I don't want to hear any of this "heal plz" stuff. I always phrase it as "so-and-so, would you be so kind as to throw me a heal, I've got a bunch of stat damag--oh, thank you." Wording is everything.

    I detest playing a barbarian but on heroic at least I haven't had much problem even with this archetypal heal-less class, and that's enough to get a TR done.

    I actually had a hilarious barb life playing with a guild group with a Druid as our only healer--I'd charge off and kill things until my health got low then go find the Druid for a top-off. When my health started to get low I'd yell "I'm living dangerously again!"

    With practice you get pretty good at judging how low you can get before you need to run for it. Not always perfect, of course, but having a sense of humor about it and teasing the healer really helps.
    Last edited by PsychoBlonde; 07-26-2013 at 04:08 PM.
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