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  1. #1
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Default Silver Bow. What's the deal?

    Can someone please explain to me what is so amazingly great about the Silver Bow? I've now had 5 or 6 people on live tell me, or others in my parties that it's the best bow you can get before epic levels, and that it's actually better DPS than say the EE RoadWatch Bow; I simply can't see it at all.

    Sure, I have one. I even bothered to fill the slot with something useful. I usually find it useful for it's level, and I use it till either level 10 when I get the Bow of the Elements(Air), or until I grab my GS. It's not bad at those levels. But after that? I've had people swear by it even into the higher teen levels, But I just don't see how that would work more than, oh say any other notable named bow after level 12(Except maybe the Tortured Livewood bow)..

    Am I wrong? Am I missing something crucial? Or do I just have enough named bows that by comparison it looks pretty useless after mid levels?
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
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  2. #2
    Community Member dredre9987's Avatar
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    Take a good look at the damage die and the crit range.

    "This bow has increased base weapon damage [1d10] and double critical threat range to 19-20/x3, when compared to a typical longbow."
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    Oh and honestly, you are all carrying portal beaters on your casters? What on earth are you using it on often enough to clog up your bag with it?
    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Portals.

  3. #3
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dredre9987 View Post
    Take a good look at the damage die and the crit range.

    "This bow has increased base weapon damage [1d10] and double critical threat range to 19-20/x3, when compared to a typical longbow."
    Sure, it's by far better than a typical lootgen bow.
    (I'm not sure about the really amazing lootgen items I've seen though. Some of those effects are just pure awesome.)

    But I'm seeing a lot of people saying it's better than most named bows as well.
    Like GreenSteel, Alchemical, House C Challenge Bow, Bow of Sinew...

    I just don't see [1d10] base damage and 19/20x3 crit range making the bow better than any of the above bows.
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
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  4. #4
    Community Member dredre9987's Avatar
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    Neither do I but the amount of misinformation that goes on in this game is staggering. If you have GS bows waiting at 12 those are your winners.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    Oh and honestly, you are all carrying portal beaters on your casters? What on earth are you using it on often enough to clog up your bag with it?
    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Portals.

  5. #5
    Community Member Buddha5440's Avatar
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    I know what you mean. I've never been impressed with it myself. The biggest benefits I see are that it has an expanded crit range without being keen so it stacks with improved crit and it is one step higher in base damage (1d10 vs 1d8). However, if you are going with improved crit:ranged, you are likely a ranged character and there are much better crafted or loot-gen bows available. For example, on my AA's I either find, craft, or have crafted a +x holy of bleed/pure good and +x shocking burst of bleed/pure good.

    For non-ranged characters though it's a decent bow if you don't want to spend the time looking for or crafting a better one and seems to have a pretty decent drop rate even on normal/hard.
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  6. #6
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dredre9987 View Post
    Neither do I but the amount of misinformation that goes on in this game is staggering. If you have GS bows waiting at 12 those are your winners.
    That's what I thought. It just bothers me when I see people("Vets" at that...) giving other people advice, telling the to rush off and grab this level 8 bow to use in Epic levels until they get something better. And these same people get really upset when I try to set the straight about this. But when you hear so many people saying the same thing you start to think "Is it really them that's wrong? Am I missing something?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha5440 View Post
    I know what you mean. I've never been impressed with it myself. The biggest benefits I see are that it has an expanded crit range without being keen so it stacks with improved crit and it is one step higher in base damage (1d10 vs 1d8).

    For non-ranged characters though it's a decent bow if you don't want to spend the time looking for or crafting a better one and seems to have a pretty decent drop rate even on normal/hard.
    I guess you have a point there. I've always done the Petrifying War Bow/WindHowler Bracers combo on my non ranged toons when I want to range on them. At least until I get to level 20, and then I've got a House C challenge bow (tier 1) laying in my shared banks that I can pass around.
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
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  7. #7
    Community Member Kawai's Avatar
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    it's referred to by some as a sort of GreatBow thats missing from game, stats wise.
    used to b ml: 6

    There is also Greatbow of the Scrag.

    Silver/Scrag used now primarily until 12 & Greensteel

    *shrug

    is what it is,

    edit: PS:
    theres also some others worth having at lowbee, as mentioned prior with crafting.
    Paralyzers @ 10, along with WoPs (though kind of nerfed now, but still viable)
    (Wounding of Puncturing) and the Poison whatchacallit from Deleras is nice too since it was updated.

    Throw on WinterFest to anything nice u like. (except the named, of course.)
    Last edited by Kawai; 07-25-2013 at 01:27 AM.

