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  1. #1
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    Default Post Enhancment Change Shiradi Sorc. Does Everything Build

    *So title is wrong this build is for post enhancement change, not Update 18. I was confused.

    1 Arti or Rogue/ 13 FVS/ 6 Sorc

    All enhancments into FVS trees. Tier 4 Angel, Tier 5 Protector

    Feats:
    All toughness + EmpH

    Race: Funzies

    Stats and level ups: All Con, rest of points in Int

    Spells: Heal, Magic Missile, Chain Missiles, Blade Barrier

    Destiny: Shiradi

    Twists: Renewal* or Energy Burst, Boulder Toss, Cocoon !Thx SealedInSong!

    Skills: Traps/UMD/Conc/Spellcraft/Balance

    It heals, it has health out of the Kazoo, it does mana efficient damage regardless of mob elemental immunities, it has no save CC, it traps, it has UMD.

    It has a higher universal spell power than a Sorc., force crit since Sorcs no longer have force crit, as well as universal crit from FVS line and FVS tankyness, and higher AC, since FVS simply has better enhancements.

    Permanent blur, toughness, and knockdown when damaged with spells are just a bonus. FVS force caster level enhancements will allow you to cast MM as a lvl 9 spell at tier 4 Angel of Vengeance, and still max out the Protector tree.

    So not only does it ignore elemental immunities and resistances in every raid end game, it is incredibly tanky and party boosting and friendly to boot. Tanky/DPS/UMD/Traps/Heals/CC/Buff

    I'm going to be able to take a sorc based spell caster, power it by FVS enhancments, put it into a ranger epic destiny, and twist in supporting mage (or sorc), druid, and barbarian ED abilities, and add a single level of rogue or Arti, because, hey why not...I have to sink all my skill points somewhere.

    If one really wanted, one could drop sorc to lvl 5-3 and use arcane augmentation items, like Twilight. This would allow evasion and higher level FVS spells, but you would lose chain missiles.

    Now come on, someone, anyone tell me that the new enhancment paths don't support variety.

    Edit: Apparently, if you use Shadar-Kai Assasin as an iconic character, you lose the ability to reincarnate, and gain racial wings + invisibility.

    So this would be a pretty good Shadar-Kai build.

    Edit: Added renewal as alternative twist. Healing EE on my druid made me realize that it would be necessary. At 5 mana it can "fill in" between MM spells, which will normally crit.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 07-16-2013 at 04:04 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member SealedInSong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Twists: Evocation Augmentation (Magister) or Energy Burst, Boulder Toss, Cocoon
    What's the point of evocation augmentation if you have not invested in wisdom or charisma or an DC-based spells?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    It heals, it has health out of the Kazoo, it does mana efficient damage regardless of mob elemental immunities, it has no save CC, it traps, it has UMD.
    Other than Divine Punishment, how do you deal with monsters with Mantle/missile immunity?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    It has a higher universal spell power than a Sorc., force crit since Sorcs no longer have force crit, as well as universal crit from FVS line and FVS tankyness, and higher AC, since FVS simply has better enhancements.
    When you speak of tanking, other than high hp and blur, what damage mitigation does the build have? PRR/AC/Dodge?...
    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Now come on, someone, anyone tell me that the new enhancement paths don't support variety.
    Off the top of my head, many of the new enhancements are incredibly pigeon-holing (i.e. acrobats with staves, assassins with kukris/daggers, stalwarts forced to use shields, list goes on...) but that doesn't mean there aren't new builds to be made, of course. It's just that they do seem to have some needless restrictions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Edit: Apparently, if you use Shandar Kai Assasin as an iconic character, you lose the ability to reincarnate, and gain racial wings + invisibility.
    The race is called "Shadar-kai," not "Shandar Kai." Do you have any documentation for them getting wings/abundant step? When I saw the Ethereal Jaunt capability, the description seems far closer to the Unearthly Reactions/Ubiquity tumbling phase mechanic of epic destinies, not to FvS wings/Air Savant wind dance/Monk abundant step.

    I like some of the thought that's gone into the build and I always appreciate novelty, but I think quite a bit of testing would be in order to fully justify a build like this. Also, from the looks of it, the protection domain looks to be the most scattered and least powerful of all the alpha preview trees.

    I think you need a lot more substantial investigation of your claims that this build can tank, as you only mention taking as many toughness feats as possible without showing any real damage mitigation.
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  3. #3
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    What's the point of evocation augmentation if you have not invested in wisdom or charisma or an DC-based spells?

    Oops...I meant Spell School Familiarity, the -15% cool down one!

    Second pass: The -10 save dc would allow you to do a decent amount of additional damage with Blade Barrier and may actually be decent to good depending on group composition.

