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  1. #1
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    Default An idea inspired by whats wrong with ddo thread

    I'm a casual player. Been playing about 2yrs. and I do go on binges. Was a commited solo player for a year, then joined a guild and had a lot of fun in groups. That guild imploded as well. The grind for gear is mind numbing, not to mention repeating every quest a bizzillion times to a point you can do them with your eyes closed. Now with item augments and new gear, those grind times have become somewhat wasted. Sure there is new high level content, but when you cant find gruops, the grind for gear to make soloing digestable is absurd. All of that takes the fun out of DDO to a degree.

    Eveningstar is a relatively large area. No doubt the Devs could provide an even larger area with instances similar to instance 1-2-3 in the marketplace. Why not create a large wilderness area based on "The Savage Frontier" or something WITH instaces, walk up quests and wandering enemies of various level,(eg. depending on a specific location within this wilderness area). This "Savage Frontier" would be a free for all, with NO "HEADS UP"/NO "ACCEPT DUAL" PVP, the exception being you can only attack those within 2 levels of yourself.(eg. 10th level toon could freely attack a toon between 8-12 level) and the only "bad thing" that would happen if you die is you release and have to repair your gear...big deal. I guess anything outside of money NOT locked down in your inventory could fall and be looted by the victor...be very carefull with your inventory.

    This could be expanded to incorporate "guild wars".(guild kills provide trophies...guildpoints...a level 20 one hit kills a level 2 no trophy...a level 18 snuffs an 19th level guild enemy may get an impressive trophy) Guild "X'" chooses Guild "Y" as a guild enemy where ANY member of waring guilds could freely attack the members of the enemy guild regardles of level. You got a beef with some guy in another guild here's your chance to harass him/her :-),but it may backfire. Groupings/party's consisting of diferent members of guilds would essentially become mercenary companies, with the mean/average level of the party becoming "the group level" when determining what other groups/party's you can freely attack.(mean level 10 party may attack any other party in the 8-12 level range) Trophys could be awarded in a lot of cases.

    The possibilities are endless.

    Of couse shrine guarding would be inevitable, but it wouldn't really matter considering you can just recall anyways. How about "The Battle for the Miribar Shrine"?

  2. #2
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stratagem View Post
    I'm a casual player. Been playing about 2yrs. and I do go on binges. Was a commited solo player for a year, then joined a guild and had a lot of fun in groups. That guild imploded as well. The grind for gear is mind numbing, not to mention repeating every quest a bizzillion times to a point you can do them with your eyes closed. Now with item augments and new gear, those grind times have become somewhat wasted. Sure there is new high level content, but when you cant find gruops, the grind for gear to make soloing digestable is absurd. All of that takes the fun out of DDO to a degree.

    Eveningstar is a relatively large area. No doubt the Devs could provide an even larger area with instances similar to instance 1-2-3 in the marketplace. Why not create a large wilderness area based on "The Savage Frontier" or something WITH instaces, walk up quests and wandering enemies of various level,(eg. depending on a specific location within this wilderness area). This "Savage Frontier" would be a free for all, with NO "HEADS UP"/NO "ACCEPT DUAL" PVP, the exception being you can only attack those within 2 levels of yourself.(eg. 10th level toon could freely attack a toon between 8-12 level) and the only "bad thing" that would happen if you die is you release and have to repair your gear...big deal. I guess anything outside of money NOT locked down in your inventory could fall and be looted by the victor...be very carefull with your inventory.

    This could be expanded to incorporate "guild wars".(guild kills provide trophies...guildpoints...a level 20 one hit kills a level 2 no trophy...a level 18 snuffs an 19th level guild enemy may get an impressive trophy) Guild "X'" chooses Guild "Y" as a guild enemy where ANY member of waring guilds could freely attack the members of the enemy guild regardles of level. You got a beef with some guy in another guild here's your chance to harass him/her :-),but it may backfire. Groupings/party's consisting of diferent members of guilds would essentially become mercenary companies, with the mean/average level of the party becoming "the group level" when determining what other groups/party's you can freely attack.(mean level 10 party may attack any other party in the 8-12 level range) Trophys could be awarded in a lot of cases.

    The possibilities are endless.

    Of couse shrine guarding would be inevitable, but it wouldn't really matter considering you can just recall anyways. How about "The Battle for the Miribar Shrine"?
    This game isn't balanced for pvp. While this might work fine in other games, here you'd probably just get super snipers with adrenaline one shotting you for over 1500 hp before you even see them. Doesn't sound like too much fun to me.
    Last edited by redspecter23; 07-23-2013 at 01:00 AM.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Terrible idea.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by stratagem View Post
    Why not create a large wilderness area based on "The Savage Frontier" or something WITH instaces, walk up quests and wandering enemies of various level,(eg. depending on a specific location within this wilderness area). This "Savage Frontier" would be a free for all, with NO "HEADS UP"/NO "ACCEPT DUAL" PVP, the exception being you can only attack those within 2 levels of yourself.(eg. 10th level toon could freely attack a toon between 8-12 level) and the only "bad thing" that would happen if you die is you release and have to repair your gear...big deal.
    First, you're assuming that any significant percentage of the DDO population cares about PvP. Considering that the only "PvP" that DDO has is the tavern brawl, I think its safe to say that if that was even remotely popular Turbine would consider more PvP.

    Second, as has been pointed out, DDO is not balanced for PvP.

    I understand that a lot of other MMOs have PvP but I personally consider fighting other PCs no more than a bragging contest. I play MMOs for the heroic adventure and I hope that DDO stays in that vein.

  5. #5
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    I fully understand the thrill of fighting other players, like playing a game of chess, where the only thing that keeps the game going is pitting your wits against another player.

    However, DDO has such ridiculously unbalanced classes, abilities, and just stuff in the end, there is simply no way to make PvP anything worthwhile in DDO because that would literally require then to reinvent the wheel that turns this game.

    Turbine is making a MOBA off the DC universe, so that might be something to look into.

  6. #6
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stratagem View Post
    I'm a casual player. Been playing about 2yrs. and I do go on binges. Was a commited solo player for a year, then joined a guild and had a lot of fun in groups. That guild imploded as well. The grind for gear is mind numbing, not to mention repeating every quest a bizzillion times to a point you can do them with your eyes closed. Now with item augments and new gear, those grind times have become somewhat wasted. Sure there is new high level content, but when you cant find gruops, the grind for gear to make soloing digestable is absurd. All of that takes the fun out of DDO to a degree.

    Eveningstar is a relatively large area. No doubt the Devs could provide an even larger area with instances similar to instance 1-2-3 in the marketplace. Why not create a large wilderness area based on "The Savage Frontier" or something WITH instaces, walk up quests and wandering enemies of various level,(eg. depending on a specific location within this wilderness area).
    I was with you up to here OP.

    Then all of a sudden you brought PvP into it!

    Not just that but you had the temerity to make it ALL ABOUT PvP!

    I DON'T EVER want to PvP in this game!

    You make PvP mandatory and I WILL LEAVE the game NEVER to RETURN!

    Go Play any of a myriad of other MMOs and Leave DDO to those of us who actually LIKE DDO!

  7. #7
    Community Member relenttless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    I was with you up to here OP.

    Then all of a sudden you brought PvP into it!

    Not just that but you had the temerity to make it ALL ABOUT PvP!

    I DON'T EVER want to PvP in this game!

    You make PvP mandatory and I WILL LEAVE the game NEVER to RETURN!

    Go Play any of a myriad of other MMOs and Leave DDO to those of us who actually LIKE DDO!
    A bit harsh but I feel where you are coming from
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  8. #8
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    I'm totally against PVP in this game. Not only are the classes unbalanced, DDO has always been about cooperation.

    I'm in favor or areas where players can cooperate without grouping, though. I very much like the concept of the Crystal Cove outdoor area, where monsters spawn for everyone to attack,, but players can't fight each other. I had a lot of run running around, healing people in fights and watching players help each other out without any grouping.

    The CC concept could be take further ahead, I suppose, by making a large outdoor area with many caves etc, where people don't constantly run into each other but you have a decent chance to bump into other people who are fighting, needing help or just band together to roam without a concrete quest objective.

    I suppose it'll need some thinking about making it worth the time in loot and xp for everyone, but that's certainly a problem that can be solved.

