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  1. #41
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Ok, I'm not one of those DDO stat guys, but looking at the Silver Bow (which I think I have by the way) and a Sun's Fury bow that I got at loot gen, I don't get the love for the Silver Bow, or how it is better than random loot. I think the random loot definition needs qualification.

    The Sun's Fury bow was a BtCoE random lootgen that I got on my ranger pre-Sands, so I'm thinking about lvl 10 or maybe 11. I took it out to sands to try it out when I hit lvl 12. it was an average bow until I got a crit. When that happened I was seeing 100+ numbers per confirmed crit fairly reliably. I could barely believe my eyes. On a crit in the Sands wilderness, stuff just dropped dead. At first, I thought it was a fluke. When it k

    I have two bows like that, which I use fairly reliably all the way to about lvl 16.

    And yeah, the Silver Flame Bow is nice, and will blow the Silver Bow out of the water with one small hitch: the Silver Bow has a ML of 8 and the Silver Flame Bow has a ML of 16. You can maybe use it on one or two quests from 16 to about 20 (assuming that you are already out of Orchard by then). So, those limitations make it a bit of a niche weapon, unless you also have the epic version.

  2. #42
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridge_Dweller View Post
    Why would you calc a weapon's damage without seeker or damage mod?
    To find the base damage.

    Seeker is more along the lines of icing on the cake.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Without seeker items or other modifiers, Ardency can crit for 17-101 against non-flame resistant opponents vs Sinew which can crit for 56-84.
    I suppose you are taking in consideration the seeker for sinew (which has +8 by default) and no seeker for Ardency (which has none by default). In that case, since we are talking about how to do top DPS with bows on their respectable levels, its vital to take in consideration the fact, that players that actually cares about their DPS, will use proper gear to add to it. Ardency crit with +6 seeker (less then Sinew +8) basically favors Ardency over Sinew considerably. Also, even with Imp crit, only 1/5 of your attacks will be critical (suppose no fortification) - on noncrit, Ardency is superior to Sinew by far (base dmg 2d12 vs 1d8).

  4. #44
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellihor View Post
    Could someone do the math for the breaking point comparing unwavering ardency and the bow of sinew with a +5 holy burst of bleed cannithcrafted and with the ee roadwatch?
    EE Roadwatch is 1.73 better then a GS Lit2 and 14.96 better then a Cannith +5 Holy of Bleeding making it the best of the 19-20/x3 weapons (In the list bellow). The point at which a Silver Bow (the worst of the 17-20/x3) begins to beat it is at damage mod 53 - 68 depending on how much seeker you have (10 seeker means all you need is 53, 0 seeker means you need 68).

    Unwavering Ardency beat EE Roadwatch at damage mod 34 - 49 depending on how much seeker you have.
    Epic Thornlord beats it at damage mod 17 with no seeker at all.
    Pinion just beats it.

    Assuming Seeker 10 Bow of Sinew will beat Unwavering Ardency at a damage mod of 124.

    Bow of Sinew beats a GS Lit 2 at damage mod 59 (Seeker 6 given to the GS Bow)

    Code:
    Equations 
    x = damage mod (e.g. Str Mod with bow feat, Favored enamy, bard Songs, etc.)
    s = seeker damage
    Assuming Improved Crit Ranged
    Assuming only miss on a 2
    If you want to assume Point bank shot add the average to x
    
    +5 Holy bow of Bleed Avg Dmg = 1.15x + 0.30s + 21.85
    Silver Bow (old) Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 16.775
    Silver Bow (new) w/1d3  Sloted Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 20.025
    Silver Bow (new) w/1d10 Sloted Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 23.35
    Unwavering Ardency Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 27.125
    Bow of Sinew Avg Dmg = 1.45x + 0.70s + 13.775 
    	(1.45x + 19.375 if you only have +8 seeker found on the bow) 
    Lit 2 GS Bow Avg Dmg = 1.15x + 0.30s + 35.08 
    EE Roadwatch Avg Dmg = 1.15x + 0.30s + 36.8125
    Epic Thornlord Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 33.575
    Pinion Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 46.30
    	(1.35x + 52.30 if you only have +10 seeker found on the bow)
    
