Page 2 of 17 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 335
  1. #21
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    work....
    Posts
    30,354

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    How do other MMOs manage to keep their loading times short? I've never had a problem loading an MMO (in recent history) like I have with DDO.
    I haven't a clue. The only other MMOs I play on occasion right now is LOTRO. And it has an equally long load issue.

    Beyond that a few years back I did CO, and before it was killed Phantasy Star Universe.
    PSU just iddn't have a whole lot of textures to load like DDO and LOTRO.
    CO.... I forget, but there wasn't the intricacy of patterns like DDO/LOTRO have. Load times weren't bad.

  2. #22
    Founder
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,044

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    I haven't a clue. The only other MMOs I play on occasion right now is LOTRO. And it has an equally long load issue.

    Beyond that a few years back I did CO, and before it was killed Phantasy Star Universe.
    PSU just iddn't have a whole lot of textures to load like DDO and LOTRO.
    CO.... I forget, but there wasn't the intricacy of patterns like DDO/LOTRO have. Load times weren't bad.
    As my "second MMO" (DDO is my primary), I rotate between WoW, LotRO, GW2, Neverwinter and recently Rift. Even LotRO doesn't have as long a load time as DDO although it is longer than the others. And other than WoW they are all graphically-intense games.

  3. #23
    Community Member Wanesa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Prague
    Posts
    573

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Lets just use the below as a representation of files, where upon that line is one .dat file.
    AAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCDDEEEEEEEEEWW WWPPPPPPPPPPPP

    What Wansa is saying is that if we reorder the internal files, it would be better because of how much data is held per block of memory. (I don't know if the below is utterly accurate because I'm not defining a how large a block is. But you get the idea. Also the memory block size can be different depending on systems and size of harddrives. It isn't universal which throws another "ugh" into a definitive optimized order.)

    AAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCPPPPPPPPPPPPE EEEEEEEEWWWWDD
    Problem is, that those pieces - I will call them "subfiles" - they are actually files, because one sigle dat file is actually virtual filesystem - so these subfiles are smaller than smallest cacheable block. You are right when they are larger, for example when surfaces and 3d models, sounds etc are loaded, reordering will not have impact to the performance. But this is another situation. Look again at scenario that I did write above.

    Load A,B,C,D. with those offsets, it takes 40ms to load (only those four "subfiles") and total 16KB will be transferred, because every request is read as single 4KB block and stored in the cache. If you reorder pieces to have A, followed by B followed C and D, that scenario now takes 10ms and only 4KB will be transferred. Four time faster!

    That is not all. Windows Caching is pretty smart. It can detect, that file is read sequentially and is able perform speculative reading ahead. During the very first request the Windows transfer a single page - 4KB. When whole page is served, windows will probably load two pages instead one, because they expect sequential read. This can significantly reduce HDD's access time and on other side, it can benefit from burst reading - feature offered by every HDD - transfer rates during burst reading can reach hundreds megabits per second. This cannot be used when data are accessed randomly

    HDDs are optimized for the streaming. Streaming is the key. Reordering "subfiles" - pieces of data - can help to benefit from streaming. DDOPreload also benefits from streaming. It loads whole 270MB file into the memory in a few seconds. DDOClient can also make this, but Turbine is probably not seeing this as priority.
    Last edited by Wanesa; 07-19-2013 at 06:34 PM.

    Thelanis: Shewind the Airbender (Sorc20/Epic5 -> Bard20/Epic8 -> Rog20/Epic8/Epic2 -> Harper_FvS20/Epic4 -> Art20/Epic8/Epic8 -> Rng10), Azaxe (Rog18/Wiz2 -> Sorc20/Epic8/Epic8)

  4. #24
    Community Member Wanesa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Prague
    Posts
    573

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ycheese123 View Post
    I've been using the previous version, it's worked 100% of the time and still does. Is this new one better in some way? And thank you so much by the way!
    There are several changes
    1. It is presented as community tool - until today, many ppl did not trust this application because they worry about viruses. Now, application is distributed with source codes, so you don't need to trust binary and compile own version - if you have that skill. License has been added.
    2. GUI - it has some better GUI and pretty progress bar. No more console
    3. Errors are better reported. Console did not show anything when something went wrong.
    4. Windows cache is occasionally refreshed and kept during TurbineLauncher is shown on the screen. DDOPreloader stops keeping cache right after ddoclient starts. This is still subject of investigation and testing.
    5. DDOPreload first does preload and then starts TurbineLauncher. This makes things slightly faster.
    6. Memory cleaner - first phase - during this phase, all memory is forced to swap out to ensure, that windows will not have motivation to wipe out the cached files - this phase did occasionally crash on some PCs. This should be fixed now.
    Last edited by Wanesa; 07-19-2013 at 06:59 PM.

    Thelanis: Shewind the Airbender (Sorc20/Epic5 -> Bard20/Epic8 -> Rog20/Epic8/Epic2 -> Harper_FvS20/Epic4 -> Art20/Epic8/Epic8 -> Rng10), Azaxe (Rog18/Wiz2 -> Sorc20/Epic8/Epic8)

  5. #25
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    641

    Default

    downloaded and tried, works awesome, first time log in for the day down to <30 seconds from 3-5 minutes, might be just luck but also didn't have issue with first seconds right after loading, without the preloader i always had 10-30 seconds when character was "stuck" (can't move, can't select, shortcut keys don't work), this was especially bad when logging in crafting hall, now loaded game first time for the day and intentionally logged a toon that i knew was in crafting hall - no problem, 2 seconds later opened bank (with tr cache). so, thanks!

  6. #26
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    work....
    Posts
    30,354

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanesa View Post
    Problem is, that those pieces - I will call them "subfiles" - they are actually files, because one sigle dat file is actually virtual filesystem - so these subfiles are smaller than smallest cacheable block.
    They are which is one way that Turbine is trying to save on space that it uses because the OS will treat it as one file for the purpose of the block storage. (I'm sure you get that, but I know others won't.)

    As for reading it into memory. *shrugs* you can also just copy the .dat files from one directory to another directory, delete said copy and DDO loads faster as well. Is it as fast as what you do? Don't know, but the difference was noticeable on my slow as molasses 5k rpm HDD.

    In your simplistic example, sure 4x faster. But you yourself said reality is much faster than the calculated times. part of the reason for this is the fact windows does cache a lot more than we figure it would. So most of those blocks were already cached reducing the theoretical gains. Now add into the fact that because it is running with an OS, the HD will not be soley accessing one file for the duration of seeking. No, it will access as many as requested of it through the time slices of various program operations. So consistent sequential reads just won't happen.

    Lastly, and this is the nail in the coffin to show why they won't reorder the files. History. Turbine is pulling a bit of an M$. It wants people to go to SSD. That IS one of their tech support lines. The writing is on the wall of what will (in this case, won't) actually happen.

  7. #27
    Community Member Wanesa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Prague
    Posts
    573

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Lastly, and this is the nail in the coffin to show why they won't reorder the files. History. Turbine is pulling a bit of an M$. It wants people to go to SSD. That IS one of their tech support lines. The writing is on the wall of what will (in this case, won't) actually happen.
    That is definitely not my problem . They are paid for their business

    Thelanis: Shewind the Airbender (Sorc20/Epic5 -> Bard20/Epic8 -> Rog20/Epic8/Epic2 -> Harper_FvS20/Epic4 -> Art20/Epic8/Epic8 -> Rng10), Azaxe (Rog18/Wiz2 -> Sorc20/Epic8/Epic8)

  8. #28
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    8,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    As my "second MMO" (DDO is my primary), I rotate between WoW, LotRO, GW2, Neverwinter and recently Rift. Even LotRO doesn't have as long a load time as DDO although it is longer than the others. And other than WoW they are all graphically-intense games.
    Yeah that kind of confuses me as well I have no trouble logging into other mmo's even newer ones that have higher minimum system requirements than DDO but where as I can get into those games in serconds DDO is often several minutes. I guess its just a *special* game? It must be good for so many people to go through all that trouble just to get into the game.

    Anyway OP thank you, I will try it, and fingers crossed I hope it also helps me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post

    Lastly, and this is the nail in the coffin to show why they won't reorder the files. History. Turbine is pulling a bit of an M$. It wants people to go to SSD. That IS one of their tech support lines. The writing is on the wall of what will (in this case, won't) actually happen.
    lol so there is no hope.......its either pay them..........find a fix yourself...........just deal with it........or throw in the towel and go and do something else.
    Last edited by NaturalHazard; 07-19-2013 at 07:55 PM.

  9. #29

    Default

    Just tried this for the first time and wow, it's a revelation! Thanks so much, this is an incredible improvement. I'd like to do some benchmarks of my load times with and without this utility, because it's like night and day. Kudos to you, sir.

  10. #30
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    work....
    Posts
    30,354

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    I guess its just a *special* game?

    *snip*

    lol so there is no hope.......its either pay them..........find a fix yourself...........just deal with it........or throw in the towel and go and do something else.
    I won't argue with the qualification of "special". DDO was a great game for years if you wanted to do a heat burn in/out of graphic cards. You'd have thought some of the newer games could push it worse? Nope, DDO ruled that for a LONG time.

    And yeap, it pretty much is find a fix yourself or find a work around. Pay? What do you think they put that money you "pay" into? But I will give the DDO developers some slack here. I highly doubt this is anything they would be allowed to touch. It reaks more of an engine based issue which is a different group of developers at Turbine. And they seldom ever show their faces about in the forums. Took me years to get an official distinction made on that.

  11. #31
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    work....
    Posts
    30,354

    Default

    Wansa, different question for you in the access reading.

    OS. 32 vs 64 bit. How much of a difference is that really going to make with the read times given that the hardware interfacing really hasn't changed. I haven't thought on this one and the last time I was doing any sort of deep education on the cache and reads was with 32 bit as a bases.

  12. #32
    Founder
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,044

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Lastly, and this is the nail in the coffin to show why they won't reorder the files. History. Turbine is pulling a bit of an M$. It wants people to go to SSD.
    As well they might - everyone should be going SSD. I have a bit of a $ crunch but will be purchasing a SSD ASAP to install my MMOs on.

  13. #33

    Default

    Does this work if you are using readyboost on your Windows box? I have 10gigs of readyboost.

  14. #34

    Default

    Okay, here's my time trials. In both tests I did a full computer restart, leaving the computer alone for a minute or two after booting to let all the startup stuff completely finish.

    Without this utility I get the red latency on first login 100% of the time, plus when the second login fully enters the world, after about 5 seconds I get a screen lock for 10 seconds or so. This also happens 100% of the time, so I count it as part of my loading process. Once that screen freeze finishes, only then can I start playing the game.

    During both time trials I kept a stopwatch going and marked down the time when I finished doing each action.

    Without Preloader (403 seconds)
    0:00 Run DDO
    0:31 Enter password, Choose world
    1:24 Select character, Enter game
    5:26 Game loads, Red latency, Close client
    5:36 Run DDO
    5:55 Enter password, Choose world
    6:09 Select character, Enter game
    6:24 Game loads
    6:30 Screen freeze starts
    6:43 Game active; can begin playing

    With Preloader (123 seconds)
    0:00 Run DDO
    0:10 Preload finishes
    0:31 Enter password, Choose world
    1:11 Select character, Enter game
    2:03 Game active; can begin playing

    This is a massive boost to the "quality of life" of playing DDO on a slow machine like mine. In addition to just generally making the first load after (re)boot way faster, the preloader also removes the irritating screen freeze once I'm finally in the game. The preload version lets me start moving as soon as the world draws. And then as an added bonus it also removes the delay you get the first time you enter the crafting hall.

    Two thumbs up!

