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  1. #1
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    Feb 2010

    Default Assassin style Sorcerer idea (in progress, looking for suggestions)

    Hi, I am currently planning on TR'ing my 12 rog mech / 8 Art battle engineer and, after spending just about all of my Dungeons and Dragons life as a ranged, stealthy, DPS based trap monkey, I want to rehabilitate myself into the non assassin-esque classes of DDO. That being said, my tendencies towards sneaking around and dealing massive damage to unaware enemies is not one I can quite give up cold turkey, and for that reason I am working on a Sorcerer build that would focus on stealth, single target damage, and possibly insta-kill spells, along with some degree of utility (self-healing and UMD for resurrecting teammates)

    My current plan is to go War-forged Water Savant, picking up Empower, Maximize, and Quicken by level 6, exploiting the fact that the spell like ability of Niacs Cold ray (in addition to the other spell like abilities in Water Savant II and III) gains the bonuses of meta magic feats, but not the extra spell point costs *NEED A FACT CHECK HERE*. As for stealth, I plan on, of course, taking the Invisibility spell at level 4 (I don't plan on this build being much effective until level 6 anyway) and using repair spells for self healing (with the meta magic feats active at all times they will be costly in terms of spell points, but certainly effective in the middle of combat) Later feat choices would include (greater) spell focus: evocation and of course Heighten Spell (low DC's as it is am I right?) Early game will be fairly spell point starved, but I did a few practice runs with a lvl 4 human sorcerer I cooked up and I can manage until I get those spell like abilities from the PrE (Especially if I use teammates for trash mobs and my burst dps for killing bosses before the barbarian can get one swing on him)

    With the base point bonus of a first time TR, my base stats will be

    STR 8 + (best item available at given level) will get a +2 tome if I see one cheap on the AH/get one in a chest (after all str is used in any class, if only for carrying capacity)

    DEX 8 +2 tome, irrelevant to this build

    CON 20 +2 tome + (best item available at given level) High HP is one of the focuses of this build, hopefully incorporating False life items and DR items for tank-ability.

    INT 8 +2 tome, irrelevant to this build

    WIS 8 If will saves are an issue, I would rather get an item that boosts wisdom and will saves and deal with mediocre saves than put more than 2 build points into it.

    CHA 16 (max) + (best item available at given level) possibly a +2 tome if I need the DC and SP

    I plan on mostly dumping dex, int, and wis, due to the fact that I plan on using high powered spells to take out casters first (the benefit of using invisibility for the element of surprise) In groups, obviously it would be rude for me to run ahead with haste and invisibility combo, and when not soloing will take advantage of the double range of spells such as niacs to instead snipe high profile targets before they get the chance to land a single spell on anyone.

    Lastly, and the most important thing I want to emphasize, is the ability to quickly take down bosses. Spells such as niacs should suffice in massive single target damage, and late game I get access to Icy Prison, allowing for extremely high single target damage AND Crowd Control.

    Tying up loose ends, for my secondary spell choices I plan on using force spells, in particular the missile spells along with disintegrate, due to the fact that missile spells are fairly reliable, and disintegrate, while ineffective against those with death-block, is a spell I just can't pass up.

    As you can see, this is far from a finished build. I have reservations about dumping quite a few of my stats, such as wis. Furthermore I am uncertain if I should put points in str simply for quarterstaff melee so that I don't waste precious spell points while taking care of trash. The question remains if and when I take the Power Attack feat, a hard decision due to the fact that Sorcerers are a feat starved class, while at the same time having great synergy with a 2hf war forged dealing with trash mobs without wasting spell points. In addition, I am hoping an experienced caster can give me advice as to whether or not FoD and PK will help with my assassin/sniper play style, or lack the DC (considering the relatively low cha in this build compared to say a Drow) to reliably hit and merely be a distraction from my main focus of high powered ice spells and reliable force spells.

    I plan on TR'ing only after I am 100% sure that the build will work. It can be "Gimpy" (what else do you call my previous, multi-classed repeater dps build / trap monkey build) But I want it to be capable of doing what I want; self healing, stealth tactics, long range dps (ray spell range) and be capable of killing trash in 1 shot (obviously some give and take due to saves and bad luck on die rolls) and deal with bosses quickly (Niacs biting cold alternated with Niacs Cold Ray should work wonderfully in that end). VERY IMPORTANT I want to verify that the spell like abilities granted by the Savant lines (ie. Frost Lance) benefit from meta magic feats and do not cost extra spell points to use with meta magics active. Otherwise the build is useless unless I find a way to weave in more advanced stealth tactics for avoiding unnecessary battles and stronger melee capabilities for handling unavoidable trash fights.