    
    Math - Hopefully i didn't mess any of it up :-)
    
    +5 Holy bow of Bleed (1d8+5 19-20x3 2d6 1d8)
    0.85(x+9.5) + 0.3(x+s+9.5) + 0.95(11.5)
    1.15x + 0.30s + 10.925 + 10.925
    Avg Dmg = 1.15x + 0.30s + 21.85
    
    Silver Bow (old) (1d10+2 17-20/x3 2d6)
    0.75(x+7.5) + 0.60(x+7.5) + 0.95(7)
    1.35x + 0.60s + 10.125 + 6.65
    Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 16.775
    
    Silver Bow (new) (1d10+3 17-20/x3 2d6 + 1d3)
    0.75(x+8.5) + 0.60(x+8.5) + 0.95(9)
    1.35x + 0.60s + 11.475 + 8.55
    Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 20.025
    
    Silver Bow (new) (1d10+3 17-20/x3 2d6 + 1d10)
    0.75(x+8.5) + 0.60(x+8.5) + 0.95(12.5)
    1.35x + 0.60s + 11.475 + 11.875
    Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 23.35
    
    Unwavering Ardency (2d12+3 17-20/x3 1d6 Crit:2d10)
    0.75(x+16) + 0.6(x+s+16) + 0.95(3.5) + 0.2(11)
    1.35x + 0.60s + 21.60 + 3.325 + 2.20
    Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 27.125
    
    Bow of Sinew (1d8+5 17-18/x3 19-20/x4)
    0.75(x+9.5) + 0.30(x+s+9.5) + 0.40(x+s+9.5)
    Avg Dmg = 1.45x + 0.70s + 13.775 
    (1.45x + 19.375 if you only have +8 seeker found on the bow) 
    
    Lit 2 GS Bow (1.5d8+5 19-20/x3 3d6 Crit:4d10 Vorpal:4d6 Lighting Strike)  
    0.85(x+11.75) + 0.30(x+s+11.75) + 0.95(19.65) + 0.10(22) + 0.05(14)
    1.15x + 0.30s + 13.5125 + 18.6675 + 2.2 + 0.7
    Avg Dmg = 1.15x + 0.30s + 35.08 
    
    EE Roadwatch (2.5d8+7 19-20/x3  3d6 Crit: 13d8
    0.85(x+18.25) + 0.30(x+s+18.25) + 0.95(10.5) + 0.10(58.5)
    1.15x + 0.30s + 20.9875 + 9.975 + 5.85
    Avg Dmg = 1.15x + 0.30s +  36.8125
    
    Epic Thornlord (2[1d8+2]+8 19-20/x3 1d10)
    0.75(x+21) + 0.60(x+s+21) + 0.95(5.5)
    1.35x + 0.60s + 28.35 + 5.225
    Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 33.575
    
    Pinion (2.5[2d6]+8 19-20/x3 3d6 1d10)
    0.75(x+25.5) + 0.60(x+s+25.5) + 0.95(12.5)
    1.35x + 0.60s + 34.425 + 11.875
    Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 46.30
    (1.35x + 52.30 if you only have +10 seeker found on the bow)
    
    
    Silver Bow w/1d10 sloted vs EE Roadwatch
    1.35x+ 0.60s + 23.35 > 1.15x + 0.30s + 36.8125
    0.20x + 0.30s > 13.4625
    68 - 53
    
    Bow of Sinew will beat Unwavering Ardency
    1.45x + 0.70s + 13.775 > 1.35x + 0.60s + 27.125
    0.10x + () > 13.35
    7.75
    12.35
    77.5
    123.5
    
    Unwavering Ardency vs EE Roadwatch
    1.35x + 0.60s + 27.125 > 1.15x + 0.30s + 36.8125
    0.20x + 0.3s > 9.6875
    49
    34
    
    Bow of Sinew Avg Dmg = 1.45x + 0.70s + 13.775 
    	(1.45x + 19.375 if you only have +8 seeker found on the bow) 
    Lit 2 GS Bow Avg Dmg = 1.15x + 0.30s + 35.08 
    
    1.8
    1.45x + 19.375 > 1.15x + 36.88
    0.3x > 17.505
    59

  5. #45
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Character stats must be taken into consideration. If you dont have bow str, then all the way up to 25 (and likely 28) the gnollish war bow will be best for you on a high str melee built toon. This bow has bow strength feat that it grants when it is equipped.

    If you are an archer toon, the silver bow is still legit to 20. Yeah there are better weapons, but one is raid farmed, and one is an end reward from the madness series chain. BTC and BTA respectively. New version of silver bow is BTCOE. Old version is unbound.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    This was kind of my thought from the beginning.
    I'm seeing vets tell newer players, or players new to archery in DDO that the Silver Bow is such an amazing bow. (Which I'm not denying.)

    But that line of thought, at least to me, is extremely misleading. What I mean is that any average player isn't going to have access to the buffs and gear needed to make the Silver Bow all that more amazing than the Bow of the Elements(Air/Ice), or even a large number of lootgen bows. Of course I would still tell the person to get one. It's a very versatile bow, with easy DR breaking capabilities, and a red slot. But saying things like "It's one of the highest DPS bow in the game" (actual quote from a vet in a pug, and is part of the reason I started this thread) is very shortsighted and gives newer players the wrong impression I think.

    These kind of statements to me imply that the "Highest DPS" weapons are the only ones that matter, and don't seem to take into account the circumstances that make these weapons so great; I feel that they also undercut the value of CC weapons(Paralyzers and the like).

    I suppose I just want people to put a little more thought into the types of things that they say when throwing out information. Especially to ignorant players.
    The problem is that you have almost as ignorant players giving advise to those ignorant players. Basically, you have someone who skimmed a post that explained what makes a silver bow so good and skipped past all the TLDR specifics that explained how and why that was the case and was just comfortable in the knowledge that an explanation was given.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Character stats must be taken into consideration. If you dont have bow str, then all the way up to 25 (and likely 28) the gnollish war bow will be best for you on a high str melee built toon. This bow has bow strength feat that it grants when it is equipped.
    Without bow strength, most melees are best off using throwers for their range needs. Throwers give str mod to damage.

    I typically craft mine using flametouched iron returning throwing axes to break dr/good:

    ML1: of Ranged Alacrity 10%
    ML3: Screaming of Ranged Alacrity 10%
    ML13: +5 Screaming of Ranged Alacrity 10%

    No muss no fuss.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Without bow strength, most melees are best off using throwers for their range needs. Throwers give str mod to damage.

    I typically craft mine using flametouched iron returning throwing axes to break dr/good:

    ML1: of Ranged Alacrity 10%
    ML3: Screaming of Ranged Alacrity 10%
    ML13: +5 Screaming of Ranged Alacrity 10%

    No muss no fuss.
    I like keen myself for the prefix.

  9. #49
    Community Member Robai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Without bow strength, most melees are best off using throwers for their range needs. Throwers give str mod to damage.

    I typically craft mine using flametouched iron returning throwing axes to break dr/good:

    ML1: of Ranged Alacrity 10%
    ML3: Screaming of Ranged Alacrity 10%
    ML13: +5 Screaming of Ranged Alacrity 10%

    No muss no fuss.
    Ranged alacrity on bow? I usually craft it on hat (unless you can't make flexible shard, Trinket is not an option, I always put Greater Bold trinket there on non casters).
    Better put on weapons only the dps bonus that can't be put on elsewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Character stats must be taken into consideration. If you dont have bow str, then all the way up to 25 (and likely 28) the gnollish war bow will be best for you on a high str melee built toon. This bow has bow strength feat that it grants when it is equipped.

