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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    EDIT : Sup heartseeker on 19-20 is 58 in average, not 45, looks like you counted 10 instead 13d8
    yeah, math is hard. I've copied it from some heartseeker falchion, which is x2 (i.e. 13d6), but bow is x3 (13d8). Fixed

  2. #22
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    edit: replying twice like a boss
    Last edited by cru121; 07-25-2013 at 05:50 AM.

  3. #23
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    I'm at work and can't access the spreadsheets posted for the damage values. Can someone give a realistic value for say a heroic L12 1st life toon and the silver bow? Not gonna have seeker +10, not gonna have 40str, not gonna have dealy weapons, etc.

    My ranger L12 is using the elemental bow of ice and it seems pretty effective. Holy doesn't work against several mobs like animals, vermin, etc. I realize everyone is concentrating on the crits and not the effects, but still. Thanks.

  4. #24
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    I'm at work and can't access the spreadsheets posted for the damage values. Can someone give a realistic value for say a heroic L12 1st life toon and the silver bow? Not gonna have seeker +10, not gonna have 40str, not gonna have dealy weapons, etc.

    My ranger L12 is using the elemental bow of ice and it seems pretty effective. Holy doesn't work against several mobs like animals, vermin, etc. I realize everyone is concentrating on the crits and not the effects, but still. Thanks.
    This was kind of my thought from the beginning.
    I'm seeing vets tell newer players, or players new to archery in DDO that the Silver Bow is such an amazing bow. (Which I'm not denying.)

    But that line of thought, at least to me, is extremely misleading. What I mean is that any average player isn't going to have access to the buffs and gear needed to make the Silver Bow all that more amazing than the Bow of the Elements(Air/Ice), or even a large number of lootgen bows. Of course I would still tell the person to get one. It's a very versatile bow, with easy DR breaking capabilities, and a red slot. But saying things like "It's one of the highest DPS bow in the game" (actual quote from a vet in a pug, and is part of the reason I started this thread) is very shortsighted and gives newer players the wrong impression I think.

    These kind of statements to me imply that the "Highest DPS" weapons are the only ones that matter, and don't seem to take into account the circumstances that make these weapons so great; I feel that they also undercut the value of CC weapons(Paralyzers and the like).

    I suppose I just want people to put a little more thought into the types of things that they say when throwing out information. Especially to ignorant players.
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
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  5. #25
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    Since this thread partially evolved beyond the OP question and ppl are starting to talk about other bows as well, I wanted to ask one thing:

    No one mentioned Unvawering Ardency (Bow from Abbot). I personally value that bow over GS and Sinew. The reason, that this bow wasnt mentioned is what? Is it simply because its so rare, or because its not considered to be that good? Gonna run rager soon and I would like to know...

  6. #26
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Math never solves problems.
    Last edited by Encair; 07-25-2013 at 08:16 AM.
    Shahang Nezhat Bellezza Wipekin Farida of Ghallanda

  7. #27
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Still curious about heroics 1st life toon using Silver Bow vs others.
    Last edited by Fedora1; 07-25-2013 at 08:26 AM. Reason: Removed quote.

  8. #28
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by viktorserak View Post
    Since this thread partially evolved beyond the OP question and ppl are starting to talk about other bows as well, I wanted to ask one thing:

    No one mentioned Unvawering Ardency (Bow from Abbot). I personally value that bow over GS and Sinew. The reason, that this bow wasnt mentioned is what? Is it simply because its so rare, or because its not considered to be that good? Gonna run rager soon and I would like to know...
    Short answer, I don't have the bow yet so I didn't think about it at all. Lol

    Long Answer, your average player(Who is my main concern with this thread tbh, I just may not have made it very clear in the OP) is very, very unlikely to have Unwavering Ardency, especially on a non TR toon. This is even more so true now than in the past because of the lack of not only Abbot Pugs, but successful Abbot Pugs.

    While DPS comparisons are wonderful, and I greatly appreciate the effort people put into them, they mean very little to newer, and or average players. The fact that a Silver Bow does more DPS the more outside damage sources you have doesn't mean much to anyone who isn't a vet trying to squeeze every last possible point of damage out of their set up. This holds true for any weapon type.

    The fact the Ethornlord for the longest time was the best DPS bow in the entire game didn't really mean a damn thing because they were/are so hard to get, and are so rare that I feel you can't really factor them into any DPS comparison. (this may have come out wrong..)
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
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  9. #29
    Community Member apep1412's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    I'm at work and can't access the spreadsheets posted for the damage values. Can someone give a realistic value for say a heroic L12 1st life toon and the silver bow? Not gonna have seeker +10, not gonna have 40str, not gonna have dealy weapons, etc.

    My ranger L12 is using the elemental bow of ice and it seems pretty effective. Holy doesn't work against several mobs like animals, vermin, etc. I realize everyone is concentrating on the crits and not the effects, but still. Thanks.
    Assuming Point Blank Shot, IC:Ranged, +3 or lower arrows with no burst effect, and 0 seeker for all calculations...

    Assuming both Holy and Icy Burst do full damage, 18.
    Assuming only Icy Burst does full damage, 51.
    Assuming only Holy does full damage, 0.