  15. #35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EnziteBob View Post
    Does this work if you are using readyboost on your Windows box? I have 10gigs of readyboost.
    ReadyBoost is a subsystem of SuperFetch. Provided you've not disabled SuperFetch or changed the default options, most of DDO's file are probably being managed already. As to those files being stored in the ReadyBoost cache, that's difficult if not impossible to determine. This Tech Republic article explains how to set up Perfmon in order to determine what, if anything, ReadyBoost is doing to improve (or hinder) performance.
    The newest computer can merely compound, at speed, the oldest problem in the relations between human beings, and in the end the communicator will be confronted with the old problem, of what to say and how to say it. - Edward R. Murrow (1964)

  16. #36

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sebastianosmith View Post
    ReadyBoost is a subsystem of SuperFetch. Provided you've not disabled SuperFetch or changed the default options, most of DDO's file are probably being managed already. As to those files being stored in the ReadyBoost cache, that's difficult if not impossible to determine. This Tech Republic article explains how to set up Perfmon in order to determine what, if anything, ReadyBoost is doing to improve (or hinder) performance.
    I know when I first set up my readyboost it cut my load times in half when I load into the game. Did not do much for game play, but the HDD didn't have to work as hard to load the program.

  17. #37
    Community Member Ragnarnessaja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    228

    Default

    Oh my god this thing is incredible. I thought it was just me! I've recently returned to the game and never had problems like I had been, but this solves it all!

    Thank you so much!

  18. #38
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    2,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    During both time trials I kept a stopwatch going and marked down the time when I finished doing each action.

    Without Preloader (403 seconds)
    0:00 Run DDO
    0:31 Enter password, Choose world
    1:24 Select character, Enter game
    5:26 Game loads, Red latency, Close client
    5:36 Run DDO
    5:55 Enter password, Choose world
    6:09 Select character, Enter game
    6:24 Game loads
    6:30 Screen freeze starts
    6:43 Game active; can begin playing

    With Preloader (123 seconds)
    0:00 Run DDO
    0:10 Preload finishes
    0:31 Enter password, Choose world
    1:11 Select character, Enter game
    2:03 Game active; can begin playing
    With Solid State Drive no Preloader (49 seconds)
    0:00 Run launcher
    0:13 Enter password, Choose World
    0:39 Character selection screen
    0:49 Game active; can begin playing

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820211602 - ADATA SP900 128GB SSD

    Note that I choose my SSD because it was cheap. I haven't bothered to compare it to other SSDs, but I don't hold much faith in it being particularly fast.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 07-20-2013 at 01:58 PM.
    Ryiah | Raeyah | Reikara
    Toy Soldiers

  19. #39
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    work....
    Posts
    30,354

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Okay, here's my time trials. In both tests I did a full computer restart, leaving the computer alone for a minute or two after booting to let all the startup stuff completely finish.
    1. What is your OS? (include bit type.)
    2. How much RAM?
    3. What is the rotation speed of your hard drive?
    4. What is the connection interface of your hard drive?
    54. Is the game installed on the same partition as the OS or not?
    6. What is your graphics card?
    7. How much RAM on your graphics card?
    8. What is your CPU?

    I'm sorry, but with out all of these points of data, you've essentially just stated second hand say so that is not worth as much as it could be.

  20. #40
    Community Member Wanesa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Prague
    Posts
    573

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    With Solid State Drive no Preloader (49 seconds)
    0:00 Run launcher
    0:13 Enter password, Choose World
    0:39 Character selection screen
    0:49 Game active; can begin playing

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820211602 - ADATA SP900 128GB SSD

    Note that I choose my SSD because it was cheap. I haven't bothered to compare it to other SSDs, but I don't hold much faith in it being particularly fast.
    Free solution is still cheaper . But if you want to give up ddo's year subscription for new SSD Turbine is doing the great business

    Thelanis: Shewind the Airbender (Sorc20/Epic5 -> Bard20/Epic8 -> Rog20/Epic8/Epic2 -> Harper_FvS20/Epic4 -> Art20/Epic8/Epic8 -> Rng10), Azaxe (Rog18/Wiz2 -> Sorc20/Epic8/Epic8)

Page 2 of 17 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload