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  1. #1
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    Default Can anyone help me with this ANNOYING problem?!??!

    It's probably my computer itself and I have no idea what it is, but every time I initially start up my computer or if my comp crashes and i log into ddo i can get on my toon but then i get latency EVERY. single. time. This only happens when i initially start it up or if my comp crashes during a laggy raid. This only started happening to me when they did the epic gh update but NEVER happened before it drives me crazy! It particularly sucks when i dc during a raid or a quest and computer crashes then i try to come back on only to get latency then ill have to reboot the launcher. Ive re-downloaded the game and it still no results.Can anyone tell me why this is happening??

  2. #2
    Hero Marcus-Hawkeye's Avatar
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    Need more information about what computer you have. Run dxdiag.exe and save all the information and post it. It'll answer a lot of questions.

  3. #3
    Community Member nikos1313's Avatar
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    its not your PC i think. many ppl complaining about this thing in forums. i have that also, in fact all my guildies have that problem. atm there is not a fix available i think.
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  4. #4
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    DDO is bad about leaving files in your computer memory (what people call "memory leak"). When you restart your computer the memory is wiped clean. That's why it only takes so long after you restart your computer.

    Recently they updated the launcher and I thought it had fixed the problem - after the launcher update (18.3), the game launched and loaded really fast for me. Then someone in the forums pointed out that was probably actually because of the server restart after the patch. Sure enough I am now back to taking a really long time to load.

    I used to get the character load latency and have to restart but I set an exception in my security program so it doesn't scan the DDO files upon start. (Files that are already on the computer.) However I have read many people stating that this is a bad idea so I won't actually recommend it.

  5. #5
    Community Member sdrocky's Avatar
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    Its pretty common since update 18 or 18.1

    I get this issue every time i log. have to do it twice. luckily for me i have a stable connection so once im in the second time I'm usually right for the rest of my session.

  6. #6
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    DDO is bad about leaving files in your computer memory (what people call "memory leak"). When you restart your computer the memory is wiped clean. That's why it only takes so long after you restart your computer.
    What you are describing where DDO takes longer to start up after restarting the computer is not due to "memory leaks". Memory leaks are caused by the program running and neglecting to free memory. Once a program closes, the OS will free any memory that was allocated to it. What you are describing is actually the prefetch mechanism found in most OSes. Essentially what the OS is doing is attempting to improve file access speed by storing commonly used files into any available system memory.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 07-18-2013 at 12:16 AM.
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  7. #7
    Community Member Meetch1972's Avatar
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    It may be that up on initially starting up DDO you're dealing with anti-virus software scanning all the files as the game loads. I see an awful lot of hard drive activity on my slow drive at times, and if I start DDO while it's grinding away I almost always have to restart the client. Something to do with taking so long to login that DDO times out the session perhaps - I get no data from the server at that point... perhaps around the time of the GH revamp they changed something to make more files pre-load or something to that effect.

    You could try starting up with AV disabled to check, but that isn't a good idea. If you do, be sure to re-enable AV immediately afterward, scan the entire system and be prepared to go through disinfecting the system if you have to. A little paranoia is good for your PC...

    Or if you can afford it, get an SSD and make sure both your AV and DDO live on that. Reduced hard drive wait times may help.

    I recommend an SSD to cover your OS (for faster booting) AV (for faster scanning) and DDO (for faster loading) - everything else can live on your old, slow, clunky spinning rust.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    What you are describing where DDO takes longer to start up after restarting the computer is not due to "memory leaks". Memory leaks are caused by the program running and neglecting to free memory. Once a program closes, the OS will free any memory that was allocated to it. What you are describing is actually the prefetch mechanism found in most OSes. Essentially what the OS is doing is attempting to improve file access speed by storing commonly used files into any available system memory.
    Ok, "neglecting to free memory" and "preloading" seem a lot alike. My point was that a lot of people accidentally foil their attempt to load more quickly because the common "fix" for hanging / crashing is to restart your computer. In the case of DDO, you do NOT want to restart your computer after hanging / crashing on initial launch. You want those files to remain in your memory to facilitate your next attempt to login. The exception is if you have already been in-game and switching between characters multiple times. This is where the "memory leak" will show up and cause lag / crashing so you will want to restart your computer.

  9. #9
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    This is where the "memory leak" will show up and cause lag / crashing so you will want to restart your computer.
    You will almost never have to restart your computer. Programs cannot simply allocate a random chunk at will but rather have to request memory from the OS using APIs exposed by the OS. When a program requests memory, the OS scans an index journal for available space and if space is available will give the program a pointer to that memory. It will then mark in the journal that the memory has been allocated to that program.

    Memory leaks occur when memory is requested by the program but not released once it is no longer necessary. Memory is released in two different ways. First, by the program simply calling the OS APIs and specifying that it is finished with the memory. Second, by the OS itself when the program exits. Modern desktop OSes will forcibly clear the memory when the program ceases operation.

    The only situation where a restart may be necessary is if the memory leak somehow managed to hard crash the OS. The majority of the time this will not be necessary as modern desktop OSes have safeguards designed to prevent this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_leak
    Last edited by Ryiah; 07-18-2013 at 03:41 AM.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Uidolon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mushmush View Post
    It's probably my computer itself and I have no idea what it is, but every time I initially start up my computer or if my comp crashes and i log into ddo i can get on my toon but then i get latency EVERY. single. time. This only happens when i initially start it up or if my comp crashes during a laggy raid. This only started happening to me when they did the epic gh update but NEVER happened before it drives me crazy! It particularly sucks when i dc during a raid or a quest and computer crashes then i try to come back on only to get latency then ill have to reboot the launcher. Ive re-downloaded the game and it still no results.Can anyone tell me why this is happening??
    as far as i can see there might be more then 1 issue at work here but your not giving much information for us to work with.
    try to think about it calmly its like a man running into the police station "ive been robbed" its not helpful in locating the man in question running into the police station shouting "2street west a redhaired man about 40years old robbed me using a knife and threats he toke my valet and phone". the more information you give out the bigger chance of you getting good advice.

  11. #11
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    How often do you defrag your hard drive?
    There is no free lunch.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    You will almost never have to restart your computer. Programs cannot simply allocate a random chunk at will but rather have to request memory from the OS using APIs exposed by the OS. When a program requests memory, the OS scans an index journal for available space and if space is available will give the program a pointer to that memory. It will then mark in the journal that the memory has been allocated to that program.

    Memory leaks occur when memory is requested by the program but not released once it is no longer necessary. Memory is released in two different ways. First, by the program simply calling the OS APIs and specifying that it is finished with the memory. Second, by the OS itself when the program exits. Modern desktop OSes will forcibly clear the memory when the program ceases operation.

    The only situation where a restart may be necessary is if the memory leak somehow managed to hard crash the OS. The majority of the time this will not be necessary as modern desktop OSes have safeguards designed to prevent this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_leak
    So, if the memory is automatically cleared when the program quits, why does it take less time for me to login the next time I start the program?

    Also, while I clearly don't know as much about these issues as you, I do know what happens to my computer many times when I quit DDO: DDO does not want to actually quit. You may say that modern OS's will release the memory when the program exits but what if the program refuses to exit? Quite often upon asking DDO to quit I get a black screen that will not resolve. I end up using Task Manager to force quit the program. But when that happens I usually also restart my computer. And I'm not using some old OS - I have Windows 7 64-bit and yes I defrag my hard drive.

  13. #13
    The Hatchery Nibor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mushmush View Post
    It's probably my computer itself and I have no idea what it is, but every time I initially start up my computer or if my comp crashes and i log into ddo i can get on my toon but then i get latency EVERY. single. time. This only happens when i initially start it up or if my comp crashes during a laggy raid. This only started happening to me when they did the epic gh update but NEVER happened before it drives me crazy! It particularly sucks when i dc during a raid or a quest and computer crashes then i try to come back on only to get latency then ill have to reboot the launcher. Ive re-downloaded the game and it still no results.Can anyone tell me why this is happening??
    So, I can at least tell you what I think is going on.

    When DDO starts up, it reads a huge amount of data files from the disks. This can take a LONG time. For whatever reason, the launcher will actually start up the game and get you to the character select menu while that's still being read. Then when you select a character, the game shows you a loading window, all the while your hard drive is likely grinding like crazy.

    Here seems to be the bug: For whatever reason, if DDO doesn't finish getting all that data loaded in after a set time, the loading screen finishes anyway and it shows you to your game screen. It does some initial communication with the server, but then stops, and will not restart that connection, and you never get properly logged in. This, IMHO, is a bug. DDO shouldn't time out and move forward, it should keep you on your loading screen while it loads in all that ****.

    Anyway, once that happens, you're stuck. The client will eventually time out, give you a "connection lost to server" and then you can try again. Which, as you've found, works.

    Why does the second login work? Technical time.
    When you read files from the disk, Windows (or whatever OS) puts the data into memory so the program can use it. When the program is done with it, however, Windows doesn't just free the memory - it keeps the data in memory in the File Cache (or whatever the OS likes to call it). This memory can be freed by Windows at any time, so it is in no hurry to throw the data away. This is a standard optimization in just about every OS. Note this is NOT a "memory leak", which is a problem where memory not freed by mistake, either by a program or the OS itself, and to clear it you need to either exit the program or reboot the OS. Keeping data in File Cache is intentional so that if you access that data again, it doesn't have to go to the disk again. If, on the other hand, you do something else and the OS needs the memory for your new task, it can free up this File Cache memory right away, since it's just a copy of what's on the disk. So, when you start up the second time, all that disk access is already done, and the files are in memory for you, and everything runs smoothly.

    What can you do about it?
    Not a lot.
    You can improve the disk read time - defraging your hard drive is a crude attempt at this, and likely won't matter much, but you can try it. Moving to an SSD is an option, and you should see this problem go away completely with that.
    You can keep the data in memory - don't reboot, don't use your computer for much else. This isn't really viable for most people; it's a computer, not a "DDO playing device". Still, if you really want, you can always try to launch DDO as the last thing you do before getting up from your computer each time. Then that "first login" will have already happened and you'll be ready to do the second login. Again, it's kind of a crummy workaround.

    Personally, I have ended up just living with it on my laptop, and my desktop generally doesn't have this issue. If you're willing to spend money to upgrade your system to avoid this issue, I'd recommend an SSD, which will have uses other than DDO as well and overall should greatly improve your DDO experience.

  14. #14
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    I was recently also plagued by the double log-in problem on my first login of the day. It would take an extra long time to load, then when I got to my character the server status would go red and I'd have to kill the DDO client.

    I saw a number of other posts here describing the same problem, and a lot of folks including myself have found that the "DDO Preloader" has solved the problem. Since I've been using the preloader, it's been one login every time...

    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/46772187/ddopreload.zip
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  15. #15
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nibor View Post
    So, I can at least tell you what I think is going on.

    When DDO starts up, it reads a huge amount of data files from the disks. This can take a LONG time. For whatever reason, the launcher will actually start up the game and get you to the character select menu while that's still being read. Then when you select a character, the game shows you a loading window, all the while your hard drive is likely grinding like crazy.

    Here seems to be the bug: For whatever reason, if DDO doesn't finish getting all that data loaded in after a set time, the loading screen finishes anyway and it shows you to your game screen. It does some initial communication with the server, but then stops, and will not restart that connection, and you never get properly logged in. This, IMHO, is a bug. DDO shouldn't time out and move forward, it should keep you on your loading screen while it loads in all that ****.

    Anyway, once that happens, you're stuck. The client will eventually time out, give you a "connection lost to server" and then you can try again. Which, as you've found, works.

    Why does the second login work? Technical time.
    When you read files from the disk, Windows (or whatever OS) puts the data into memory so the program can use it. When the program is done with it, however, Windows doesn't just free the memory - it keeps the data in memory in the File Cache (or whatever the OS likes to call it). This memory can be freed by Windows at any time, so it is in no hurry to throw the data away. This is a standard optimization in just about every OS. Note this is NOT a "memory leak", which is a problem where memory not freed by mistake, either by a program or the OS itself, and to clear it you need to either exit the program or reboot the OS. Keeping data in File Cache is intentional so that if you access that data again, it doesn't have to go to the disk again. If, on the other hand, you do something else and the OS needs the memory for your new task, it can free up this File Cache memory right away, since it's just a copy of what's on the disk. So, when you start up the second time, all that disk access is already done, and the files are in memory for you, and everything runs smoothly.