  8. #8
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    With high enough base damage modifier, weapon with superior critical profile wins everytime and even other effects on higher level items might not make up for that.
    Where is that point where Silver Bow surpasses EE Roadwatch, I don't know , + 50, + 70 base damage ?
    If that's possible to reach that point on particular toon, that's another question.
    Ghallanda

  9. #9
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    The silver bow is basically the best leveling bow. Well aside from your GS's. So until lv 12 (or 13 I forget what gs weapons are) it is THE bow.

    After that then id say GS. Of course in actuality you find yourself a sweet ml 10 paralyzing longbow and then icy burst it and you have your longbow until lv 16.


    All of which doesn't matter because unless manyshots up that bow sucks. Maybe if theirs 5 guys all standing single file and the arrow doesn't do a 30 degree wind veer, but the dude with the blades is just gonna ko em all in moments. Or cause them all to disarray. Even a monkcher kinda sucks with the bow until they get around 20 cause you need to stack the wisdom for the extra arrows.

    But as far as manyshot times go, for dps it's the silver, then the GS, then it's a mix of bows at 20 the easiest being the elemental longbow to get, as well as your boss beater bows burst of greater bane. (especially with guild slot, sadly turbine screwed you new guys) Then an alchy bow followed by the reason you see most people running citw, THE bow.

    Unless shadow has some kind of kickass meth lightspeed (normal melee swing speed) bow in there I don't know of.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Kawai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    With high enough base damage modifier, weapon with superior critical profile wins everytime and even other effects on higher level items might not make up for that.
    Where is that point where Silver Bow surpasses EE Roadwatch, I don't know , + 50, + 70 base damage ?
    If that's possible to reach that point on particular toon, that's another question.
    wouldn't know why anyone would advise it (Sivler LB) over Roadwatch, even if NOT Lawful xD
    so, u can wipe that advise, and have coke and smileys.

    best advise: read the weapon descrips, dmg, crits all that... make up your own mind.
    never listen to others exclusively.

  11. #11
    Community Member apep1412's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    Where is that point where Silver Bow surpasses EE Roadwatch, I don't know , + 50, + 70 base damage ?
    About 55 damage from sources other than the bow/arrows if you don't have overwhelming critical, or similar from LD or Earth 3; are using +5 arrows; and have slotted 1d10 elemental damage into the Silver Longbow.

    Deadly weapons, point blank shot, seeker, etc. favor the Silver Longbow.
    Effects that increase crit multiplier on a fixed range or increase the crit range by a fixed amount favor the Roadwatch Bow.
    External effects that don't affect base damage or crit profile will not have an effect on the break even point.
    Last edited by apep1412; 07-25-2013 at 02:30 AM.

  12. #12
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    Or you can do the math to find out which is better.
    I've entered some data to my weapon damage comparison tool
    Assuming hitting on a 2, seeker 10, Improved Critical, zero fortification target, lvl24 red augment in holy bow, 40 bonus damage.
    You can download the sheet and play with the values. (or change them online if you want)
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...5QzlDTXc#gid=1

    Edit: I've added a ranged section:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...5QzlDTXc#gid=3
    Last edited by cru121; 07-25-2013 at 02:50 AM.

  13. #13
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    Am I wrong? Am I missing something crucial? Or do I just have enough named bows that by comparison it looks pretty useless after mid levels?
    Yes, you are missing something crucial. Expanded crit range is incredibly important in DDO due to the large damage that many characters can dish out per hit. Essentially, there is a break even point for every weapon comparison with different crit ranges versus extra damage per hit effects which favors the higher crit range weapons as you increase your damage per hit (applied to crits).

    Basic rule of thumb, if your toon does poor damage then the extra damage per hit proc weapons are probably your best bet, if you do impressive damage per hit you probably want to do the math to see if you are over that break even point.

    Oh and silver longbow is an incredible weapon. The math on it is impressive for a lot of builds against the majority of other bows. Only GS bows and other crit range expanded bows really are competitive for any serious bow using build.
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  14. #14
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    People say this for the same reason that they say khopesh are better than scimitars. Somebody has done the math. I've read the threads, you can probably still find them. The last detailed one that i saw was comparing the silver bow against the bow of sinew. This was the old silver longbow, and it stayed ahead of the bow of sinew until the base number was pretty high.

    It entirely depends on how high your base damage is. If you are one of those people who can get your strength numbers consistently in the stratosphere, it works out to doing more extra damage from the extra crits than what you would get from other modifiers. Then there are intangible factors, like what is it worth to paralyze things? What is crippling worth?

    The elemental longbow from challenges has improved destruction on it. If i read the new to hit formula correctly, debuffing ac is twice as effective as raising your to hit. So it could probably raise your actual hitting percentage by 10-15%. My ranger, who is a tempest currently, grazes consistently on 5's and 6's (with a bow). If you could change that to 3's and 4's, how much would that improve your dps? Plus it helps everybody in the group in the same way.