    On a final note before leaving you to critique/revise/make fun of my build outline, I must apologize, this is halfway between a build submission and a build request, and to make things worse, this is not only my first post on the Forums, but it is 1:13 where I live at the time of writing this up, and am incredibly tired.

  2. #2
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    Mar 2012
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    stealth has no relation with invis, just try to walk while invis near a mob, look him/her turn back and ups! u're not stealthy

    stealth means at least move silently(hide also for mobs that have see invisibility), and both are dex based

    also hope u noticed that frost lance is conjuration, save negates damage and has a really low max damage(u won't be able to kill much mobs with that sla)

    for low lvls get fire, instead of going like a sniper/assassin, go like a bomber man (also scorch ray is far stronger than niac)

    also ur previous build had a big problem: 2nd pre of mechanic sucks, and being trapmonkey as an int based ranged arti is the only thing you can do

    rest of stuff is normal thing being wf sorc, heals with repair, max con and cha, the trouble is you CAN'T be stealthy with that

    if wanna go ice, wait at higher lvls when you get polar ray, then prolly u'll be able to 1 shot mobs at ray distance

    the trouble with fod and pk is the SR check first, then you won't get metas to increase their dc, and your cha base is 2 points less than normal so you dc will be:

    10+9 lvl spell + 12 (16 cha base+3 enhancements+4 lvl ups + 6 item + 2 ship + 2 tome+2 yugopot)) + 2 from item = 33

    keep in mind i don't count 5 lvls ups because at lvl 20 you won't be able to land fod or pk with that heroic DC XD so i wouldn't bother with instakills, they're fort based and your spell list isn't that great, however i would grab real cc's, will is the weak point of melees and may work if you kite around the discoball

    your dc on evo will be a bit higher, +2 from feats, + 5 from ED (2 from draconic 3 from magister, both are tier 2) and some cha increase on items, like using the cleric's set of eveningstar (wizard's one sucks, at least cleric gives you 7 cha and 2 insightful cha XDDD also spells at 10% discount like the wizard set) you'll sit on 42 on reflex, that prolly will work on epic hard, just keep in mind that your damage output won't be great using sla's
    psykopeta is finally baconpletionist because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS: I post only in the latest thread shown in main page, in the weird case u want something from me, feel free to send pm

  3. #3
    Community Member
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    Feb 2010

    Default Thanks for the reply

    As for my current build, it's actually not that bad, while the dps is far lower than casters, I out dps melee on a regular basis, excluding monks. You are right about the flaw in using invisibility only, is there a viable way to boost move silently on a sorcerer? I know that lots of players speed run through quests using just haste and invisibility, and while that form of play isn't rogue level stealth, it could get me out of unnecessary fights and put me in position to take out important target while teamates deal with aggro. Here is a video of what I'm talking about (he uses this strategy in a number of quests, you will notice that if you look at his other guides With fire savant I'm a bit unsure, I like niacs, and AOE damage is a bit risky because you are more likely to attract a ton of aggro over a caster that does quick single target damage before the target can get to you. I am probably not going to use instant kill spells, except maybe taking power word: kill for the heck of it. I know this build is a bit gimpy, but I'm going for a playstyle a bit different than most players go for. Also I might get spell focus conjuration instead since it's more annoying when niacs gets saved against than frost lance. The big thing I'm looking for here is making sure the SLA's actually do benefit from meta magics while not costing the extra spell points, as long as that works I'm fine, seeing as I'm going to TR again for the 36 point build. (For my last TR I am of course going to be a pure rogue assassin with shadow dancer) Also would Icy prison benefit from spell power? because if so it could do a ton of damage in addition to its awesome cc effect.

  4. #4
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    Apr 2013


    Quote Originally Posted by babycatrules View Post
    The big thing I'm looking for here is making sure the SLA's actually do benefit from meta magics while not costing the extra spell points
    Yes, that is correct. However, relying on your SLAs for the bulk of your damage as a Sorcerer will result in some very slow damage, even with Max+Emp+Heighten. The caster level caps on them are just so low.

