Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 74
  1. #1
    Community Member knightgf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,080

    Default Why I believe the dev's want to nerf our classes...

    Here are a few reasons why I believe the developers intend to nerf everyone's classes in the upcoming enhancement pass:

    - To reduce lag. Seriously, I know this sounds like a dumb one, but unfortunately, that is the case. More damage = more server load. In fact, I recall that when Two-Weapon fighting was nerfed slightly, it was to reduce server lag. This is a poor excuse to nerf us, really. It's like saying, "Yeah you can take a shower but you have to turn it off and on again every minute or else the showerhead clogs up." It's a poor workaround for a much bigger issue.

    - To reduce power creep. Lets face it, there's a lot of it at low levels. It makes low and most mid-level content trivial, especially in groups.

    - To add more challenge in normal and hard settings. People want a challenge at these settings, and Turbine is giving it to them - in the form of a nerf.

    - To undo a mistake. This happens all too often. They give us power we believe to be good, and then they take it back because they feel it is 'overpowered'.

    Yes, I realize that the enhancement pass isn't final, but it certainly has a strong indication of nerfing our characters. And I know there are more reasons than these, these are all that I can think off.

    Your thoughts or reasons?
    Here's a riddle for you: What do you call people who play the game for only a day and apparently know everything?

  2. #2
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    402

    Default

    Many builds/classes are getting a HUGE power increase.

    For pure damage, many builds are just crazy damage.

    Straight up 30% more damage on stunned mobs while not epic?

  3. #3
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    10,019

    Default

    you forgot to say "/tinfoil hat on".

    I don't think you are too far off though. I would think they do it for better balance, but finding the middle seems to always be a problem.

  4. #4
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,635

    Default

    I'm sorry to hear they are nerfing your characters. They aren't nerfing mine.

  5. #5
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    2,714

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    Here are a few reasons why I believe the developers intend to nerf everyone's classes in the upcoming enhancement pass:

    - To reduce lag. Seriously, I know this sounds like a dumb one, but unfortunately, that is the case. More damage = more server load. In fact, I recall that when Two-Weapon fighting was nerfed slightly, it was to reduce server lag. This is a poor excuse to nerf us, really. It's like saying, "Yeah you can take a shower but you have to turn it off and on again every minute or else the showerhead clogs up." It's a poor workaround for a much bigger issue.
    In general this is incorrect. Lowering the amount of damage does not reduce lag. What does count is the number of dice rolls. The attack speed of TWF was lowered to decrease the number of dice rolls. This lowers the strain on the server somewhat, although I can't imagine it reduces lag a lot.

  6. #6
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,424

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    I'm sorry to hear they are nerfing your characters. They aren't nerfing mine.
    Well, out of 12 "toons" only 1 comes out better, 4 come out with a few moderate lacerations (nothing stitches and a pair of crutches wont help. They will be "disfigured" but they will make it through, even if not recognizable), and the rest will need to be placed on life support until TR.

    Really not pleased with the enhancement pass but as another poster (different thread) said (paraphrased), We will still kill monsters to gain XP after the pass. I just wish there was a Taken illusion so I can look the part my "toons" will feel like.

  7. #7
    Uber Uber Completionist
    2014 DDO Player Council
    Deadlock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Scotland - where the dwarf accents come from
    Posts
    3,508

    Default

    None of the above.

    Nobody in their right mind puts the amount of hours into this as they have done with the aim being to nerf every class.

  8. #8
    Community Member darthhento's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    854

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Nobody in their right mind puts the amount of hours into this as they have done with the aim being to nerf every class.
    Go take a look at Sorcs.
    =$==$==$==$==$==$==$==ORIEN==$==$==$==$==$==$==$=
    Darthwolf **(?_?) Zendarth m(?_?m) Darthnoheals \(?_?)
    =$==$==$==$==$==$==House Do'Urden==$==$==$==$==$==$=

  9. #9
    Uber Uber Completionist
    2014 DDO Player Council
    Deadlock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Scotland - where the dwarf accents come from
    Posts
    3,508

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by darthhento View Post
    Go take a look at Sorcs.
    Sorcs are every class now?

    Have you been on the threads discussing the increase in base critical multiplier? You'll see that it's nowhere near as bad as the early doommongers feared, there was a huge amount of early misinformation on this.

  10. #10
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    5,345

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Sorcs are every class now?

    Have you been on the threads discussing the increase in base critical multiplier? You'll see that it's nowhere near as bad as the early doommongers feared, there was a huge amount of early misinformation on this.
    Not horrid does not equal good.

    There are many problems with the ep, sorcs, spell crits in general, spwr skills, builds that can't be replicated, lack of devotion for classes that have cures but aren't caster specced (druid, ranger, kotc), new combinations that are overpowered and will give some people on the forums aneurysms as they scream for them to be nerfed, loss of hp, prc's not added, racial prc's not added, prc's not filled out.

    Other than every single character doesn't have to reroll what has been done well again?

  11. #11
    Community Member darthhento's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    854

    Default

    Less damage on crits is a nerf. Less spellpower then a wizard is a nerf. Opposing elements getting more negatives than live is a nerf. No wand n scroll mastery is a nerf.

