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  1. #1
    Community Member blackdoguk's Avatar
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    Default Returning To Endgame: Moving Up

    First off thanks for your time in reading this. I've found these forums to be somewhat stagnant of late, and would really like to start up some discussion/dialogue on different players takes on the melee classes. Specifically barb/fighters.

    I'm a returning player, having been out of DDO since around the time Epic Chronoscope came out. Before I left I was a regular hate tank for my guild ( a very accomplished Ghallandanian end game raiding guild, with a lot of talented players.) My main at the time was a 2x Barb past life Blitz build, pretty fully specced back then, who I absolutely loved, and still do.I came back to the game proper around a month ago, took a look around at content I had no clue about and tr'd. I've really enjoyed my re working up to 20 as its allowed me to get back into the game and take stock of what players/guilds are still active on my server.

    It's been interesting to note the delineation of what a tank/dps is in the heroic tier. The majority of LFMs for good quests run by good players are BYOH (which is fine, this breeds quick runs, and most people are happy to bring a hireling if the situation merits.) Even looking at epic quests that I'm familiar with, I see a great deal of BYOH groups. Admittedly I am out of touch with what epic brings, and perhaps a good deal of survivability can be eeked out of those five levels, but the question I have to ask is: where is the role for the dedicated tank? Not strictly the turtle-up S&B defender, but (as in my case) the double hard fighter/barb with full incite gear, staring down the end boss while the party wails on his back? This was one of my favourite aspects of the game, and this particular role seems to have been diluted. Is this the case? I understand that diminishing numbers of players necessitates a change in play style, but does the sort of party role I described still exist? I noticed that both Nick Robischina's and Shade's (commendable) threads are now somewhat out of date. Where is the wealth of knowledge for us melee types of late?

    I'm sure a lot of you played similar roles to me a few years back. Have you TR'd into more sustainable builds or are you in the fortunate position of having guildies to watch your back? I'm happy to chug 200k of pots every life, thats not an issue im begrudging, I'm simply observing the lack of an observable tanking role within groups ive taken part in. I'd say that fighters/barbs are the least played classes that I've encountered. I'd welcome your thoughts on this.

    My second question is rather specific to me, and again I'd appreciate any suggestions. As a newly 20 dps focussed character, what should I be running for gear/xp? I headed out to Eveningstar and enjoyed those first few Spinner quests. I'm a FR fan, so adventuring with Elminster is pretty cool, but I've literally just arrived. Is there something I should be focussing on between 20-23, 24- 25?

    Im in the fortunate position that my main, Barbachop, has a good bit of gear. I dug the epic Claw set out of my tr cache, and with one scroll to obtain can muster the 3 piece Abishai set. Are these still viable for a melee? Where should I be focussing my efforts gear wise? Seems the Black Dragon Helm comes up a lot, so I guess I have to start there.

    Lastly, I'm looking at epic destinies, while fury of the wild looks good, I think legendary dreadnought would perhaps make me a bit more capable of managing my red bar? What would be best to pick up first?

    Thanks for your time if you made it this far, any input whatsoever is welcome, lets start livening up this part of the forum, even if Turbine has made that problematic.
    Last edited by blackdoguk; 07-22-2013 at 01:14 AM.

    Barbachop/Fizzburn/Politikills & Boaby - Omnipresence,Ghallanda

  2. #2
    Community Member blackdoguk's Avatar
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    Thought I'd post my current gear setup (circa 2011)to let you see what I should be shooting for.

    Head: Epic Helm Of Frost.
    Kneck: Silver Flame Trinket
    Trinket: Bloodstone
    Eyes: +45 hp hitpoint item
    Cloak:Epic Envenomed Cloak
    Bracers: Epic Claw
    Gloves: Epic Claw
    Boots: Epic Boots Of Corrosion
    Belt: Knosts Frenzied Berserker
    Armour: Dragontouched with +10% healing amp, + 15% incite & destruction
    Ring 1: Encrusted w Insightful Str 1 + 2
    Ring 2: Oremis W Inisigtful Con 1 + 2


    Im currently wielding lit 2/min 2 khopeshes on an 12 ftr 6 barb 2 rogue life, with a fighter and 2 barb past lives.
    Last edited by blackdoguk; 07-22-2013 at 01:55 AM.

    Barbachop/Fizzburn/Politikills & Boaby - Omnipresence,Ghallanda

  3. #3
    Community Member ycheese123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdoguk View Post
    This was one of my favourite aspects of the game, and this particular role seems to have been diluted. Is this the case?
    Yes. With epic destinies pretty much anyone can tank in some way. Just tonight for example: in an epic hard Fall of Truth a cleric tanked the stormreaver using primal avatar epic moment. Also, ED's really make all the old content a cake walk on anything except EE, and there isn't much tanking "needed" in the game anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackdoguk View Post
    I understand that diminishing numbers of players necessitates a change in play style, but does the sort of party role I described still exist? I noticed that both Nick Robischina's and Shade's (commendable) threads are now somewhat out of date. Where is the wealth of knowledge for us melee types of late?
    Everyone is playing monkchers and juggernauts :|

    Quote Originally Posted by blackdoguk View Post
    I'd say that fighters/barbs are the least played classes that I've encountered. I'd welcome your thoughts on this.
    Druid and Bard are probably the ones I see the least of.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackdoguk View Post
    My second question is rather specific to me, and again I'd appreciate any suggestions. As a newly 20 dps focused character, what should I be running for gear/xp? I headed out to Eveningstar and enjoyed those first few Spinner quests. I'm a FR fan, so adventuring with Elminster is pretty cool, but I've literally just arrived. Is there something I should be focusing on between 20-23, 24-25?
    Check out the epic GH gear: http://ddowiki.com/page/Update_17_named_items. The black dragon set is something you should get, as it offers unique effects that you can't get anywhere else. Nether Grasps are nice (from U16 quest End of the Road). There are loot-gen bracers called Greater Convalescent of Superior Parrying, which provide 30% heal amp and +4insight bonus to saves. Grab weapons from CitW and a planar focus of prowess for a set bonus to replace the claw set with later on; it gives the same 4dmg but also gives 15prr.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackdoguk View Post
    Im in the fortunate position that my main, Barbachop, has a good bit of gear. I dug the epic Claw set out of my tr cache, and with one scroll to obtain can muster the 3 piece Abishai set. Are these still viable for a melee?
    I think so. Claw set is still good, although replaceable if you will use a CitW weapon. Abishai set is good as well imo. Gives some ''permanent'' elemental resists, and you get a good bit of augment slots, which are great.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackdoguk View Post
    Lastly, I'm looking at epic destinies, while fury of the wild looks good, I think legendary dreadnought would perhaps make me a bit more capable of managing my red bar? What would be best to pick up first?
    Hard to say. They both have nice things. Do you plan to play in groups and/or raid a lot? Or are you going to solo farm gear and short man quests? I like Fury in full parties running below EE, and in raid groups. Fury will get you more HP, scream is a nice party buff, and adrenaline crits are sweet. The epic moment in FotW is good for boss fights, it's a short duration. Kind of a burst damage thing. In epic elite, LD is the way to go if you are meleeing. And if you are soloing on epic norm/hard it will turn [almost] any quest into a joke (some quests it's impossible to use because of doors) . The epic moment, master's blitz, is easy to charge before the quest and it's amazing. The epic moment builds up when you get worthy kills and stays on as long as you keep killing (or go thru a door -_-). During boss fights it's ok, but if you take to long to kill them it just wears off and you gotta go w/o it. They each provide other nice things, but I'm gonna leave it at that. I stated in Fury b/c I'm 18bbn, but If I had to pick one I guess I'd choose LD. LD is really great when you are able to twist in a few things from FotW. Twist in Sense weakness and primal scream, and...either brace for impact, cocoon, or unearthly reactions and you will tear it up. Grim precision is nice too, but to get it and sense weakness twisted into LD you gotta get max fate points and get the store tome.
    Last edited by ycheese123; 07-22-2013 at 05:50 AM.
    Orien
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  4. #4
    Community Member blackdoguk's Avatar
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    Thanks for your input sir, you've given me a lot to chew on. All the best.

    Barbachop/Fizzburn/Politikills & Boaby - Omnipresence,Ghallanda

  5. #5
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    This is pretty cool thread if you have time and want to "catch up".
    Your gear is nice "time travel" but wouldn't last 10 seconds against 2 or 3 EE mobs.
    Days of Shintao/Crusty/Mari/Esos are over, there is higher emphasis on defense/saves and some degree of sufficiency due to population shrinking, epic destinies, scaling, and less divines willing or being able to build for EE.
    Ghallanda

  6. #6
    Community Member blackdoguk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    This is pretty cool thread if you have time and want to "catch up".
    Your gear is nice "time travel" but wouldn't last 10 seconds against 2 or 3 EE mobs.
    Days of Shintao/Crusty/Mari/Esos are over, there is higher emphasis on defense/saves and some degree of sufficiency due to population shrinking, epic destinies, scaling, and less divines willing or being able to build for EE.
    Thanks for this, I figured that to be the case. Will go for some survivability at epic levels. Thanks for the thread. Would sentinel be a better destiny to pick up first compared to legendary dread/fury? I'm looking to try and work my way up as quick as I can and don't mind laying damage to one side in favour of staying alive.
    Last edited by blackdoguk; 07-22-2013 at 03:27 PM.

    Barbachop/Fizzburn/Politikills & Boaby - Omnipresence,Ghallanda

  7. #7
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Sentinel is not a dps destiny. It provides Brace for impact twist and some tanks might grab it for Horoth ( but it's overkill really ) or Truthful One or Lailat.
    If you want to get to cap quickly and preferrably get some destiny xp before Shadowfell, Dreadnought first and Blitz on EH to cap.
    But EH is a total joke and you will get dissapointed ( or even bored, despite being new ) probably, so maybe Fury first and EE streak to cap if you can get some help.
    While it's much more fun ( especially being new content for you ) it might be difficult alone and getting pugs for that is tricky ( on a melee ).
    "As quick as you can" will be Dread, Blitz+hire and you can streak EH to cap in few days but again it might spoil the experience if you just returned. It's not "epic" at all.

    There's really not balance, EH is too easy and EE might be too hard or even frustrating for not geared toon without few twists and some meta-knowledge or tricks.
    Last edited by Encair; 07-22-2013 at 04:02 PM.
    Ghallanda

  8. #8
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    . . . and less divines willing or being able to build for EE.
    You mean less divines want to bother playing a game where DC casting a futile and you're relegated to being nothing but a healbot?

    Yup.

  9. #9
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Your gear is still mostly fine. I would advice against outright grinding for anything. There is an expansion pack coming very shortly along with a level cap increase, most of what you could obtain right now will probably be outdated when the pack arrives.

    Look at the new enhancements and decide if you'd like to TR again and change your build before the expansion arrives. If you would, TR get back up to 25, if not, start getting epic destiny experience (avoid getting repeat penalties on rusted blades, and impossible demands before you cap) Epic destinies will make a bigger improvement to your build than upgrading your current gear.

  10. #10
    Community Member blackdoguk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    Your gear is still mostly fine. I would advice against outright grinding for anything. There is an expansion pack coming very shortly along with a level cap increase, most of what you could obtain right now will probably be outdated when the pack arrives.

    Look at the new enhancements and decide if you'd like to TR again and change your build before the expansion arrives. If you would, TR get back up to 25, if not, start getting epic destiny experience (avoid getting repeat penalties on rusted blades, and impossible demands before you cap) Epic destinies will make a bigger improvement to your build than upgrading your current gear.
    Thanks for this, well thought out advice. Going to put some time in and see if i can squeeze something good out of the blitz and if not perhaps swap my 6 barb levels for ranger. Most likely I'll push to 25 and try out the new stuff. Have just got an awesome new guild who can help me sure up any gaps.

    Barbachop/Fizzburn/Politikills & Boaby - Omnipresence,Ghallanda

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