    Other than Divine Punishment, how do you deal with monsters with Mantle/missile immunity?

    Shiradi procs, Boulder toss, Wild Shots, and Blade Barrier. Blade Barrier and Wild Shots are slashing, so will damage force immune targets. Mantle/missile immunity mobs are 3-500x rarer than elemental immune/resist mobs, and even if the mob is force immune Shiradi procs can still kill it. A boulder toss/wild shots combo on a nerve venom helpless target is nights out. For a lich or mummy with mantle, one could always use "Heal" or any alignment based nuke.

    When you speak of tanking, other than high hp and blur, what damage mitigation does the build have? PRR/AC/Dodge?...

    This is where the build is special. Tier 5 FVS protection tree...lets this Shiradi Sorc. preemptively self-rez! The protection tree is full of defense, as are FVS spells, Blade Barrier kiting, and UMD use.

    The other thing that is important to a tanky character is sustained self healing. Angel of Vengeance gets wand and scroll mastery with no prereqs, as well as the following:

    Just Reward: When you critically hit with a Fire, Force, Light, or Physical damage spell, you gain 3/6/10 Sacred temporary spell points.

    When spamming missiles and kiting groups through BB, this is going to save a metric ton of mana which can be used for survival. Another part of being tanky is making sure others don't die so you don't get zerged, which this build also does both with Shiradi procs and with FVS spells like non-scroll heal or mass cures, enhancements asides.

    Off the top of my head, many of the new enhancements are incredibly pigeon-holing (i.e. acrobats with staves, assassins with kukris/daggers, stalwarts forced to use shields, list goes on...) but that doesn't mean there aren't new builds to be made, of course. It's just that they do seem to have some needless restrictions.

    I don't see it that way. You can power any spell caster using any other spell casters enhancements, and any melee using any other melee's enhancements. You see "dagger rogue tree" I see "enhancement tree for use on anyone wanting to further specialize in daggers." For example, I just glance at the tree and see 3 rogue 17 druid Elf AA with dagger melee backup using dex for to-hit and damage for both bows and daggers, with level 9 spells, sneak attack, and trapfinding. Or a rogue/monk with kukris with stacked dex.

    You see "FVS dps tree". I see "caster dps tree" which would provide on spell crit/hit effects, universal spell power, four types of spell crit crit., and unlimited mana for multihit low level spells.

    You don't even need a class tree to specialize in a lot of weapons due to all the new racial abilities.

    The race is called "Shadar-kai," not "Shandar Kai." Do you have any documentation for them getting wings/abundant step? When I saw the Ethereal Jaunt capability, the description seems far closer to the Unearthly Reactions/Ubiquity tumbling phase mechanic of epic destinies, not to FvS wings/Air Savant wind dance/Monk abundant step.

    I'm just hopeful!

    I like some of the thought that's gone into the build and I always appreciate novelty, but I think quite a bit of testing would be in order to fully justify a build like this. Also, from the looks of it, the protection domain looks to be the most scattered and least powerful of all the alpha preview trees.


    My opinion of the Protection domain differs greatly. I highly value the different defenses and utility it has, especially in a "do everything build". Again you see "most scattered and least powerful tree," I see "perfect tree to pick and choose what you want for a do everything caster build."
    Last edited by Tilomere; 06-01-2013 at 07:15 AM.

  4. #4
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Sorry this build will not work well period. Its flat out worse than the standard build in every way. You dont eve n max out magic missile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    Sorry this build will not work well period. Its flat out worse than the standard build in every way. You dont even max out magic missile.
    The OP build is pretty messed up, but not for the reasons you state. With the new FVS enhancements...

    Magic missile tops out level 10.

    +3 arcane levels from FVS enhancements
    +3 arcane levels from chronoscope set
    +2 arcane levels from Radiance

    A level 2 arcane could max out magic missile.

    The OP also did a poor job of explaining why the new FVS enhancements work very well with shiradi force spam. If you would like to see what can be done with a 13 FVS starting point, here is the Divine Reactor

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    The OP build is pretty messed up, but not for the reasons you state. With the new FVS enhancements...

    Magic missile tops out level 10.

    The OP also did a poor job of explaining why the new FVS enhancements work very well with shiradi force spam. If you would like to see what can be done with a 13 FVS starting point, here is the Divine Reactor

    I thought MM tops out at 9? 1 missile at lvl 1 + 1 per 2 lvls = 5 at lvl 9. That's why I only have lvl 6 arcane and tossed in trapping/umd. I also went with sorc instead of mage because I have a sorc. I also play later at night so I sometimes need to fill more roles.

    Yes I don't explain how the build works nearly as well as you did a month ago, but I didn't see your post! Honest! I was planning on waiting to see what actually goes live, but maybe you could help out with feedback Ancient if you see something critical missing! I'll optimize on live when I know what I'm working with.