    What can you do about it?
    Not a lot.
    You can improve the disk read time - defraging your hard drive is a crude attempt at this, and likely won't matter much, but you can try it. Moving to an SSD is an option, and you should see this problem go away completely with that.
    You can keep the data in memory - don't reboot, don't use your computer for much else. This isn't really viable for most people; it's a computer, not a "DDO playing device". Still, if you really want, you can always try to launch DDO as the last thing you do before getting up from your computer each time. Then that "first login" will have already happened and you'll be ready to do the second login. Again, it's kind of a crummy workaround.

    Personally, I have ended up just living with it on my laptop, and my desktop generally doesn't have this issue. If you're willing to spend money to upgrade your system to avoid this issue, I'd recommend an SSD, which will have uses other than DDO as well and overall should greatly improve your DDO experience.

    This, out of all of them, sounds the most probable.

    I believe – don’t know for a fact, mind you – that DDO uses a managed framework. You have to do some pretty funky stuff (and I do a lot of that when I code, for various reasons) to get a memory leak. Believe you me, I know how to make that happen. But, on average, .NET is pretty good at managing memory.

    Connection activity has timeouts, however. If the server is waiting on a response from the client, and the client isn’t ready to respond, the server will only wait so long before closing that pipe.

    Depending on what you call a “crash,” depends on what’s actually going on. If DDO just drops to the launcher or the character screen, it may be that some assemblies (.dll files) are still loading. The .NET framework generally loads assemblies when they are required, and not at startup. So when you first start connecting, those assemblies are being loaded, and that’s where a time lag comes in. Once loaded, however, they remain loaded until the application terminates.

    If your application just self-terminates, then the file-cache-ing explanation is what’s going on.

    Consequently, if you have a single-core (or maybe even dual-core) processor, this type of lag will be pronounced as there are no other cores to offload some of the work.

    Still, I do a lot of data manipulation in my line of work. If this is the case, they REALLY need to go back to the drawing board with how they load stuff in the app.

  16. #16
    Community Member whereispowderedsilve's Avatar
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    Default My friend was having similar problem the preloader worked!

    My friend was having similar problem the preloader worked! Thanks so much guys!!111111111 :P! ! WOOHOO! HOORAY! :P! ! Cheers!

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  17. #17
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    So, if the memory is automatically cleared when the program quits, why does it take less time for me to login the next time I start the program?
    Because the allocated RAM is what is cleared, not the cache controlled by the OS. Because the OS already knows the files (they have been loaded into cache) the access is faster because it doesn't have to do a full look up.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cache_%28computing%29

    This is a part of any standard OS these days and not special to DDO.

  18. #18
    Community Member Full_Bleed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalMystik View Post
    I saw a number of other posts here describing the same problem, and a lot of folks including myself have found that the "DDO Preloader" has solved the problem. Since I've been using the preloader, it's been one login every time...
    Where did this pre-loader come from? I have a friend who's having this issue, but I'm hesitant to have her install something that hasn't been properly vetted.

  19. #19
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    Nibor is very accurate. I have watched the resource monitor while starting DDO, and it loads lots of data from several files. I have waited for the disk reads to end before selecting a character and entering the world, and another massive session of data loading takes place at that time as well. Still got the DC on first login.
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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Full_Bleed View Post
    Where did this pre-loader come from? I have a friend who's having this issue, but I'm hesitant to have her install something that hasn't been properly vetted.
    To allay any fears, the preloader is perfectly safe to use.

    The application in question was written by forum user Wanesa. The OP can be found here. I have perused the source code and all it does is invoke CreateFileMapping to open certain data and executable files in shared, r/w mode which forces the OS cache them. It then chains to TurbineLauncher.exe essentially replacing ddolauncher.

    The compiled version is apparently only touching dndclient.exe and client_gamelogic.dat. Several others are commented out. Why caching those two files provides such a decrease in load time is a bit of a mystery. The only explanation I can conceive would be that one or both of them are accessed repeatedly for small chunks of data during the load process in a very random fashion which causes hard disks to thrash wildly.

    EDIT:

    Wanesa just posted the official thread about the preloader. Please refer to this one instead of the link provided above.
    Last edited by sebastianosmith; 07-19-2013 at 07:34 AM.
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