    Your move.
    =$==$==$==$==$==$==$==ORIEN==$==$==$==$==$==$==$=
    Darthwolf **(?_?) Zendarth m(?_?m) Darthnoheals \(?_?)
    =$==$==$==$==$==$==House Do'Urden==$==$==$==$==$==$=

  12. #12
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    4,572

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Sorcs are every class now?
    Yes...

    ...And Shiradi Sorcs are dps kings, and...



    Damn, I almost typed that with a straight face...

    Seriously though, many people are just determined that the pass will suck, and they'll adhere to that until they post or copy the latest new power builds. I imagine many people are going to sit on their +20s until the new FotM is posted, then make a mad rush pile on the bandwagon. Most of the build innovators I know are drooling for this to go live, because it offers a cure for one of DDO's (biggest?) fun blocking issues: stagnation.

    Edit:
    I'm not saying it's all issue-free sunshine & rainbows. Lord knows it has it's problems. But that said, there are up sides, and chief among them are the new avenues to explore.
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 07-25-2013 at 05:47 AM.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  13. #13
    Uber Uber Completionist
    2014 DDO Player Council
    Deadlock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Scotland - where the dwarf accents come from
    Posts
    3,508

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by darthhento View Post
    Less damage on crits is a nerf. Less spellpower then a wizard is a nerf. Opposing elements getting more negatives than live is a nerf. No wand n scroll mastery is a nerf.

    Your move.
    I don't need a move. You're just recycling old posts where this has all been answered, the answers disagreed with, the disagreement countered, the counter refuted ....

    Wizards get more USP while sorcs get more spell power in their primary element when you add it all up. Spellcraft isn't CHA based but is still a class skill. And besides, proxy nerfing by someone else getting something you don't isn't a nerf.

    Sorcs should get +0.5 USP per point spent in tree in addition to the +0.75 they get in their element, which should get increased to 1.00 to make it comparable to Radiant Servant. This has been said already.

    Any affects on opposing elements are irrelevant as you wouldn't be using those elements as your backup for when your main element was ineffective. This is reaching at best as has been said before.

    I've never needed wand or scroll mastery on a sorc, and never had a problem self-healing. You can't say your class is nerfed because one enhancement is removed and replaced by a dozen others. This has been said before.

    Some people with one build or another may be underwhelmed by the changes.

    They may see others doing some phenominal stuff and get build envy, but again that doesn't mean it's a nerf-fest.

    Nobody is suggesting that the new enhancements in their current incarnation are perfect, I've put in more bug report on the enhancements than any other aspect of the game.

    Allegedly the Lamannia update this Friday has enhancement updates where last week didn't.

    Do you still want to base your arguments on an unfinished system?

    The new enhancements don't nerf every class, and nobody in their right mind would put the hours into this with the aim being to nerf every class.

  14. #14
    Community Member darthhento's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    854

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Wizards get more USP while sorcs get more spell power in their primary element when you add it all up. Spellcraft isn't CHA based but is still a class skill. And besides, proxy nerfing by someone else getting something you don't isn't a nerf.

    Sorcs should get +0.5 USP per point spent in tree in addition to the +0.75 they get in their element, which should get increased to 1.00 to make it comparable to Radiant Servant. This has been said already.

    Any affects on opposing elements are irrelevant as you wouldn't be using those elements as your backup for when your main element was ineffective. This is reaching at best as has been said before.
    So according to you the arcane nuker class is supposed to be weaker in base spell damage than arcane generalist class. Also the arcane nuker should be more of a one trick pony in one element while opposing ones are to be even more shafted, and anything other than a cookie cutter build won't be viable.
    Yeah, right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    I've never needed wand or scroll mastery on a sorc, and never had a problem self-healing. You can't say your class is nerfed because one enhancement is removed and replaced by a dozen others. This has been said before.
    Robots don't need W&S but a fleshy gets raped by this. You obviously never made a viable fleshy human UMD so you can't see how crucial this is to the class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Some people with one build or another may be underwhelmed by the changes.

    They may see others doing some phenominal stuff and get build envy, but again that doesn't mean it's a nerf-fest.

    Nobody is suggesting that the new enhancements in their current incarnation are perfect, I've put in more bug report on the enhancements than any other aspect of the game.

    Allegedly the Lamannia update this Friday has enhancement updates where last week didn't.

    Do you still want to base your arguments on an unfinished system?
    At it's current incarnation it's nerfy as hell. It's a slight improvement to what first came out. And yet it still isn't on par with live. Getting less than what you have IS A NERF. Will it get better on friday? We'll see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    The new enhancements don't nerf every class, and nobody in their right mind would put the hours into this with the aim being to nerf every class.
    Turbine.
    =$==$==$==$==$==$==$==ORIEN==$==$==$==$==$==$==$=
    Darthwolf **(?_?) Zendarth m(?_?m) Darthnoheals \(?_?)
    =$==$==$==$==$==$==House Do'Urden==$==$==$==$==$==$=

  15. #15
    Uber Uber Completionist
    2014 DDO Player Council
    Deadlock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Scotland - where the dwarf accents come from
    Posts
    3,508

    Default

    This won't take long.