  10. #30
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Still curious about heroics 1st life toon using Silver Bow vs others.
    The short Answer;

    Silver Longbow is easy to get, and a powerhouse for the mid levels, literally like a Carnifix for a THF. It's just a great starer bow, that really shines.

    Sure, other bows outshine it later as time goes on, but, a good chunk of the "other" bows are either like winning a Lottery (Loot gen with the perfect abilities) or you may as well open a coffee shop for how much grinding you are about to do to get one (Raid/other rare named bows)

    The truth is, if you have a top notch bow like Abbot, or GS, etc, swapping out is what you do, but if you don't already know that, or have those items and in reality, by the time you get those items you should already know your shizzle, so telling a new player to take care of their Silver Longbow and stick with it, is sold sound advice, until something really super comes along at least.

    If they are serious about being an Archer, they will look up what other bows are out there and start to see what is better overall, that is part of the learning process of the game, till that time however, the Silver longbow will serve them well.

  11. #31
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    The better crit range makes it a good bow even all the way up to 20, for a character with decent str, bow str feat, and or other feats to back up ranged bow damage. With higher str, crit chance and crit multiplier are the things that ramp up damage the most in the heroic game.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  12. #32
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    Default I have an old one, no augment slots

    I just started a new ranger, and I just made lvl 6, so now I can use it.
    I'll see what kinda damage it does.

  13. #33
    Community Member Robai's Avatar
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    Silver Longbow for epics?
    LOL !

    It's the best lvl 8 bow for sure, but at epics it's meh, most ML21+ trash bows will be better, not to mention named bows.

    EDIT:
    For example these ML14 bows beats Silver Longbow (by far):
    For everything (except some bosses, but the dmg is so high that even for bosses it will do):
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Unwavering_Ardency
    For bosses (and better for everything too):
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Bow_of_Sinew

    Tier3 GS bow (like Lit2) is ML12 and also better than Silver Longbow (for everything, including bosses).

    But, if you take into account the binding then the winner is Bow of Sinew, because it's BtA.

    Another bow worth mentioning is
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Bow_of_the_Silver_Flame
    It's ML 16, boss beater, undead beater (can crit undead, skelies take full dmg), and it's BtA too. Overall, this bow is better than Silver Longbow (just because it's BtA, similar dmg, and for undead it wins by far, and you don't need to load silver arrows to kick Harry's butt).
    Last edited by TheRobai; 07-25-2013 at 11:13 AM. Reason: added url

  14. #34
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    Sure, it's by far better than a typical lootgen bow.
    (I'm not sure about the really amazing lootgen items I've seen though. Some of those effects are just pure awesome.)

    But I'm seeing a lot of people saying it's better than most named bows as well.
    Like GreenSteel, Alchemical, House C Challenge Bow, Bow of Sinew...

    I just don't see [1d10] base damage and 19/20x3 crit range making the bow better than any of the above bows.
    They are wrong... but it is a great bow... depending on what you are fighting.

    A long time ago, someone posted a thread and went through the trouble of comparing bow DPS. The Silver Bow did very well, even when compared to very rare and powerful bows.

    But is was not he best.. and is not that great if you are not fighting Evil monsters.


    However, it is only min lvl 6 and is easier to get than many better bows.


    Also... you are right... the game has changed... we now have a LOT more awesome effects on random loot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  15. #35
    Community Member Ellihor's Avatar
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    Could someone do the math for the breaking point comparing unwavering ardency and the bow of sinew with a +5 holy burst of bleed cannithcrafted and with the ee roadwatch?

  16. #36
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    Silver Bow>Unwavering Ardency>EThornlord>Pinion.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowwer View Post
    Silver Bow>Unwavering Ardency>EThornlord>Pinion.
    True, except it's exactly the opposite

  18. #38
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    I'm at work and can't access the spreadsheets posted for the damage values. Can someone give a realistic value for say a heroic L12 1st life toon and the silver bow? Not gonna have seeker +10, not gonna have 40str, not gonna have dealy weapons, etc.

    My ranger L12 is using the elemental bow of ice and it seems pretty effective. Holy doesn't work against several mobs like animals, vermin, etc. I realize everyone is concentrating on the crits and not the effects, but still. Thanks.

    The Silver Longbow will crit twice as often as the Bow of Elements (Ice), but generally for much less. With no strength or seeker modifiers, against non-evil opponents the Silver will crit for around 16-43 vs the Ice which will crit for around 23-84. Against evil stuff the Silver will crit for about 18-55.


    Bow of Elements (Ice) is a really nice L12 bow and with a L12 red augment it has can do almost as much on a crit as the Bow of Sinew, but Sinew will crit twice as often and generally for more (about 56 - 84).

  19. #39
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellihor View Post
    Could someone do the math for the breaking point comparing unwavering ardency and the bow of sinew with a +5 holy burst of bleed cannithcrafted and with the ee roadwatch?
    Without seeker items or other modifiers, Ardency can crit for 17-101 against non-flame resistant opponents vs Sinew which can crit for 56-84.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Without seeker items or other modifiers, Ardency can crit for 17-101 against non-flame resistant opponents vs Sinew which can crit for 56-84.
    Why would you calc a weapon's damage without seeker or damage mod?

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