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  1. #1
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    Default Dwarven TWF dps pali ?

    So im basically 'new' to DFO but i know this is what i want to be ! But with only a 28 point build (unless favor farming isnt that hard?) I know this game has a lot of advanced concepts that become apparent later in the game like tome usage and TR and other stat bonuses. I think i have my starting stats at 12, 16, 14, 8, 8, 14.

    But have no idea where to go with enhancements since they seem to branch out quite considerably. Also 2 levels in Fighter are probably important ? Should i start as a fighter ? Lastly, do long bow paladins work ? i noticed a enhancement thingy for longbows so thought i'd ask.

  2. #2
    Community Member blackdoguk's Avatar
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    Welcome to DDO, we're glad to have you! I'm a melee twf khopesh player, and its great fun. Most of knowledge is in fighter/barb but I'll try to help you out where I can.

    Firstly it is not currently possible (according to ddowiki) to hit 1750 favour running just the free to play quests. You may need to consider an adventure pack like the vale or gianthold (which are the best buys IMO) to help you hit 1750. I wouldn't consider this much favour "farming" as that's a lot of game time, instead its more of a milestone as you play.

    Not having a 32 point build yet does hurt our character considerations a little as for twf we need

    15/16 dex (and tomes to help us hit pre requisites for the two weapon fighting feats which are out bread and butter.
    A great strength score
    Good Con for hit points and survivability
    Before we even get to Charisma which is where our paladin skills can really shine (bonus to saves, smite and spell pre requisites)

    28 points is going to be a squeeze here. Being dwarf hurts our already low charisma, and if your dex is 14 (which i think is what you posted) then we need a +3 tome to get our dex to 17. Ive played (with a pretty big break) for three and a half years, and still don't have a +3 strength tome, but then again I'm pretty sure Turbine has someone on staff who ninja loots my good gear before I pop the chest.

    Feats wise two fighter feats will help us for twf, however I'm pretty sure you could squeeze in everything you need by going human,

    Also bear in mind (and i say this as somebody who obsesses about gear and has paid for this charactrer trait with hundreds of hours worth of grinding) that for two weapon fighting we need two weapons. This sounds trivial, but when i began my character concept for my main I truthfully didnt consider that when it came time for me to craft out awesome DR beater shroud weapons, I would have to farm for 10 large dragon scales while my fellow barbs were off crafting hit point items and other useful stuff. Being TWF is a costly exercise, especially for a new player who doesn't have a lot of crafting resources or plat.

    Even with all my cool khopeshes (some low level icy burst metalline pure good beasties) I dont really swap to two weapon fighting till about level 12. At low levels, without a lot of feats or gear its a lot more efficient to grab the biggest axe you can and go swinging. This is a lot cheaper, and less time intensive.

    Were I you I'd think about your requirements a little. I'd probably start as a THF human Pali, Str, Con, Cha and pray to the loot gods. If you pick up some good weapons we can hold on to them for a next life, or respec later on.That said if this is what you are set on, you should go for it, play what you enjoy, and work to make it effective.

    Lastly survivabiity is important for new players and this class gives us some good healing options and will hopefully provide a good means for exploring the game and smoothing out the learning curve.

    Im sorry if some of this information is out of date/incorrect/not specific to paladins, but hopefully someone else will chime in if thats the case.

    Enjoy DDO!
    Last edited by blackdoguk; 07-22-2013 at 03:03 AM.

    Barbachop/Fizzburn/Politikills & Boaby - Omnipresence,Ghallanda

  3. #3
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    As the OP posted it, if done in order, he has 16 dex. (at least going off my char page...)
    So, you need 17 for ITWF and GTWF.
    Also, paladins are not famous for dps.

    Bows, are a rule, are bad. Very much so.
    They require a ton of feats, purely to acheive bad dps most of the time, and great dps 1/6th of the time (manyshot) *Note. Monkchers excluded from that rule.

    You also need 14 wisdom to cast level 4 spells (though that's doable with 8 base and a +6 item), not charisma, as blackdoguk stated.
    Personally, I'd avoid TWF on 28 point, esp as a paladin - you just need too much. That and THF tends to be better, esp with giants being the new endgame. (Though, that's irrelevant for you... At least for now)
    If you're insistent on TWF, just get 17 dex (one level up) then focus on str.
    And, unless you're hell-bent on it, I'd go human. Another feat would make a difference on a paladin.

  4. #4
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Hi, welcome to DDO!

    Honestly, if you want a TWF dwarf on a 28-pt build, rgrs are a much better first-time class than pallies. Rgrs are less starved for stat pts, in part because they don't care about CHA and don't need as much DEX for TWF; and they're less feat-starved than pallies because they get TWF & archery feats free. See my Tempest trapmonkey thread for one example.

    Junts's pally guide is a bit outdated, but it's still the first stop for every aspiring paladin.

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    Well yes im quite hellbent on the dwarf thing, stubborn as a dwarf i am ! My previous experience with DDO was level 9 mage at most i think and i've read a few forum guides and wiki guides, some said that TWF dps paladin did amazing DPS ! So if im serious about it i should just act like a functioning Dwarven Holy Tempest'o Smiting is like a Premium character then? How much are these stat tomes to make a 32 point build ?

    Also i thought there were favor farming methods like, make a new char, do all the quests in starting town, delete him and start over, and it gradually builds favor on your account?

    Sad to hear about the longbow ! Guess that means my friend is going rogue, how does a Mechanist/Light Reaper do damage wise compared to dual wielding ?

    ... OR i need to get my grubby hands on an account thats already been TR's a couple times its a server wide benefit right ? So all your new chars have 32 points ? or is that a favor thing ? either way. Plotting.
    Last edited by Khor; 07-22-2013 at 11:02 AM.

  6. #6
    Community Member blackdoguk's Avatar
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    The method you outline is an efficient way of grinding out Turbine Points, but we need total favour, and that is a unique score for one character, so we would need to actually play through the content. Running hard/elite you would probably hit this about level 14. I believe that if you buy a tome of lesser reincarnation, you can update your character to 32 point build, however if you were going to buy something from the store i would make it content, as with some shrewd purchases you will hit your favour targets anyway.

    Barbachop/Fizzburn/Politikills & Boaby - Omnipresence,Ghallanda

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdoguk View Post
    The method you outline is an efficient way of grinding out Turbine Points, but we need total favour, and that is a unique score for one character, so we would need to actually play through the content. Running hard/elite you would probably hit this about level 14. I believe that if you buy a tome of lesser reincarnation, you can update your character to 32 point build, however if you were going to buy something from the store i would make it content, as with some shrewd purchases you will hit your favour targets anyway.
    Do i have to be 20 to properly reincarnate? So i'd have enough favor for 32 point builds by 14? Hm.. So what if i went with a TWF dwarven FIGHTER instead, then later reincarnated as a 32 point paladin ? I'd already have a couple of weapons that way

  8. #8
    Community Member blackdoguk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khor View Post
    Do i have to be 20 to properly reincarnate? So i'd have enough favor for 32 point builds by 14? Hm.. So what if i went with a TWF dwarven FIGHTER instead, then later reincarnated as a 32 point paladin ? I'd already have a couple of weapons that way
    To true reincarnate (start again at level 1 with past lives and all your gear in the bank) you need to hit level 20 first. Alternatively if at any level you buy a greater reincarnation heart of wood from the store you could change up to five previous levels and your character would be upgraded to a 32 point build. I like the suggestion for ranger if you are set on twf, as you get the feats for free, but fighter is a good choice - i think its a good idea to try and get some loot/resources before attempting one of the more stat reliant classes. That said Pali is pretty survivable so isn't a bad choice at all.

    Im not guaranteeing that you would hit 1750 favour by 14, just saying that was about the point i hit veteran on this life. That's running most quests (f2p + p2p) in the game on elite just once though. If you were to farm particular quests (as a f2p player has to do after about level 10) it would take longer as you make less favour.

    Barbachop/Fizzburn/Politikills & Boaby - Omnipresence,Ghallanda

  9. #9
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    So are Bows really that bad? What about Arcane Archers ?

    Also for enhancements... im TWF fighter atm... Should i worry about anything like Sunder or Trip enhancements or just focus on weapon and armor ones? and HP
    Last edited by Khor; 07-22-2013 at 01:19 PM.

  10. #10
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    First, check the newbie guide on the wiki; you should find answers to a lot of your questions there.

    Favor: You earn Favor by completing quests; the longer the quest and the higher the difficulty you complete it at, the more Favor you get. Favor unlocks rewards on a per-character or per-server basis; you also earn TPs for every 100 Favor your character(s) earn, plus some first-time bonuses on each server. Ellis has a favor farming thread with more details.

    Archery: the main problem with playing an archer in DDO is the relatively slow rate of fire on bows. Bow Strength + Manyshot provide great burst DPS, but (A) it takes a lot of feats to add them to your build if you're not playing a rgr and (B) you still have to figure out what to do while MS is on cooldown. Pallies + bows don't mix well partly because of feat shortage and partly because some pally DPS abilities are melee-only (e.g., Smite Evil, Divine Sacrifice, Zeal).

  11. #11
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    I noticed that the level cap is 25 now ? IS that standard? The guides seem to stop at 20 so what does this change? is the Capstone ability at 25 now?

  12. #12
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khor View Post
    I noticed that the level cap is 25 now ? IS that standard? The guides seem to stop at 20 so what does this change? is the Capstone ability at 25 now?
    20 class levels (pick a class, say, paladin) 5 epic. (changing to 8 epic Soon(ish))
    Epic levels are pretty useless, to be fair. But no, capstone is based off class levels.

    I'm not sure why a guide would stop short of 25.
    I'd take a guess that they're old. Not sure though.

    In relation to Arcane archers, their dps is bad without manyshot. All bow damage is bad without manyshot or 10k stars. It's just the way it is. *Note. I'm basing this off having spent the last 24 hours playing without 10k stars, just to see if normal archery dps sucks.
    It sucks.


    Enhancements vary, based off gear, playstyle, build goals, etc.
    As a rule, toughness enhancements = good, fighter str = good, fighter haste = good, prestige (Stalwart Defender or Kensei) = great. Tactics enhancements are also good, if you have an item to boost the DC.

    Having said that, enhancement pass will be swingin' around soon...ish.

  13. #13
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    I'm back! Wondering if this could be tried with a cleric instead, not worry about Charisma. two-weapon battle cleric !

  14. #14
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Switching to cleric instead of pally just means you worry about WIS instead of CHA; actually, you still worry about both, since you need CHA for Divine Might to do you much good. Plus clerics tend to get pigeon-holed as healers by other players.

    Have a look at my Faithsworn Hunter; I didn't do a dwarf version, but it's a pretty straightforward conversion. Alternatively, consider dwarf rgr 12 / pal 6 / ftr 2: that gets you full TWF + ranged feats, 100% offhand procs from Tempest, most of the low-lvl pallies goodies like Divine Might & Grace; the ftr splash gets you 2 extra feats, Extra Action Boost, etc. And with the changes to dwarven weapon enhs, it's pretty easy to spec for axes, hammers, or picks, whichever takes your fancy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Switching to cleric instead of pally just means you worry about WIS instead of CHA; actually, you still worry about both, since you need CHA for Divine Might to do you much good. Plus clerics tend to get pigeon-holed as healers by other players.

    Have a look at my Faithsworn Hunter; I didn't do a dwarf version, but it's a pretty straightforward conversion. Alternatively, consider dwarf rgr 12 / pal 6 / ftr 2: that gets you full TWF + ranged feats, 100% offhand procs from Tempest, most of the low-lvl pallies goodies like Divine Might & Grace; the ftr splash gets you 2 extra feats, Extra Action Boost, etc. And with the changes to dwarven weapon enhs, it's pretty easy to spec for axes, hammers, or picks, whichever takes your fancy.
    What were the TWF rules in DDO? Does a ranger not require dex to get the free feats? Should i bother with the multishot feat or should i not try to tap in ranged dps ? Throwing axes could be a cool thing to mix in for me, im all about the Dwarves

  16. #16
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khor View Post
    What were the TWF rules in DDO? Does a ranger not require dex to get the free feats? Should i bother with the multishot feat or should i not try to tap in ranged dps ?
    Rangers get their class feats regardless of whether they meet the stat pre-reqs, which is one big advantage to rgrs if you want a TWF build but can't afford a DEX tome. In fact, now that Turbine has dropped the feat pre-reqs for Tempest, you could dump DEX entirely on a rgr 12+ build, although that hurts your AC, Reflex saves, and ranged to-hit.
    Throwing axes could be a cool thing to mix in for me, im all about the Dwarves
    Outside of monk-based shuriken / 10K Stars builds, I'm not convinced you can get decent throwing DPS in DDO. Still, I think Quick Draw is the only throwing-specific feat; it's pretty easy to add that to a rgr and see what happens.

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    Well the build said to put a point into Multishot, is that a pre-requisite for something later or is it just there to allow a little ranged dps ? Since i wont be human though i guess i wont have the point to throw away into that, or any ranged thing. Too bad about throwing though, got throwing hammers and axes and nowhere to use them

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    whoa! when did they re-do the skill system ? ?Its all cool trees now ! A lot look totally new. I started a TWF ranger dwarf, how good are the dwarven racials? they sure LOOK good, weapon mastery for my axes, armor mastery, spell resistance. Earthen Hands looks cool but i dont remember dragon marks ever being good. The 'throw your weight around' makes Throwing Hammers sound good all the sudden, using con instead of damage! so im thinking....

    Dwarf Cleric, shield + throwing hammer? ^_^ hm didnt look like the Cleric path had anything that would work with that

    Maybe a Dwarven Sorc, focus on the earth path? Acid damage and conjuration.. im all over the place> < cant choose.
    Last edited by Khor; 10-27-2013 at 12:34 AM.

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