    Quote Originally Posted by darthhento View Post
    So according to you the arcane nuker class is supposed to be weaker in base spell damage than arcane generalist class. Also the arcane nuker should be more of a one trick pony in one element while opposing ones are to be even more shafted, and anything other than a cookie cutter build won't be viable.
    You need to understand the difference between USP and class-specific SP. Come back when you do. I don't do cookie cutters, never have, never will. Next?


    Quote Originally Posted by darthhento View Post
    Robots don't need W&S but a fleshy gets raped by this. You obviously never made a viable fleshy human UMD so you can't see how crucial this is to the class.
    If I limit my answer only to my main, you can see the details of what each of the 40 lifes has for self-healing, UMD being a staple option. Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by darthhento View Post
    At it's current incarnation it's nerfy as hell. It's a slight improvement to what first came out. And yet it still isn't on par with live. Getting less than what you have IS A NERF. Will it get better on friday? We'll see.
    You're still trying to apply your myopic view of a single class based on an unfinished system and trying to apply it to every build.

    The new enhancements don't nerf every class, and nobody in their right mind would put the hours into this with the aim being to nerf every class.

  16. #16
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,852

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Not horrid does not equal good.

    There are many problems with the ep, sorcs, spell crits in general, spwr skills, builds that can't be replicated, lack of devotion for classes that have cures but aren't caster specced (druid, ranger, kotc), new combinations that are overpowered and will give some people on the forums aneurysms as they scream for them to be nerfed, loss of hp, prc's not added, racial prc's not added, prc's not filled out.

    Other than every single character doesn't have to reroll what has been done well again?
    OK. I had to log in just to respond to this. If you look closely, rangers still get devotion. It is in either DWS tree or the Tempest tree. I believe it is DWS. It is the center enhancement on the first row, and the one to the right on the first row. Taking just the center enhancement gives you another interesting one just above it on the second row. I re-specced my ranger with these and he puts up some nice numbers on his CSW.

    I would respond to the druid one, but I cannot recall what all she got. I have no paladin and therefore know nothing of their trees.

  17. #17
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,080

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    Here are a few reasons why I believe the developers intend to nerf everyone's classes in the upcoming enhancement pass:

    - To reduce lag. Seriously, I know this sounds like a dumb one, but unfortunately, that is the case. More damage = more server load. In fact, I recall that when Two-Weapon fighting was nerfed slightly, it was to reduce server lag. This is a poor excuse to nerf us, really. It's like saying, "Yeah you can take a shower but you have to turn it off and on again every minute or else the showerhead clogs up." It's a poor workaround for a much bigger issue.
    the TWF lag was 2 parts:
    1) lots and lots of numbers being calculated due to the attack speed
    2) complex physics calculation to see if each weapon hit

    so they dropped attack speed to ease number 1 and the paired both weapons together so TWF combat doesnt generate twice as many physics calculations as other combat styles. number 2 was the bigger lag fix

    DPS is not the cause of lag, it's a lot easier to take one massive number off a mobs HP than it is hundreds of smaller numbers. so they don't need to nerf DPS in the slightest, but giving us bigger hits less often can reduce lag while maintaining the same DPS and having the added advantage is seeing bigger numbers float up
    www.legendsguild.eu A light RP guild that's moved from Keeper in Europe to Thelanis
    Play DDO in 3D, for fweeeee! how to use coloured 3D glasses with DDO.
    East? West? Which way's that? Putting East and West back on the (mini)map
    Tired of chasing blue dots? Find a speed or striding item, vets are hooked on them and you will be too!

  18. #18
    Uber Uber Completionist
    2014 DDO Player Council
    Deadlock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Scotland - where the dwarf accents come from
    Posts
    3,508

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coyopa View Post
    I have no paladin and therefore know nothing of their trees.
    From Sacred Defender's first core ability: +1 HP, +1 Positive Spell Power per point spent in tree. +2% Fortification per Core ability

    Doesn't help someone who wants to spend all their AP in Knight of the Chalice, but it's there as an option.

  19. #19
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    5,345

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    From Sacred Defender's first core ability: +1 HP, +1 Positive Spell Power per point spent in tree. +2% Fortification per Core ability

    Doesn't help someone who wants to spend all their AP in Knight of the Chalice, but it's there as an option.
    That's the root of my complaint self healing is class feature not a prc feature devotion needs to be in all trees for the classes I listed.

  20. #20
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,923

    Default

    Reduce power creep: The era for doing this is long gone. The window of opportunity was right before the shroud came out back in 2007. After that happened we took the power creep plunge and never looked back. To even "challenge" geared out and full destiny toons they have to give mobs elevendy twelve bajillion HP and saves so high that if youre not a complete min max you wont land spells.

    Fix the mistake of giving us too much power. Yeah we have seen this a few times in different eras of this game. They take power away and then make us farm anew if we want to get back to the same level of power we once had.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload