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  1. #1
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Default Sorc's and INT based spellcraft skill maybe not that bad?

    Okay rolling this around in my head for my Bladeforged 2 Pali 18 Sorc air savant... Putting some points in INT is really not that bad a deal, sure you wont get the same boost to SP as Wiz's lets get that out of the way and take it for granted in this discussion. However it opens up a lot of other synergies that help compensate.

    For starters I dropped CON from 20 to 18, lets be real 23hps is not that gig a deal, when geared right I suspect I can drop from 18 down to 16 without pain. So Maxing CHA and nothing else you're left with 6 points to put in INT.

    Obviously this gives a great number of skill points you wouldn't have, also obviously you're going to nom a +4 INT tome because that improves spell power via spellcraft skill mod. So we're talking about lots of skill points: cross class UMD is a given. cross class repair now that it's going to give you reconstruction spell power is also a given that takes some serious skill points (4 per level) spellcraft is hopefully AT LEAST a class skill for Sorc's even if it doesn't use they casting stat for it's modifier. So we're at 5 skill points per level minimum needed add about 10 or 50 cross class jump points and 1 per level for concentration... 1 per level for Diplo or even Intim maybe to take advantage of the high CHA, we're at 7 per level plus a couple for jump.

    You're going to gear for INT, 14 base +4 tome +8 gear +3 insight +1 exc or 30 INT which is a +15 mod this is raising your repair spell power and of course spellcraft... but there may be more synergy:

    Insightful reflexes seems like a juicy pick here, your reflex is your lowest save by a good bit, even with Divine Grace giving you great saves it might be worthwhile. (hard to tell without my own Pali/Sorc to test in higher level content) going from -2 (6 DEX) to +15 is a 17 point swing... for one feat. Even more crazy if you splash Monk for evasion.

    If you look at the spellcraft proxy nerf of Sorc's as an oportunity* I think you'll end up with a more well rounded character. I'm not even planing toughness on mine... Though once geared I tend to drop toughness on many toons anyway as long as they stay above 600-700hps

    *(honestly they need to throw Sorc's a bone somewhere in the EP regardless of spellcraft change, maybe they should let Sorc's (and FvS) to get twice the crit % from the newly nerfed lore affix like they do from spell point items? Or perhaps make the Sorc crit enhancement line 3% per tier with 4 tiers)
    Last edited by Ironclans_evil_twin; 07-19-2013 at 04:02 PM.

  2. #2
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    My 18/2 sorc/pally shiradi was doing fine with about 650 HP so you're most likely right. If you're fast enought a player, the wings are all you need to ensure a free completion to anyone that join your EE group (GH that is). Good dps and infinite survivability through kiting is all you need. Combine that with a 15% or so dodge rating if possible, displacement, incorporeal, as much PRR as you can (Bulwark Shield with -% to arcane failure slotted) and then you can take 3 not avoided hits before dying. That's a couple swings at you and more than enought time to react.

    If you're an active player like me and will be the one getting the aggro first almost every time, you're contribution can achieve such a high level of efficiency that you could almost solo any EE (except tor's dragons let's be real) even with such low HP if you have patience on your side.

    I think it's a good trade to lower CON for more DPS unless the new quests bring something that you can't kite and dps at the same time.

    And I didn't even mention the sick saves that let you care even less about having high HP!

    Edit: With 2 paladin levels, you won't need insightful reflex since your save can be as high as 50-60 without any effort. All of em.
    Last edited by Azarddoze; 07-19-2013 at 04:29 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Really, if you break it down to raw math, all you're talking about is 2 points of INT instead of CON. The extra 2 points of INT means 1 extra skillpoint per level up to spend on Spellcraft, assuming you weren't planning on spending any points on that originally. So those 2 points of INT are, essentially, 21 bonus spellpower (1 INT stat bonus + 20 points spent on levelups).

    If you are planning on spending your skillpoints on Spellcraft, even with INT as a dump stat, then you're still only talking about maybe 15 spellpower difference between an int-dumped Sorc and an int-maxed Wiz...(~10 INT vs ~40 INT)

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    You're going to gear for INT, 14 base +4 tome +8 gear +3 insight +1 exc or 30 INT which is a +15 mod this is raising your repair spell power and of course spellcraft... but there may be more synergy:

    Insightful reflexes seems like a juicy pick here, your reflex is your lowest save by a good bit, even with Divine Grace giving you great saves it might be worthwhile. (hard to tell without my own Pali/Sorc to test in higher level content) going from -2 (6 DEX) to +15 is a 17 point swing... for one feat. Even more crazy if you splash Monk for evasion.
    Also - 30 INT is only a +10 mod (every two points above 10, not 0), and you're probably going to "nom" a +4 dex tome at some point and probably find room for a +6 dex diamond, so even with a starting dex of 6 that's modded 16=+3 stat, so its only a 7 point swing with Insightful Reflexes (3 to 10)

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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Really, if you break it down to raw math, all you're talking about is 2 points of INT instead of CON. The extra 2 points of INT means 1 extra skillpoint per level up to spend on Spellcraft
    Are you trolling or simply tiered? He's talking about CON 20 to 18 and those last two stat points cost 6 points. The first 6 points of INT cost 1 each... it's 3 skill points per level.

    About the other: 7 points of reflex save can make a huge boost if you're neither Pally splashed and already saving on a 2 most of the time nor neglecting saves to the point that 7 more don't matter either.

  6. #6
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    How about 1-2 wizard splash for SLA and some spell power? Would that work?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagantor View Post
    Are you trolling or simply tiered? He's talking about CON 20 to 18 and those last two stat points cost 6 points. The first 6 points of INT cost 1 each... it's 3 skill points per level.
    Erm OK, that just makes my point in support of the OP even better - that all you really need is to drop even just two points of CON in favor of INT, and then you enjoy the +21 spellpower I talked about, and then get two extra skill points per level to play with on top of that, probably in Repair and something else. Any further dump of CON for INT is really marginal, comparably, in its effectiveness.

  8. #8
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Also - 30 INT is only a +10 mod (every two points above 10, not 0), and you're probably going to "nom" a +4 dex tome at some point and probably find room for a +6 dex diamond, so even with a starting dex of 6 that's modded 16=+3 stat, so its only a 7 point swing with Insightful Reflexes (3 to 10)
    Ah yeah I always do that when I am throwing D&D numbers around it's like a form of D&D dyslexia.

    You're right it much less of a spread, and probably not needed with saves being so high... I think it might be nice as a leveling feat and swap it out later when gear and tomes and CHA level ups and ED's boost your Sorc's CHA into the stratosphere.

    edit added:
    On the other hand consider a 2 Monk 18 sorc... then Insightful reflex starts looking kick ass. You're not getting Divien Grace's CHA bonus to all saves.

    Honestly either way I am no longer discouraged about Spellcraft being an INT based skill, I will take Spellcraft on EVERY character that needs casting power and can afford to drop 23-ish hit points. and I will enjoy the skill points and possible other synergies. UMD is much easier to cross class when you've got 11 or 14 starting INT plus a tome (3 build points out of con or 6 build points: 20 con down to 19 or 18, 18 con down to 17 or 16 on a fleshy). Repair skill being INT boosted is just gravey that's a total of +46 spell power to your reconstruction Spell or SLA (if bladeforged).

    As far as eating a +4 Dex Tome on a Sorc... no effin' way. a cheap +2 sure. Maybe if I had one character and only one but I have 14 alts and they all end up with +4 tomes in their main stat so +4 tomes X6 X14 alts. that's 84 +4 tomes
    Last edited by Ironclans_evil_twin; 07-21-2013 at 09:17 PM.

  9. #9
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindCakes View Post
    How about 1-2 wizard splash for SLA and some spell power? Would that work?
    Lets just say there are going to be some seriously odd multiclassing choices after the pass... Two of them are builds that might have been previously held up as the prime example of "gimp noob builds" I am speaking of deep dual casting multiclasses. Arcane/Arcane or Divine/Divine After the pass they might even become flavor of the month builds crazy I know.

  10. #10
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Erm OK, that just makes my point in support of the OP even better - that all you really need is to drop even just two points of CON in favor of INT, and then you enjoy the +21 spellpower I talked about, and then get two extra skill points per level to play with on top of that, probably in Repair and something else. Any further dump of CON for INT is really marginal, comparably, in its effectiveness.
    More D&D numbers oddities for the thread: it's not 21 Spellpower it's 23, I don't begrudge anyone making this slip up as obviously I did basically the same thing by counting 30 INT as a +15 INT mod lol.

    23, up to 4 at level 1, and then 1 over 19 more levels.

    There's also the automatic +1 to skills from Epic levels 5 soon to be 8

    On a side note: +6 INT skills on greensteel is looking sweet,

    Just counting this up:
    30 INT with basic gear and tome and 1 for 1 investment in INT at build is +10 mod
    23 skill ups assuming they don't screw Sorc's and make spellcraft cross class = 33
    +15 skill item (soon more) = 48
    +6 INT skills GS item = 54
    +5 Epic levels = 59
    +4 GH = 63
    +4 various realistic buffs (ship) = 67
    +3 Skill tome = 70
    +2 Luck

    72 spell power with nothing exotic.

  11. #11
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    For starters I dropped CON from 20 to 18, lets be real 23hps is not that gig a deal, when geared right I suspect I can drop from 18 down to 16 without pain. So Maxing CHA and nothing else you're left with 6 points to put in INT.
    LOL... You are now a Turbine fanboi apologist.

    Or as we like to call ourselves... reasonable and rational.

    Yes, yes you can live with a 16 CON instead of a 18 CON, and end up with more spell-power than before... A small nerf in exchange for a small buff... it's called a trade-off and is usually part of good game design.

    The DOOM crowd will never admit this though.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    LOL... You are now a Turbine fanboi apologist.

    Or as we like to call ourselves... reasonable and rational.
    Amazeballs timing Thrudh, Hendrik just accused me of being a hater in another thread, I often wonder what the world looks like when you can only see black or white?

    Indeed being reasonable is a hard knock forum life

    BTW please join me in spelling it "fanboy" as I just pictured you as a giggly teenage girl, as I do everyone who spells it "boi" and that was more than a little disconcerting.

  13. #13
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Doh! Time to run FoT and get the Tablecloth now... I don't think I have room to slot INT right now
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

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