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  1. #1
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    Default Bard Multiclassing ideas

    Hello I am a lvl 5 bard and I was wondering what a good multiclass would be for me I was thinking maybe 15 bard/5 Barbarian/5 Rogue I dont know give me your thoughts

  2. #2
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    1) A 15/5/5 split is impossible - you can only have 20 levels.
    2) It seems a rather meaningless split.
    3) You should never multiclass unless you planned to... Before making the toon. Never change the plan of a build, unless you know exactly what you're doing.

    Now, if you're asking what's good to splash on your bard - I have no clue.
    It depends on what you want.
    Melee? Range? CC? Healing? Traps?
    What tomes do you have? What race are you?

    More to the point, what would 5 rogue and 5 barbarian give you?
    And why do you want 15 bard?
    Last edited by Soulfurnace; 07-22-2013 at 10:49 PM.

  3. #3
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    First off, generally it is a very bad idea to multiclass unless it was planned out well before you created your character because it can be tricky to make everything fit just right in a multiclass.

    However, bards are versatile and maaaybe you can make something work...maybe. Without knowing anything about your build, my advice is to stay pure. Speaking of, could you please post your starting stats and feats taken so far?

    As the other poster mentioned, you can't actually have 25 "class" levels. You get 20 class levels and the final 5 levels are simply "epic levels" with no class designation. (For example, level 25 could be 20 bard/5 epic)

    The "best" bard splash builds are probably 16 bard/2 fighter/2 rogue..consider dumping dex, wis, and low cha as well. Get a decent int and take insightful reflexes if you do indeed dump dex. Going back to what I mentioned in my first sentence..a lot of builds with rogue splashes it is vital to make rogue your very first level because you get a million skill points, if you decided to splash rogue now it'd be very unlikely you could max trap skills.

    A fun build that I made is 12 bard/6 ranger/2 rogue. It is not "ideal" but she gets some fun stuff like manyshot, free 2 weapon fighting feats, and ridiculous saves. I have no problem running Epic normal with her, and she's a great addition to parties (ran my first EE in a group today, went pretty well considering she's been shelved for the past several updates and is way undergeared as a result).

    You could also try 16 bard/2 ranger/2 rogue. I haven't tried this build so no comment, but it might be your best bet if you're set on multiclassing your current bard (since it wouldn't need to get traps)

    8 bard/12 fighter has been done, and some people love it..basically a fighter with rage/haste/UMD/Ironskin

    I have run a bard/barbarian mix and didn't like it much. Whenever you rage, you can't cast spells, use wands, or use scrolls.

    That's all I can think of off the top of my head, hope that helps.

  4. #4
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    Marinerfan gives some seriously good advice there.

    However, a couple of things....

    - You cannot cast spells while Barb-raged. This is actually a big deal. Bards rock at self-healing, and if you can't heal in a pinch, you're dead. Does the Barb-rage ability as opposed to the spell-rage ability really offset this?

    - I disagree with the Bard 16 split. You'll get most out of the bard class (assuming you are playing it as a buffer and singer) at level 15. Level 6 spells are no use to a bard without DC (which you will not have), and Inspire Heroics kicks in at level 15.

    - The rogue splash is nothing short of amazing with this class. You'll gain trapping (and opening locks wow!), and evasion. You'll lose....nothing?

    - Fighter is the way to go with your remaining levels. You can go 15 brd/3ftr/2rog for an extra feat (can be a big deal) or 15 brd/2ftr/3rog for some extra sneak attack damage (which can also be a big deal depending on how you play).

    - Builds like this work better (imo) with THF rather than TWF, and also have half the resource cost - it's cheaper to buy one big weapon than two little ones. Having said that, if you are dwarf it may make sense for you to go TWF.

    - Cha is not your primary stat - you want the bard levels for buffing, not for attack. You cannot be ambivalent about this - you either go max Cha (with the corresponding feats), and be a CC'er, or you go lower-Cha and be a buffer. Don't underestimate this - being a buffer is seriously welcome in a party, and solo it's just the bee's knees, the wasp's ankles, and the dog's...I forget :P

    - You will be feat starved. You NEED Emp Healing in order to keep yourself alive and also to take over as backup if the FVS (or Cleric I guess :P) dies. Extend also will reduce the amount of Paracetamol you eat. It's nice to have self=-buffs but if you have to cast them every 2 mins, it's a pain in the fundament. For this reason (and this reason alone), trying to fit in TWF is hard (hell, even all the important THF feats are hard to fit in).

    Just what I have found so far with my bard (who in fairness is only level 10), but I'm fairly sure this is the life I want in DDO

    Aes.

  5. #5
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    It's outdated, but this thread contains links to lots of bard builds. You'll have to fix the links manually, though, because it hasn't been updated since the forum "upgrade;" just change the "/en/" in the URL to "/forums/" after clicking the link.

    Also see my Bardcher thread for AA bards.

  6. #6
    Community Member mezzorco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istaria1 View Post
    - I disagree with the Bard 16 split. You'll get most out of the bard class (assuming you are playing it as a buffer and singer) at level 15. Level 6 spells are no use to a bard without DC (which you will not have), and Inspire Heroics kicks in at level 15.

    - Fighter is the way to go with your remaining levels. You can go 15 brd/3ftr/2rog for an extra feat (can be a big deal) or 15 brd/2ftr/3rog for some extra sneak attack damage (which can also be a big deal depending on how you play).

    - Builds like this work better (imo) with THF rather than TWF, and also have half the resource cost - it's cheaper to buy one big weapon than two little ones. Having said that, if you are dwarf it may make sense for you to go TWF.
    Bard 16 gives you access to mass cure moderate and Otto's irresistible dance. The first is your best aoe cure, the second has no save (only SR check) so you can use it quite effectively even with 16 bard (and low CHA, it doesn't count towards SR).

    Fighter helps a lot with feats, but you're wrong suggesting 3 levels. Fighters gain feats at 1, 2 and 4, so i would suggest 16/2/2 or 16/3 rogue/1 fighter for more SA. Never take odd fighter levels.

    Bards are feat starved as you say, so going THF is simpler but not always better. Remember that all +damage buffs (inspire courage, good hope, UMDed divine favor, rogue sneak attack) affect ALL your attacks, so TWF means doubling this source of damage. Bards, expecially when multiclassed rogue, can gain good amounts of this type of damage, and going warchanter further emphasizes this aspect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marinerfan View Post
    First off, generally it is a very bad idea to multiclass unless it was planned out well before you created your character because it can be tricky to make everything fit just right in a multiclass.

    However, bards are versatile and maaaybe you can make something work...maybe.
    ..........
    Going back to what I mentioned in my first sentence..a lot of builds with rogue splashes it is vital to make rogue your very first level because you get a million skill points, if you decided to splash rogue now it'd be very unlikely you could max trap skills.
    Then again, if we get those +20 reincarnation tokens in a couple of weeks anyway, it shouldn't be a problem any more after then.

    Quote Originally Posted by marinerfan View Post
    You could also try 16 bard/2 ranger/2 rogue. I haven't tried this build so no comment, but it might be your best bet if you're set on multiclassing your current bard (since it wouldn't need to get traps)
    I've started one of this kind. At level 5 so far (having fun in Crystal Cove), so I don't know how good it'll end up being when "grown up" but... well, there's a thread for it, here. Can max trap skills with a reasonable int if taking level 1 as rogue.


    Quote Originally Posted by Istaria1 View Post
    - You cannot cast spells while Barb-raged. This is actually a big deal. Bards rock at self-healing, and if you can't heal in a pinch, you're dead. Does the Barb-rage ability as opposed to the spell-rage ability really offset this?
    I also have an umpteen-level warchanter of the "revisited path" build by tihocan, at WC II it gets 3 barb-rages and... well. Situationally useful very rarely by then.

    Fast movement (stacks with exp retreat I think?) and the +1 barb Power Attack enhancement are more useful at these levels. Did use the barb rages regularly until level 10 or so, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Istaria1 View Post
    - I disagree with the Bard 16 split. You'll get most out of the bard class (assuming you are playing it as a buffer and singer) at level 15. Level 6 spells are no use to a bard without DC (which you will not have), and Inspire Heroics kicks in at level 15.
    I was planning on going 16 and 18 bard with mine though, but what do I know... of the 9 level 6 bard spells, only two seem to be offensives with a DC - three if you count Cure Mod Mass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Istaria1 View Post
    - The rogue splash is nothing short of amazing with this class. You'll gain trapping (and opening locks wow!), and evasion. You'll lose....nothing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Istaria1 View Post
    - Fighter is the way to go with your remaining levels. You can go 15 brd/3ftr/2rog for an extra feat (can be a big deal) or 15 brd/2ftr/3rog for some extra sneak attack damage (which can also be a big deal depending on how you play).

    - Builds like this work better (imo) with THF rather than TWF, and also have half the resource cost - it's cheaper to buy one big weapon than two little ones. Having said that, if you are dwarf it may make sense for you to go TWF.
    Um. Ftr 3 doesn't give a feat.

    I was planning on going TWF eventually with the trapper bard, in part because it works better with sneak attack and one of the feats comes from the ranger autogrants. Also, with no feat slot for Insightful Reflexes, the dex requirement shouldn't be all that bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Istaria1 View Post
    - Cha is not your primary stat - you want the bard levels for buffing, not for attack. You cannot be ambivalent about this - you either go max Cha (with the corresponding feats), and be a CC'er, or you go lower-Cha and be a buffer. Don't underestimate this - being a buffer is seriously welcome in a party, and solo it's just the bee's knees, the wasp's ankles, and the dog's...I forget :P

    - You will be feat starved. You NEED Emp Healing in order to keep yourself alive and also to take over as backup if the FVS (or Cleric I guess :P) dies. Extend also will reduce the amount of Paracetamol you eat. It's nice to have self=-buffs but if you have to cast them every 2 mins, it's a pain in the fundament. For this reason (and this reason alone), trying to fit in TWF is hard (hell, even all the important THF feats are hard to fit in).
    Feat-starved does describe the situation quite well, yes.

    Well, we shall see how well my trapper bard does without any metamagics... eventually.
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).

  8. #8
    Community Member PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istaria1 View Post
    Level 6 spells are no use to a bard without DC (which you will not have) . . .
    Cure moderate mass, Heroes' Feast, and Otto's IRRESISTABLE dance don't care jack about your DC's, yo.
    I edited a book!

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  9. #9
    Community Member PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    I'm doing a bard life on my main atm and I would actually suggest considering 2 rogue/2 ranger/16 bard. 2 ranger gets you a bunch of highly useful feats--pretty much the ones you'd want to be spending your 2 fighter feats on ANYWAY. It also has much better skill points than fighter which helps with keeping your trap skills maxed out. With two levels of ranger you've got Bow Strength, Rapid Shot, and Two-weapon fighting, which sets you right up to be able to switch from melee to ranged (always useful for low HP characters like, say, BARDS) and back. You can then do this with your heroic feats:

    1 Toughness
    3 Point Blank Shot (or power attack)
    6 Manyshot (or Force of Personality or Skill Focus: UMD)
    9 Extend Spell
    12 Emp. Healing Spell
    16 Mental Toughness (or precise shot or improved twf, whatever floats your boat)
    18 Imp. Mental Toughness (or improved precise shot or greater twf)

    Not feat-starved and has some options. If you're playing an elf or half-elf (I'd advise half-elf with Paladin dilettante, personally, that +5 to saves on a bard is REALLY nice) you can additionally change out 1 of those feats for Weapon Focus: Ranged and take the entire Elven Arcane Archer prestige line which is very nice for a bard.
    I edited a book!

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  10. #10
    Community Member Uidolon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    I'm doing a bard life on my main atm and I would actually suggest considering 2 rogue/2 ranger/16 bard. 2 ranger gets you a bunch of highly useful feats--pretty much the ones you'd want to be spending your 2 fighter feats on ANYWAY. It also has much better skill points than fighter which helps with keeping your trap skills maxed out. With two levels of ranger you've got Bow Strength, Rapid Shot, and Two-weapon fighting, which sets you right up to be able to switch from melee to ranged (always useful for low HP characters like, say, BARDS) and back. You can then do this with your heroic feats:

    1 Toughness
    3 Point Blank Shot (or power attack)
    6 Manyshot (or Force of Personality or Skill Focus: UMD)
    9 Extend Spell
    12 Emp. Healing Spell
    16 Mental Toughness (or precise shot or improved twf, whatever floats your boat)
    18 Imp. Mental Toughness (or improved precise shot or greater twf)

    Not feat-starved and has some options. If you're playing an elf or half-elf (I'd advise half-elf with Paladin dilettante, personally, that +5 to saves on a bard is REALLY nice) you can additionally change out 1 of those feats for Weapon Focus: Ranged and take the entire Elven Arcane Archer prestige line which is very nice for a bard.
    keep in mind your reccomending a new player to try to get ranged and 2weapons and then spread his focus thinly between these two this is a super advanced build in my opinion and requires him not only to keep himself stocked with 2weapons but also with a bow at each lvl yeah like that going to happen for a new player. dont really like the build even for a TR character but thats besides the point this is not a beginner build at all

    mental thougness? what exactly is he supposed to do with that sp at lvl16-18+ his highest selfheal with only empowerhealing is heal critical which hits for 108 with 100% devotion and 100% enhachments hits for 132 if you have empowerhealing that is not a viable selfheal.
    and good luck trowing a mass serious for a heal of 100hp at lvl20 all those meta feats are basically useless since he has no healing potential with only emp healing he needs emp healing +maxmise+quicken to be able to help out healing a party then he might want the MentalThoughness feats but then he doesnt have room since his taken all those others.


    this is what id call a piking bard build he sings his songs then runs along and it looks like his doing something but its a illusion since his a str build that has 0 dps.
    if you go THF you can take cleave and great cleave instead of the THF feats then at lvl21 you qualify for overwhelmingly critical epic feat this is three feat compare that with the TWF ImpTWF gTWF and try to guess which build has vastly superior DPS then consider the fact that Overwhelming critical also works on bows and you begin to see why i dont like your build it has no damage.

    you dont have room for either extend or any of the MT feats in your build you need improve critical ranged and improve critical for one of the 2weapons if you plan on switching between them

    im thinking treeform or legendary dreadnaught as a ED for this build his already far from viable DPS so need someting to give him little oomp once he hits epics

    also im missing a viable selfheal in your build exactly how much do you think his selfheal will hit for at lvl16-25 his most potent selfheal is cure critical this hits for 132 with empower healing 100% from enchamnts and 100% from devotion item this is not what id call a viable selfheal you really need emp healing +maxi to be able to selfheal and id like quicken also so he can chain cure crit and cure serious both empH+maxi+quickened for 200hp back to fullish at 700hp in 2 secs

    so if you do want to go 2rang2rogue id say your viable build would be

    1thoughness
    3cleave
    5PA
    8Gcleave
    12improve critical slashing (axes if you wanna go legendary dreadnaught at epic destiny)
    this is just what feats you need for THF if you do want to get manyshot thats fine but then you lose the selfhealing potential and then im doubtful if you would actully want to go close combat all the time id estimate you would have around 800+hp at lvl25 with LD and good equip id settle for getting maximize+quicken but then the ranger lvls are vasted and you would have been better of getting 2fighter so lets try to get ranged focus also
    16PBS
    18manyshot
    21overwhelming critical
    24 improve crititcal: ranged

    this is how id build the 2rog2rang bard but to be honest its super ultra tight on feats its trying to be to much at the same time, did not manage to squeeze in the pre req for arcane archer weapon focus ranged your suggestion of extend and MT feats i just dont understand how you could even consider those feats this is a dps build.

    if you dropped the 2 rog lvls you could take 2fight and qualify for arcane archer y grabbing weapon focus;ranged and then maybe grab the epic thougness feat if you can qualify with 21con its a pretty even trade with evasion but his still gona lack selfheal so maybe taking maxmize and quicken would be better

    anyhow this a super advanced build in my opinion and should not be reccomend to a new player which i assume the orginal poster is by his join date of 2013 and 2 forum posts hed be better of getting 2fight 2rogu and focus on two handed

    my reccomended build
    2rog 2 fighter 16bard
    str/con

    1thoughness
    3cleave
    5PA
    8Gcleave
    12improve critical slashing
    and then grab
    16maxmize
    18quicken
    21overwhelmingly critical
    24 if he can qualify for it id say go for epic thougness (21con) and if not go for emp heal
    this seems a much more new player frinedly build only a single weapon needed and good selfheal. dwarf would give early game boost to axe and saves(late) and hp two weak points of bards.
    human would also make a good race with its extra feat being a large boost but id still favor the dwarf build the healing amp is also worth meantioning. Helves would make like psycho said a good race and the boost to saves a good match + its healing amplicifation but id judge the ugliness of Helves a deal breaker for many and here id say its not quite as good as dwarf for the build and about equal with human.

    plays like a melee only he has selfbuff of haste/displacement and selfhealing and no save cc ability and the ability to put basically any enemy to sleep with his songs(which all bard builds have ofcourse). this class combo of 16bard 2rog2fight has remained a very popular bard build for a very long time and id judge it very sturdy against nerfs but 2weapons might become better in the future but for bards the main problem off lack of feats will likely always make 2handed fighting a strong choice even if they boost 2weapons fighting to be the top dog again.
    Last edited by Uidolon; 08-05-2013 at 09:00 PM.

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