    U18 13 FvS / 6 sorc / 1 trapper looks solid to me though.

  7. #7
    Community Member Superhanns's Avatar
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    Respect for being original but i will point out some things

    Tank: A real tank doing good melee dps and that has potentially alot more prr and saves is going to be alot better than this,

    Heals/healer: everybody is self sufficient these days but when a real healer is needed, 13 levels of fvs is going to have small heals and compared to a dedicated radiant savant it will look even worse.

    Trapper: a pure well played/built rogue will have better saves vs traps (by a long long way) and also have umd and consistantly out dps you by miles

    Buffer: the timers on your buffs will be short unless you spend extra sp extending them and taking the extend feat, not only that but they will be dispelled easy even in a place like sands and even if you was 25 due to your small caster levels

    CC: Ah nerve venom and stay frosty? i suppose it can cc at least... unless shiradi gets the much needed nerf people are going to bring down on it by making EE look like a joke then showing off about it

    This build really is a jack of all trades but master of none.

    have fun!
    Last edited by Superhanns; 06-02-2013 at 04:54 AM.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    I thought MM tops out at 9? 1 missile at lvl 1 + 1 per 2 lvls = 5 at lvl 9. That's why I only have lvl 6 arcane and tossed in trapping/umd. I also went with sorc instead of mage because I have a sorc. I also play later at night so I sometimes need to fill more roles.

    Yes I don't explain how the build works nearly as well as you did a month ago, but I didn't see your post! Honest! I was planning on waiting to see what actually goes live, but maybe you could help out with feedback Ancient if you see something critical missing! I'll optimize on live when I know what I'm working with.

    U18 13 FvS / 6 sorc / 1 trapper looks solid to me though.
    I was just offering information. It is great that others are looking at deep splash arcanes. Have you worked out your skill points yet? The skill points were tight for my build, even without trap skills.

  9. #9
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    The OP build is pretty messed up, but not for the reasons you state. With the new FVS enhancements...

    Magic missile tops out level 10.

    +3 arcane levels from FVS enhancements
    +3 arcane levels from chronoscope set
    +2 arcane levels from Radiance

    A level 2 arcane could max out magic missile.

    The OP also did a poor job of explaining why the new FVS enhancements work very well with shiradi force spam. If you would like to see what can be done with a 13 FVS starting point, here is the Divine Reactor
    What new enhancements? The build was billed specifically as a U18 build, before it was edited. Chromoscope set is a waste of three gear slots. You lose wings, you lose meteor swarm, you lose paladin saves and gain almost nothing.

    No offense but your build is kinda messed up too, even assuming the alpha enhancements go live as is. The lack of meteor swarm means that you will never compete with an sorc for DPS and you do not have the saves required to excel in solo EE. IMT and EMT are totally wasted feats as well. The 18 sorc/2 fvs idea you posted has some merit for (very) long term DPS, but we'll have to wait and see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    Have you worked out your skill points yet? The skill points were tight for my build, even without trap skills.
    Shadar-kai Assassin starts with 20 int (+2), so 7.5 ish skills lvl after tomes I think. I really like the idea of a racial invisibility hop or leap + escape for BB use. Of course, I really dislike the idea of needing 13M more ED xp...but I don't have to restart at level 1.

    I won't be able to max all my chosen skills, but some instead of max balance is normally ok.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    What new enhancements? The build was billed specifically as a U18 build, before it was edited. Chromoscope set is a waste of three gear slots. You lose wings, you lose meteor swarm, you lose paladin saves and gain almost nothing.

    No offense but your build is kinda messed up too, even assuming the alpha enhancements go live as is. The lack of meteor swarm means that you will never compete with an sorc for DPS and you do not have the saves required to excel in solo EE. IMT and EMT are totally wasted feats as well. The 18 sorc/2 fvs idea you posted has some merit for (very) long term DPS, but we'll have to wait and see.
    The build was indeed labeled u18, but then proceeded to talk about Prot 5 and other things that only exist in the new enhancement pass.

    My build wasn't a theory build, I spent days tweaking it on test and running it through EEs solo. It was able to make it through cabal for one without using the shrine and without leaving the quest or using potions. Something my NovaSoul build was not able to do. The deep splash builds may look very atypical, but the real test will be what they can accomplish... not arm chair analysis. And when it goes live, I'll be happy to provide the videos.
    Last edited by Ancient; 06-02-2013 at 10:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    IMT and EMT are totally wasted feats as well.
    You do know that they changed these feats on test, right? They now add crit chance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    1 Arti or Rogue/ 13 FVS/ 6 Sorc
    I can't log on to lamania to check, but I think you might be better served by going wiz over sorc. If I recall correctly, you can get the chain missile SLA with 6 wiz levels (as well as the MM SLA). The advantages would be the SLA's, a second enhancement tree that gives more force crits and two extra feats. The disadvantages, slower casting and no elemental SLAs. and a hit on spell points.