    (For my last TR I am of course going to be a pure rogue assassin with shadow dancer)
    In that case, why do a Sorcerer life when your final build gets no benefit from Evocation DCs? Wouldn't something like Paladin or Artificer be much more beneficial?

  5. #5
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    Feb 2010


    The reason why is because I care more about trying new things and having fun with a gimpy build effective in an otherwise unheard of niche than power level through multiple lives to have a maxed out final life with useful PL feats. Not dumping on those who do, I think people who get those crazy maxed out builds are badass, but that kind of playing really isn't for me, especially because at the end of summer I will have few opportunities to play seriously (starting college and busy with a few other obligations during the first couple months of the school year)

    I remember I once quested with this guy named Gimp on Ghallanda, he has probably TR'ed many times since I quested with him, but at the time of me questing with him he was a Warforged 2 rogue/ 10 wizard. He blew through the quests with a Great Axe on quests that were higher level than us (as in a level 13 quest on elite) and had trap/lock skills comparable to my own, greater dps, self healing, UMD for healing me/resing me, and decent buff and burst DPS spells. The reason why I am mentioning this is because he is irrefutable evidence to me, that with proper player skill and smart choices, any niche role can be filled with an otherwise gimped character, and still be useful, provided it is executed properly. And it is from there that I came to the decision of making a Sorcerer build that focuses on sniping out trash from far away, sneaking by some encounters to save spell points, self healing in between fights, and burst DPS'ing bosses to shreds. I know it can be done, and am thankful for the constructive criticism I have so far received, in particular the fact that I cannot rely on SLA's. Right now I am thinking of lowering con to 18 (still a high score) and putting the 6 extra points into str, with the strategy in mind being that i snipe out casters and ranged enemies then handle the melee trash with either a quarterstaff or a Great Axe/ Great Sword while using masters touch to grant proficiency for mediocre melee dps (with trash mobs mediocre isn't bad if you can self heal, and since the tradeoff is for quickly taking out casters and getting high dps on bosses)

    from the feedback I have so far I decided to make these changes

    str 12 +2 tome + best item available
    dex 8 +2 tome (unrelated)
    con 18 +2 tome + best item available
    wis 8 (since the only use for wis is the saves, I will go for will save boost items instead of boosting the wisdom score itself, I usually won't need that high saves anyway with this strategy, especially with a warforged due to immunities)
    int 8 +2 tome (unrelated but might use the extra skill points for move silently)
    cha 16 +2 tome + best item available

    Hopefully heighten will allow my niacs cold ray SLA to get decent DC's, though for tougher lategame bosses I will of course be less stingy spell point wise and use higher level spells such as polar ray instead of my SLA's as needed. I will take spell focus conjuration instead of evocation, and use equipment to get spell focus evocation instead. Also while most of my element of surprise is on the idea of combining movement speed buffs with invisibility and blur for the effect of being tricky to locate and hard to hit, for true stealthiness I plan on getting items that boost move silently to combine with my invisibility for when I have to do things such as not triggering an alarm.

    A new idea I am considering is getting Improved repair II so that I can get Racial summoning enhancements for use as a distraction when soloing (invisibility with haste is not exactly the best stealth tactic, but if the enemy is already targeting something else, that can be the distraction you need to get by un-noticed, sort of a sleight of hand sort of deal) at level 12 I get basically 4 uses of this tactic, and the higher level ones mean a longer distraction due to higher hp.

    From level 1-18 I get 7 feats. I am definitely taking empower, maximize, and heighten for my first 3, and getting spell focus conjuration by level 12. For the remaining 3 feats I am considering either taking power attack, cleave, and great cleave to help mop up trash, or taking toughness, improved damage reduction, and mithral body (by that point I will have the enhancements to negate its arcane spell failure chance) for better tankiness, or possibly get quicken, greater spell focus conjuration, and spell penetration to do faster damage to bosses with a higher success rate (quicken takes my concentration score out of the equation, greater spell focus conjuration can help with DC's, and spell penetration should be enough for most spell resistance)

    I am still uncertain on a few things, and I'm not TRing for at least a couple days, so any more criticism/advice for this is greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by babycatrules; 07-18-2013 at 04:45 PM.

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