    If you are an archer toon, the silver bow is still legit to 20. Yeah there are better weapons, but one is raid farmed, and one is an end reward from the madness series chain. BTC and BTA respectively. New version of silver bow is BTCOE. Old version is unbound.
    Indeed,
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Gnollish_War_Bow
    is nice since it's BtA ML12, which can be upgraded (becomes BtC, stay ML12).
    I like this upgrade:
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Petrifying_War_Bow
    Last edited by TheRobai; 07-25-2013 at 06:02 PM.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    EE Roadwatch is 1.73 better then a GS Lit2 and 14.96 better then a Cannith +5 Holy of Bleeding making it the best of the 19-20/x3 weapons (In the list bellow). The point at which a Silver Bow (the worst of the 17-20/x3) begins to beat it is at damage mod 53 - 68 depending on how much seeker you have (10 seeker means all you need is 53, 0 seeker means you need 68).

    Unwavering Ardency beat EE Roadwatch at damage mod 34 - 49 depending on how much seeker you have.
    Epic Thornlord beats it at damage mod 17 with no seeker at all.
    Pinion just beats it.

    Assuming Seeker 10 Bow of Sinew will beat Unwavering Ardency at a damage mod of 124.

    Bow of Sinew beats a GS Lit 2 at damage mod 59 (Seeker 6 given to the GS Bow)

    Code:
    Equations 
    x = damage mod (e.g. Str Mod with bow feat, Favored enamy, bard Songs, etc.)
    s = seeker damage
    Assuming Improved Crit Ranged
    Assuming only miss on a 2
    If you want to assume Point bank shot add the average to x
    
    +5 Holy bow of Bleed Avg Dmg = 1.15x + 0.30s + 21.85
    Silver Bow (old) Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 16.775
    Silver Bow (new) w/1d3  Sloted Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 20.025
    Silver Bow (new) w/1d10 Sloted Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 23.35
    Unwavering Ardency Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 27.125
    Bow of Sinew Avg Dmg = 1.45x + 0.70s + 13.775 
    	(1.45x + 19.375 if you only have +8 seeker found on the bow) 
    Lit 2 GS Bow Avg Dmg = 1.15x + 0.30s + 35.08 
    EE Roadwatch Avg Dmg = 1.15x + 0.30s + 36.8125
    Epic Thornlord Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 33.575
    Pinion Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 46.30
    	(1.35x + 52.30 if you only have +10 seeker found on the bow)
    
    
    Math - Hopefully i didn't mess any of it up :-)
    
    +5 Holy bow of Bleed (1d8+5 19-20x3 2d6 1d8)
    0.85(x+9.5) + 0.3(x+s+9.5) + 0.95(11.5)
    1.15x + 0.30s + 10.925 + 10.925
    Avg Dmg = 1.15x + 0.30s + 21.85
    
    Silver Bow (old) (1d10+2 17-20/x3 2d6)
    0.75(x+7.5) + 0.60(x+7.5) + 0.95(7)
    1.35x + 0.60s + 10.125 + 6.65
    Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 16.775
    
    Silver Bow (new) (1d10+3 17-20/x3 2d6 + 1d3)
    0.75(x+8.5) + 0.60(x+8.5) + 0.95(9)
    1.35x + 0.60s + 11.475 + 8.55
    Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 20.025
    
    Silver Bow (new) (1d10+3 17-20/x3 2d6 + 1d10)
    0.75(x+8.5) + 0.60(x+8.5) + 0.95(12.5)
    1.35x + 0.60s + 11.475 + 11.875
    Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 23.35
    
    Unwavering Ardency (2d12+3 17-20/x3 1d6 Crit:2d10)
    0.75(x+16) + 0.6(x+s+16) + 0.95(3.5) + 0.2(11)
    1.35x + 0.60s + 21.60 + 3.325 + 2.20
    Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 27.125
    
    Bow of Sinew (1d8+5 17-18/x3 19-20/x4)
    0.75(x+9.5) + 0.30(x+s+9.5) + 0.40(x+s+9.5)
    Avg Dmg = 1.45x + 0.70s + 13.775 
    (1.45x + 19.375 if you only have +8 seeker found on the bow) 
    
    Lit 2 GS Bow (1.5d8+5 19-20/x3 3d6 Crit:4d10 Vorpal:4d6 Lighting Strike)  
    0.85(x+11.75) + 0.30(x+s+11.75) + 0.95(19.65) + 0.10(22) + 0.05(14)
    1.15x + 0.30s + 13.5125 + 18.6675 + 2.2 + 0.7
    Avg Dmg = 1.15x + 0.30s + 35.08 
    
    EE Roadwatch (2.5d8+7 19-20/x3  3d6 Crit: 13d8
    0.85(x+18.25) + 0.30(x+s+18.25) + 0.95(10.5) + 0.10(58.5)
    1.15x + 0.30s + 20.9875 + 9.975 + 5.85
    Avg Dmg = 1.15x + 0.30s +  36.8125
    
    Epic Thornlord (2[1d8+2]+8 19-20/x3 1d10)
    0.75(x+21) + 0.60(x+s+21) + 0.95(5.5)
    1.35x + 0.60s + 28.35 + 5.225
    Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 33.575
    
    Pinion (2.5[2d6]+8 19-20/x3 3d6 1d10)
    0.75(x+25.5) + 0.60(x+s+25.5) + 0.95(12.5)
    1.35x + 0.60s + 34.425 + 11.875
    Avg Dmg = 1.35x + 0.60s + 46.30
    (1.35x + 52.30 if you only have +10 seeker found on the bow)
    
    
    Silver Bow w/1d10 sloted vs EE Roadwatch
    1.35x+ 0.60s + 23.35 > 1.15x + 0.30s + 36.8125
    0.20x + 0.30s > 13.4625
    68 - 53
    
    Bow of Sinew will beat Unwavering Ardency
    1.45x + 0.70s + 13.775 > 1.35x + 0.60s + 27.125
    0.10x + () > 13.35
    7.75
    12.35
    77.5
    123.5
    
    Unwavering Ardency vs EE Roadwatch
    1.35x + 0.60s + 27.125 > 1.15x + 0.30s + 36.8125
    0.20x + 0.3s > 9.6875
    49
    34
    
    Bow of Sinew Avg Dmg = 1.45x + 0.70s + 13.775 
    	(1.45x + 19.375 if you only have +8 seeker found on the bow) 
    Lit 2 GS Bow Avg Dmg = 1.15x + 0.30s + 35.08 
    
    1.8
    1.45x + 19.375 > 1.15x + 36.88
    0.3x > 17.505
    59
    I suck at math, so cant verify, if you took that into consideration, but Sinew has x4 crit multiplier on 19 - 20 and x3 on 17 - 18 (assuming imp. crit). That either makes it even less capable of reaching the breaking point to over DPS Ardency, or little more capable. If you took that into consideration, then you have my utter respect!

  11. #51
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Ok, I'm not one of those DDO stat guys, but looking at the Silver Bow (which I think I have by the way) and a Sun's Fury bow that I got at loot gen, I don't get the love for the Silver Bow, or how it is better than random loot. I think the random loot definition needs qualification.
    It isn't that difficult to understand and I'm not even a "stat guy" as you put it. The problem you are having is that you're taking the approach almost everyone takes when they compare weapons. You are looking at the effects on the weapon without looking at the weapon itself and the critical threat range it has. Further you aren't willing to take into consideration any additional effects that help boost the Silver Longbow such as Seeker. So naturally you won't understand.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 07-25-2013 at 07:16 PM.
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  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRobai View Post
    Ranged alacrity on bow?
    No, on a thrower, as clearly stated.

    I usually craft it on hat (unless you can't make flexible shard, Trinket is not an option, I always put Greater Bold trinket there on non casters).
    Better put on weapons only the dps bonus that can't be put on elsewhere.
    Well, if you want to swap two items when you pull out a thrower on a non-range melee, go for it. That's way too much effort for very little gain, IMO, especially since no other suffix will hurt everything you would actually pull out a thrower for. (Constructs, which aren't hurt by bleed, and the occasional fleshie mob out of reach who must be killed to continue, like in closing the rift.)

  13. #53
    Community Member RyonsAlt's Avatar
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    When the Silver Bow first came out, it was difficult just to find flaming weapons and such. Good gear then is almost laughable to a lot of people now. It's really good bow for new players and low level archer types until they find something more suited to their needs.

    I'm not sure why we need to have a huge debate on this ... again ...

  14. #54
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyonsAlt View Post
    I'm not sure why we need to have a huge debate on this ... again ...
    Well, some people weren't here for the old debates. And have you tried searching the forums since they change a few months ago?

    It's been enlightening to me, I am beginning to understand.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    Sure, I have one. I even bothered to fill the slot with something useful. I usually find it useful for it's level, and I use it till either level 10 when I get the Bow of the Elements(Air), or until I grab my GS.
    People actually use the bow of elements air over the silverbow?

    *runs off to the ddo wiki to check if there has been any changes*


    eh? I dont see whats so great about it? its +5 1d8 with shocking burst and a red slot?
    Last edited by NaturalHazard; 07-25-2013 at 10:09 PM.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    Sure, it's by far better than a typical lootgen bow.
    (I'm not sure about the really amazing lootgen items I've seen though. Some of those effects are just pure awesome.)

    But I'm seeing a lot of people saying it's better than most named bows as well.
    Like GreenSteel, Alchemical, House C Challenge Bow, Bow of Sinew...

    I just don't see [1d10] base damage and 19/20x3 crit range making the bow better than any of the above bows.
    Used to be best bow until you could wield geensteel, if using the right arrows, but that has changed a lot. Personally I like bows of lacerating or specific purpose bows like disruption, smiting, etc now. Those used to be hard to find, but are a dime a dozen now. But if you are a manyshotter still hard to beat a Lit 2 until you can get the epic challenges bow or pinion at late levels. Unwavering Ardency and Silver Slinger Bows are nice too. Silver bow imho is just meh now.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by viktorserak View Post
    I suppose you are taking in consideration the seeker for sinew (which has +8 by default) and no seeker for Ardency (which has none by default). In that case, since we are talking about how to do top DPS with bows on their respectable levels, its vital to take in consideration the fact, that players that actually cares about their DPS, will use proper gear to add to it. Ardency crit with +6 seeker (less then Sinew +8) basically favors Ardency over Sinew considerably. Also, even with Imp crit, only 1/5 of your attacks will be critical (suppose no fortification) - on noncrit, Ardency is superior to Sinew by far (base dmg 2d12 vs 1d8).
    I was responding to Fedora1 who mentioned he did not have those items, but you are absolutely right that any seeker items boost Ardency past Sinew. Of course Fedora is far more likely to obtain a Sinew than Ardency as it is far, far easier to obtain.

  18. #58
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    People actually use the bow of elements air over the silverbow?

    *runs off to the ddo wiki to check if there has been any changes*


    eh? I dont see whats so great about it? its +5 1d8 with shocking burst and a red slot?
    Well depending on the build(My last 3 AA lives in particular) I did not have that high of a str score until epic levels. Especially on my undergeared monkcher. Making the bonus effects a better option for my toons(at the time) than that of the Silver Bow, since I did not have the str of seeker bonus to take advantage of an expanded crit range. I also sis not have a Thornlord my last TR. I'l likely be using it now instead.


    Quote Originally Posted by RyonsAlt View Post
    I'm not sure why we need to have a huge debate on this ... again ...
    Because despite my trying I could not get these forums to produce the threads about this subject(Which I remember seeing, but not reading at the time). And simply because it's a subject that is always changing with updates, and new weapons being added. How do the new updated versions of these bows compare? Where do new bow fit into the DPS calculations. Sure if I could have found the threads I could have necro'd one and possibly gotten my questions asked there. However it's more likely I would have gotten a number of "thread necro" responses and I still would have had to create a new thread.
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
    Araphell - Arasin - Arathaes - Arawyn - Aravein
    Guild: Fors Fortis;Guild of Won, & VENOM @ Argo
    "And we learn, as we age; We've learned nothing! And my body still aches."

  19. #59
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    Well depending on the build(My last 3 AA lives in particular) I did not have that high of a str score until epic levels. Especially on my undergeared monkcher. Making the bonus effects a better option for my toons(at the time) than that of the Silver Bow, since I did not have the str of seeker bonus to take advantage of an expanded crit range. I also sis not have a Thornlord my last TR. I'l likely be using it now instead.




    .
    Im sorry im a bit confused are you talking about the epic bow of elements air and thornlord or the heroic level weapons? Because the heroic level items don't stack up to the silverbow at all they are terrible.

    Silverbow +3 holy 2d6 vs evil, 1d10 base and the killer 19-20 threat range x 3

    Bow of elements air +5 shocking burst 1d6 electric damage, 2d10 on a crit 1.5 1d8 base damage and 20 threat with a *3 multiplier

    Thornlord +4 1.5 (1d8 +2) and basically same threat range and multplier as any longbow heck the bow of elements air is better.

    I see what changes they made they upped the base damage of the last two bows, 1.5 the base damage, but even if you have a low str mod I still think a 17-20 threat range beats a 19-20 threat range with improved crit even if the weapon that has the lower threat range gives 1-4 more base damage. Dont forget otherthings like racial enhancements, favoured enemy,blood stone and other things that also get multiplied by crits.

    I can understand people questioning those saying that the silver bow is better than some of the better epic bows or even greensteel but to me those two named bows are just terrible, I would rather have a min 10 para longbow with icyburst on it.

    oh and low level banishers and smiters with iceyburst of course.

  20. #60
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Im sorry im a bit confused are you talking about the epic bow of elements air and thornlord or the heroic level weapons? Because the heroic level items don't stack up to the silverbow at all they are terrible.

    Silverbow +3 holy 2d6 vs evil, 1d10 base and the killer 19-20 threat range x 3

    Bow of elements air +5 shocking burst 1d6 electric damage, 2d10 on a crit 1.5 1d8 base damage and 20 threat with a *3 multiplier

    Thornlord +4 1.5 (1d8 +2) and basically same threat range and multplier as any longbow heck the bow of elements air is better.

    I see what changes they made they upped the base damage of the last two bows, 1.5 the base damage, but even if you have a low str mod I still think a 17-20 threat range beats a 19-20 threat range with improved crit even if the weapon that has the lower threat range gives 1-4 more base damage. Dont forget otherthings like racial enhancements, favoured enemy,blood stone and other things that also get multiplied by crits.

    I can understand people questioning those saying that the silver bow is better than some of the better epic bows or even greensteel but to me those two named bows are just terrible, I would rather have a min 10 para longbow with icyburst on it.

    oh and low level banishers and smiters with iceyburst of course.
    I'm speaking about the heroic versions.

    For me, it has a lot to do with my gear set up while leveling. While leveling I build for survivability first and foremost. It makes soloing elite streaks to cap easier, when instead of having teh uber DPS, you are basically unkillable with okay DPS. This of course changes on the situation and I make gear swaps when more DPS is needed. I use them all up until I get my GS. At which point nothing is better than my collection of LitII/Triple Fire/Triple Ice/Triple Posi/Triple Earth.

    And I have a slew of really tasty lootgen weapons as well, my favorite being a ML12 +3 Paralyzing longbow of Pure Good(colorless slot, force ritual, festivult icy)

    I just like a lot of versatility and option in my play.
    To each their own I suppose.
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
    Araphell - Arasin - Arathaes - Arawyn - Aravein
    Guild: Fors Fortis;Guild of Won, & VENOM @ Argo
    "And we learn, as we age; We've learned nothing! And my body still aches."

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