  15. #15
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    Yes, you are missing something crucial. Expanded crit range is incredibly important in DDO due to the large damage that many characters can dish out per hit. Essentially, there is a break even point for every weapon comparison with different crit ranges versus extra damage per hit effects which favors the higher crit range weapons as you increase your damage per hit (applied to crits).

    Basic rule of thumb, if your toon does poor damage then the extra damage per hit proc weapons are probably your best bet, if you do impressive damage per hit you probably want to do the math to see if you are over that break even point.

    Oh and silver longbow is an incredible weapon. The math on it is impressive for a lot of builds against the majority of other bows. Only GS bows and other crit range expanded bows really are competitive for any serious bow using build.
    I understand all of this, but at the same time looking at the numbers my understanding is that the Silver Bow still is only good at best over other bows until you hit level 14 at best. Then it's outclassed by the Bow of Sinew.

    And I may be wrong here, most likely am, but from personal experience I don't think most average ranged toons are hitting the break even point in heroic levels. I'm not sure if there are enough outside sources to boost your damage up high enough in the heroic levels. (that most people have access to)

    **EDIT:
    Made this comment before I looked at cru's spreadsheet. I guess I was wrong. The Silver Bow is in fact better DPS than the Bow of Sinew. Interesting, since it's not what I expected. Ty for doing the work for me. lol
    Last edited by TheLegendOfAra; 07-25-2013 at 04:11 AM.
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
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  16. #16
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apep1412 View Post
    About 55 damage from sources other than the bow/arrows if you don't have overwhelming critical, or similar from LD or Earth 3; are using +5 arrows; and have slotted 1d10 elemental damage into the Silver Longbow.

    Deadly weapons, point blank shot, seeker, etc. favor the Silver Longbow.
    Effects that increase crit multiplier on a fixed range or increase the crit range by a fixed amount favor the Roadwatch Bow.
    External effects that don't affect base damage or crit profile will not have an effect on the break even point.
    55 damage modifier is a pretty high number. Remember, this is only talking about the number that will be multiplied by crits.

    assuming seeker 10, pbs 5, deadly weapons 5, claw set 4, bard 10? ranger past lives 6, monk past lives 3, ship buff 2. Did i miss anything? That all adds up to 45. So a 30 strength to get to 55. Easy for an epic toon.

    If you don't have all that stuff available, it gets tougher, and you would have to make up all the difference with strength. Just remove the bard and the arti, and you need to have a 60 strength. I consider that to be pretty high for the average archer, epic or not.

  17. #17
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    wasn't there a post here few months back with people hitting 100 (bonus?) damage with bows? end game obviously

  18. #18
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apep1412 View Post
    About 55 damage
    Cheers, as suspected, was more like rhetorical question but thanks for the number.
    As Cru proves, with higher seeker, crit multipliers and +W effects, that goes even lower.
    EDIT : Sup heartseeker on 19-20 is 58 in average, not 45, looks like you counted 10 instead 13d8
    Always good to see ranged experts in one thread, the amount of misinformation is staggering indeed.
    Last edited by Encair; 07-25-2013 at 04:19 AM.
    Ghallanda

  19. #19
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    Cheers, as suspected, was more like rhetorical question but thanks for the number.
    As Cru proves, with higher seeker, crit multipliers and +W effects, that goes even lower.

    Always good to see ranged experts in one thread, the amount of misinformation is staggering indeed.
    And lower still with human damage boost > pin > adrenaline > otto's whistler + sense weakness.

  20. #20
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    Can someone please explain to me what is so amazingly great about the Silver Bow? I've now had 5 or 6 people on live tell me, or others in my parties that it's the best bow you can get before epic levels, and that it's actually better DPS than say the EE RoadWatch Bow; I simply can't see it at all.

    Sure, I have one. I even bothered to fill the slot with something useful. I usually find it useful for it's level, and I use it till either level 10 when I get the Bow of the Elements(Air), or until I grab my GS. It's not bad at those levels. But after that? I've had people swear by it even into the higher teen levels, But I just don't see how that would work more than, oh say any other notable named bow after level 12(Except maybe the Tortured Livewood bow)..

    Am I wrong? Am I missing something crucial? Or do I just have enough named bows that by comparison it looks pretty useless after mid levels?
    The Silver Bow is pretty decent for the end of harbor levels, and up to about level 14 or so imo. It's not the best bow, and pretty lackluster compared to greensteel, challenge gear, or good random lootgen pulls. Suffice to say I wouldn't use it in epic levels on any ranged toon.

    I love that bow for tackling things that people rarely run, like DQ at level. Manyshot with some House D cold iron arrows will rock her world. But even on my Pally, who is currently tr'ing and has manyshot, I use other bows. The one I can't recall the name of from the madness chain part 1 with seeker +8/aligned comes to mind in dr breaking situations.
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