  9. #9
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    No to pvp.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    No to pvp.
    No PVP, please!

  11. #11
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stratagem View Post
    I'm a casual player. Been playing about 2yrs. and I do go on binges. Was a commited solo player for a year, then joined a guild and had a lot of fun in groups. That guild imploded as well. The grind for gear is mind numbing, not to mention repeating every quest a bizzillion times to a point you can do them with your eyes closed. Now with item augments and new gear, those grind times have become somewhat wasted. Sure there is new high level content, but when you cant find gruops, the grind for gear to make soloing digestable is absurd. All of that takes the fun out of DDO to a degree.

    Eveningstar is a relatively large area. No doubt the Devs could provide an even larger area with instances similar to instance 1-2-3 in the marketplace. Why not create a large wilderness area based on "The Savage Frontier" or something WITH instaces, walk up quests and wandering enemies of various level,(eg. depending on a specific location within this wilderness area). This "Savage Frontier" would be a free for all, with NO "HEADS UP"/NO "ACCEPT DUAL" PVP, the exception being you can only attack those within 2 levels of yourself.(eg. 10th level toon could freely attack a toon between 8-12 level) and the only "bad thing" that would happen if you die is you release and have to repair your gear...big deal. I guess anything outside of money NOT locked down in your inventory could fall and be looted by the victor...be very carefull with your inventory.

    This could be expanded to incorporate "guild wars".(guild kills provide trophies...guildpoints...a level 20 one hit kills a level 2 no trophy...a level 18 snuffs an 19th level guild enemy may get an impressive trophy) Guild "X'" chooses Guild "Y" as a guild enemy where ANY member of waring guilds could freely attack the members of the enemy guild regardles of level. You got a beef with some guy in another guild here's your chance to harass him/her :-),but it may backfire. Groupings/party's consisting of diferent members of guilds would essentially become mercenary companies, with the mean/average level of the party becoming "the group level" when determining what other groups/party's you can freely attack.(mean level 10 party may attack any other party in the 8-12 level range) Trophys could be awarded in a lot of cases.

    The possibilities are endless.

    Of couse shrine guarding would be inevitable, but it wouldn't really matter considering you can just recall anyways. How about "The Battle for the Miribar Shrine"?

    Dude Guild Wars 2 is probably the game for you. It seems to match what you are looking for here quite a bit better.

    DDO is terribad for PvP. There are so many 1 shot kill methods out there, many of which you would have no way of defending yourself against this would just turn into a massive Gank-fest quickly abandoned by the majority of the player base.

    Just like the Tavern Brawl pits are. Also you do realise that there are PvP instances right? There are entire maps where your team can challenge others and go at it like Striped Twilight Hyena's.

    They are empty to and this is for a reason, believe me.


  12. #12
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    This game isn't balanced for pvp. While this might work fine in other games, here you'd probably just get super snipers with adrenaline one shotting you for over 1500 hp before you even see them. Doesn't sound like too much fun to me.
    I knew a guy who came to DDO from Perfect World, WoW etc.

    He constantly went on about how he'd sit his Assassin in Invis Mode in a PvP Zone and Just Gank anyone who came past!

    He loved that - I thought it sounded disgusting frankly!

    Seriously now - D&D has always been about Teamwork and Co-Operation - One of the main reasons I no longer play PnP is because Every one I talk to these days wants to play EVIL Characters!
    No-One wants to co-operate anymore - Lawful Good is a Dirty Word, The Scout has disappeared {Note Adventuring Rogues aren't going to steal from their companions!}.


    Now Obviously DDO has moved away from FORCED Teamwork {actually a good thing in my View} to allow Soloing and short-man groups.
    8/9 Man Groups are pretty common in PnP yet DDO sticks groups at 6 {except for Raids} anyway!

    BUT this doesn't mean that the "Every man for Himself" world view should become Prevalent surely?


    Having said all this - I'm NOT against PvP being in DDO - I'm simply against it EVER becoming MANDATORY!
    I'd much prefer the Devs to concentrate on Opposed Quests when considering PvP:

    Take Purge the Heretics {a loathed quest by many} as an example...

    Silver Flame Priest {Yeah we find out the truth MUCH later but for now that's what he is} asks a H-Orc Barb to get a group together and wipe out a bunch of Heretics.
    Meanwhile
    Sovereign Host Priest stops a Drow Paladin in the street and mentions to her that his Worshippers are being Harassed by Thugs and could she bring some friends along to defend them from these animals?

    Paladin's Group becomes the Defenders {Replacing the Halfling Mercs}.
    Barb's Group are the Attackers

    XP could be earned {by BOTH Groups} on a sliding scale dependant on how far Attackers get, How long Defenders hold out etc.
    BUT Not greatly over-weighting the XP earned by running said quest the normal way!

    Attackers could take 1000 Plat from each defender Killed {Put your Plat in the Shared Band before entering and you get reduced to -1000 Plat}.
    The End Chests would also be there as usual

    Defenders could take 1000 Plat from each attacker killed if they wished to do so - No Chest BUT CHOOSABLE NPC reward for each defender {Lesser Heart of Wood - 10% chance, Flawless Sibery Shard, Portable Hole, Legendary Vic etc.}.


    There's a number of quests in this game where the Devs could allow this option:

    Gwylan's Stand {Hey - Multiple defender groups opportunity}
    Church and the Cult {If a Rakshasa can fool dumb Players then a Vampire certainly can!}
    Hiding in Plain Sight {Hazadill has money to Pay Mercs}
    Lords of Dust {Him again!}

    New Ones could be designed AND best of all - There'd be no need to worry about Level Ranges {NPC's Scale to Level of PCs}.
    Two lvl 6-8 Groups in Purge the Heretics OR Two Lvl 25 Groups in same quest = No real difference!

    P.S. Defenders get the Good Reward in Purge the Heretics BUT:
    Attackers get Rewarded in Church and the Cult!
    And so on!


    No messing about with Special Rules for these Instances - If it's allowed in standard quests it's allowed here!
    Yes the Defenders would have quite an advantage {terrain and the ability to pick their spot}
    BUT
    The Attackers could be provided with the ability to withdraw up to 3 times {i.e. recall, rest up and return} with no penalty
    Whilst the Defenders only have the ONE Shrine {Possibly 2 or 3 in gwylan's}.


    And Finally:

    6 man, 12 man - Nah!
    Defenders can have a Party {or Multiple Parties} of up to 24
    Attackers can have a Party of up to 24

    If less than 6 Defenders - The Defense is strengthened with NPC Mercs who may {or may not} do what the PCs want them to!

    If less than 6 Attackers - A Group of NPC Thugs will join them at the start of quest {and again may or may not follow orders!}.

  13. #13
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    They'd have to disable a bunch of abilities for PvP to be even close to balanced. The only change to PvP they should do is to make sneak work, because that would greatly please me.

    If you want PvP, this is not the game for you. Try DotA2 or Dark Souls.

  14. #14
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    Anyone who thinks this game needs more PvP need only stand around in the Harbor for 10 or 15 minutes to be completely disabused of the notion.

    The time I got hooked on jumping for purple coins, I actually turned general chat off for the first time ever since I began playing.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Anyone who thinks this game needs more PvP need only stand around in the Harbor for 10 or 15 minutes to be completely disabused of the notion.

    The time I got hooked on jumping for purple coins, I actually turned general chat off for the first time ever since I began playing.
    Wait.

    What's this "general chat"?

  16. #16
    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stratagem View Post
    I'm a casual player. Been playing about 2yrs. and I do go on binges. Was a commited solo player for a year, then joined a guild and had a lot of fun in groups. That guild imploded as well. The grind for gear is mind numbing, not to mention repeating every quest a bizzillion times to a point you can do them with your eyes closed. Now with item augments and new gear, those grind times have become somewhat wasted. Sure there is new high level content, but when you cant find gruops, the grind for gear to make soloing digestable is absurd. All of that takes the fun out of DDO to a degree.

    Eveningstar is a relatively large area. No doubt the Devs could provide an even larger area with instances similar to instance 1-2-3 in the marketplace. Why not create a large wilderness area based on "The Savage Frontier" or something WITH instaces, walk up quests and wandering enemies of various level,(eg. depending on a specific location within this wilderness area). This "Savage Frontier" would be a free for all, with NO "HEADS UP"/NO "ACCEPT DUAL" PVP, the exception being you can only attack those within 2 levels of yourself.(eg. 10th level toon could freely attack a toon between 8-12 level) and the only "bad thing" that would happen if you die is you release and have to repair your gear...big deal. I guess anything outside of money NOT locked down in your inventory could fall and be looted by the victor...be very carefull with your inventory.

    This could be expanded to incorporate "guild wars".(guild kills provide trophies...guildpoints...a level 20 one hit kills a level 2 no trophy...a level 18 snuffs an 19th level guild enemy may get an impressive trophy) Guild "X'" chooses Guild "Y" as a guild enemy where ANY member of waring guilds could freely attack the members of the enemy guild regardles of level. You got a beef with some guy in another guild here's your chance to harass him/her :-),but it may backfire. Groupings/party's consisting of diferent members of guilds would essentially become mercenary companies, with the mean/average level of the party becoming "the group level" when determining what other groups/party's you can freely attack.(mean level 10 party may attack any other party in the 8-12 level range) Trophys could be awarded in a lot of cases.

    The possibilities are endless.

    Of couse shrine guarding would be inevitable, but it wouldn't really matter considering you can just recall anyways. How about "The Battle for the Miribar Shrine"?
    No PvP, sorry. This is DDO, not a clone of GW2 or anything.

    The only idea from your post I like is a huge anf free instanced adventure area, much like Deleras Graveyard in Marbar time, perhaps with some walkup adventures. Isn´t there a nice barren wilderness North of Cormyr and south of Anauroch waiting to be filled with adventuring Players?

  17. #17
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    snip
    Here's the problem with pvp in ddo
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t80TAtim910
    No matter what build you have, your toon is dead in the first second, it's all about who has the better video card to see the other person first from maximum draw distance.

  18. #18
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Here's the problem with pvp in ddo
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t80TAtim910
    No matter what build you have, your toon is dead in the first second, it's all about who has the better video card to see the other person first from maximum draw distance.
    Hey - No way could I do what that guy did there BUT I still wish the Devs had left it alone!

    They could have made an Epic HoX - They Still could {Come on Devs!} with Xyzzy Beefed up BUT left Heroic alone!


    Anyway...

    I'm not sure if you even bothered to read my post that you snipped as it was nothing to do with One Vs One PvP!

    In fact it was a specific suggestion for the Devs to provide Opposed Questing {in a controlled environment - rather than everywhere}!

    You really believe a group of players Defending a Sov Host Temple are going to sit in the middle of a big room and let you throw everything you've got at em?

    You really think a group of players will act like a group of mobs and ignore the guy who's doing all the dmg because you sent your Tank in first?
    Actually - So as to allow the Tank to be useful - The Devs should provide Opposed Intim vs Haggle or Diplo Checks so as Players can't simply ignore him/her!


    And OK so "That Guy" is on the Attacker's Team and "Another guy" is on the Defender's Team - They quickly annihilate each other and the rest of the Attackers and Defenders are back to square one!


    P.S. I missed one must if this was to work - Upon entering Opposed Quests Players would HAVE TO Receive x30 to their HP!

  19. #19
    Community Member Wanesa's Avatar
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    I did not read whole discussion. I am not missing PvP in DDO however a some PvP mode can be implemented in DDO without need to have balanced classes. It is only need balanced groups. PvP is not only one to one. PvP adventures like raids for two groups of 6 toons running both against to E and P (other group) at the end of run can be great fun too.

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanesa View Post
    I did not read whole discussion. I am not missing PvP in DDO however a some PvP mode can be implemented in DDO without need to have balanced classes. It is only need balanced groups. PvP is not only one to one. PvP adventures like raids for two groups of 6 toons running both against to E and P (other group) at the end of run can be great fun too.
    I'm guessing you haven't played many group PvP games if you think DDO would work good, or even tolerably bad, as one. 6 on 6 soon becomes 1 on 1+ with the 5 designated targets from one or both sides, being one shotted by massed ranged attacks. What character can take 6 polar rays to the face, much less 6 disintegrates? Melee would be totally useless as they would never work to full potential if they ever even lived long enough to get close enough to attack, not to mention that to attempt to mass their effect, more than one melee would need to be close enough together to make AoE's effective.

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