    It is too bad they did clerics soooo wrong in the enhancement revamp. If they simply cloned the FVS offensive casting tree for cleric's, I would be suggesting a 12 cleric/7 wiz/1 arti mix.

  14. #14
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    The build was indeed labeled u18, but then proceeded to talk about Prot 5 and other things that only exist in the new enhancement pass.

    My build wasn't a theory build, I spent days tweaking it on test and running it through EEs solo. It was able to make it through cabal for one without using the shrine and without leaving the quest or using potions. Something my NovaSoul build was not able to do. The deep splash builds may look very atypical, but the real test will be what they can accomplish... not arm chair analysis. And when it goes live, I'll be happy to provide the videos.
    The original post before it was edited talked about U18 only.

    I don't do armchair analysis. I farm EEs extensively and have soloed almost every 6 man quest in the game. I just don't bother posting about it, because most of it is simply not challenging.

    Soloing cabal for one without shrines or pots is certainly something novel for a caster, but it's not exactly useful considering how easy this quest is and the fact that there is a shrine right outside the quest. And also I have thousands of mana pots just sitting in the bank at this point.

    Here are some solo benchmarks for truly challenging your build and proving its mettle:

    • Solo EE Tor 1h30m or less
    • EE PoP with beholder and lailat rooms ~40 mins
    • FoT EN or higher without relying on certain bugs
    • EE Thorn and paw end fight
    • EE Belly of the beast


    If your build can do these things consistently (e.g. without relying on the 5% queen buff or 1% super queen buff) then consider me impressed.


    PS: Intersting that they changed IMT/EMT, thanks for that info.

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    Doh!, I made the mistake of thinking U18 was enhancement changes planned, and not a live patch that is completely different. Build isn't for U18, it is for after the enhancement changes. Ill correct it! I really want to do it after I have an iconic base character, but I don't know when that will be.

    I have no doubt mage 7 is more dps than sorc 6 trapper 1. I require the trapping though, so it would be mage 6 vs. sorc 6. I play late at night, so when I join incomplete parties of any amount of players, I want to know every base is covered.

    I want to fill smaller groups in to bring them through any dungeon handling everything including traps that we run across.

    Thanks for all the feedback everyone, and for all the testing Ancient. Your feat list is probably far better than my toughness x9 one...and I need to look at wizard again, even though I've never played one.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 06-03-2013 at 01:14 AM.

  16. #16
    Community Member Sokól's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    The original post before it was edited talked about U18 only.

    I don't do armchair analysis. I farm EEs extensively and have soloed almost every 6 man quest in the game. I just don't bother posting about it, because most of it is simply not challenging.

    Soloing cabal for one without shrines or pots is certainly something novel for a caster, but it's not exactly useful considering how easy this quest is and the fact that there is a shrine right outside the quest. And also I have thousands of mana pots just sitting in the bank at this point.

    Here are some solo benchmarks for truly challenging your build and proving its mettle:

    • Solo EE Tor 1h30m or less
    • EE PoP with beholder and lailat rooms ~40 mins
    • FoT EN or higher without relying on certain bugs
    • EE Thorn and paw end fight
    • EE Belly of the beast


    If your build can do these things consistently (e.g. without relying on the 5% queen buff or 1% super queen buff) then consider me impressed.


    PS: Intersting that they changed IMT/EMT, thanks for that info.
    What build are you using to solo these quests?
    Argonnessen: Hilmir - Purkilius - Jinu - Vignir @ Blood Assassin´s

  17. #17
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    I used the standard 18/2 sorcerer paladin build with a few modifications. It's cookie cutter as hell, but probably for good reason.

  18. #18
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Excellent and interesting build! I might try it out for TRing purposes - how does it do leveling?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    Excellent and interesting build! I might try it out for TRing purposes - how does it do leveling?
    Ok so leveling as a 1 trapper 13 FVS should be really easy. You wear heavy armor, self heal, melee dps, and blade barrier. You can even stealth run if you build for it.


    I updated twists to include renewal based on experience with my druid in EE. Renewal at level 28 will heal for 21/tick, when mass regen will heal for 28.5 base (in shiradi), so it will be 70% as powerful as the best druid spell, but only single target. But at 5 mana it just fits in perfectly with MM in a 10 mana proc.

    Renewal + healing spring + cocoon + a ton of spell power + spot healing should cover healing. This should be especially true if you are paralyzing mobs with Shiradi procs.

    Renewal+energy burst twist would probably do just fine.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 07-16-2013 at 10:47 AM.

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