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  1. #1
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    Default Purple Dragon Paladins?

    Is anybody looking into a PDK 2/18 fighter/paladin? Specifically for tanking purposes. In theory it seems to synergise pretty well, but tanks tend to require a lot of feats.

  2. #2

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    You know, I considered it briefly. At first glance, the most interesting aspect of the PDK enhancement tree is the "CHA for attack/damage" capability, which seems like it should mesh well with Paladin.

    On closer inspection, though, I don't think it does. Any new Pally build worth anything is probably making use of the new version of Divine Might which adds CHA bonus to STR. So, my choices with PDK would seem to be:

    1. Dump STR, use CHA for damage, in which case Divine Might is useless, or
    2. Use Divine Might, in which case, I want to use STR for damage.

    In any reasonably built and barely-equipped case, I think <STR bonus> + <1/2 CHA bonus> is going to beat <full CHA bonus>, even when all level-ups go into CHA.

    IF not taking the CHA-weapon enhancement, then the PDK Pally 18/Fighter 2 feels a lot like any other Pally 18/Fighter 2 approach. I'm not clear that it brings much else to the Pally-tanking table?
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by cforce View Post
    You know, I considered it briefly. At first glance, the most interesting aspect of the PDK enhancement tree is the "CHA for attack/damage" capability, which seems like it should mesh well with Paladin.

    On closer inspection, though, I don't think it does. Any new Pally build worth anything is probably making use of the new version of Divine Might which adds CHA bonus to STR. So, my choices with PDK would seem to be:

    1. Dump STR, use CHA for damage, in which case Divine Might is useless, or
    2. Use Divine Might, in which case, I want to use STR for damage.

    In any reasonably built and barely-equipped case, I think <STR bonus> + <1/2 CHA bonus> is going to beat <full CHA bonus>, even when all level-ups go into CHA.

    IF not taking the CHA-weapon enhancement, then the PDK Pally 18/Fighter 2 feels a lot like any other Pally 18/Fighter 2 approach. I'm not clear that it brings much else to the Pally-tanking table?
    Actually anything past a one for one point buy in Charisma for a STR + Divine Might Pali is a bad (really bad) deal. as 16 build points (18 CHA) only gets you +4 Charisma mod which translates into 2 STR.

    In other words you buy yourself +1 to hit and damage for 16 build points. (yeah I know you make your Lay on Hands better, it's still a terrible trade off).

    Best "min max" CHA score for a Divine Might Pali after the pass is probably 14 starting CHA (6 build points) with +4 tome and gear. This (WITH gear factored in) will net you +3 or +4 damage... without costing you damage (note even at the most expensive 3 for 1 point buy, taking any build points out of STR to put in CHA is a terrible deal, as is spending any points in CHA that could have gone into STR.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  4. #4
    Community Member skullzz's Avatar
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    Default

    I almost want to say 18socr/2fight melee caster.

    Max CHA for sorc spells and still be able to swing those weapons for decent dmg.
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  5. #5

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    The problem I ran into while trying to do a fighter/paladin is that you need so much in strength to do cleave and greater cleave - you can't to the epic crit feat since you won't have enough Str. So DPS wise you're about the same as before and you have a benefit to your intimidate and perhaps smites. But for me it felt like I was losing out on just making a good fighter tank instead. Benefit - self healing. Negative low end dps compared to a pure fighter or paladin.

    I'm sure I need to work a little bit more on it but I had a hard time getting it to feel 'right'.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by skullzz View Post
    I almost want to say 18socr/2fight melee caster.

    Max CHA for sorc spells and still be able to swing those weapons for decent dmg.
    That one actually sounds more appropriate then a fighter paladin. That would make sense since you would care about cleave and such.

  7. #7
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    I'm actually planning a PDK/bard mix personally.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Wanesa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skullzz View Post
    I almost want to say 18socr/2fight melee caster.

    Max CHA for sorc spells and still be able to swing those weapons for decent dmg.
    I had same idea but it seems not work. With half BAB you will not hit anything. Sorcerer has to wield something with spell power boost and these items cannot be used for fighting (especially, with reduced BAB. At LVL 20, you will suffer -9 to hit in compare to full fighter)

    I suggest to try 18Bard/2fighter.

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanesa View Post
    I had same idea but it seems not work. With half BAB you will not hit anything. Sorcerer has to wield something with spell power boost and these items cannot be used for fighting (especially, with reduced BAB. At LVL 20, you will suffer -9 to hit in compare to full fighter)

    I suggest to try 18Bard/2fighter.
    Extend + Tensers = permanent +4 str, dex, con and 25 BAB which is higher with 2 compared to pure fighter at lvl 25. If build right battle casters with dreadnought solo EH faster than shiradi's, have tried both. Pure caster might be better on EE because you dont really want to get hit as often.

  10. #10
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    I was thinking of trying to build a 17cleric/1Fighter/2Paladin & possibly LR+1 to an 18cleric/2 Paladin or 17cleric/3paladin (or other options) when LR's become available.

    Basically trying to do a solid Healer (leveraging mana-free auras/bursts as much as possible) with all cleaves & Momentum Swing (& possibly Lay Waste) for some mana-free DPS (using DoT on bosses) & max Charisma Synergy leveraging the high saves & extra turns as well as to-hit/damage. Not worrying about DCs and only doing healing/Light with some melee DPS with some cherry-picked extra survivability from Sacred Defender.

    There may be better options once WarPriests drop in 19.1 but I like Clerics & Paladins and was my best idea so far on how to possibly leverage the PDK. I would love to build an effective Self Healing Tank with 17/3 & US & Intolerant Blow'ed Divine Punishment but it may not be in the cards. If a Tank isn't viable maybe a survivable melee Cleric on the front line healing with Auras/burts/mass with semi-decent melee/DPS supplemented with triple-stacked dots would be OK.

    Has anyone given this a go and any feedback whether it is decent or not (any builds to share)?
    Last edited by Nodoze; 08-12-2013 at 03:02 PM.

  11. #11
    Community Member PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    I'm actually planning a PDK/bard mix personally.
    Yeah, I want to give this a try, myself, just worried that the 1st level as fighter will nuke my skills to oblivion.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    Yeah, I want to give this a try, myself, just worried that the 1st level as fighter will nuke my skills to oblivion.
    I did a bladeforged jugg, you can get it to work you are just going to need some tomes most likely depending on the build. Pdk Bards might be a really good option for spell singer bards, pump up your dc's sky high and still have a viable melee option.

  13. #13
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodoze View Post
    I was thinking of trying to build a 17cleric/1Fighter/2Paladin & possibly LR+1 to an 18cleric/2 Paladin or 17cleric/3paladin (or other options) when LR's become available.

    Basically trying to do a solid Healer (leveraging mana-free auras/bursts as much as possible) with all cleaves & Momentum Swing (& possibly Lay Waste) for some mana-free DPS (using DoT on bosses) & max Charisma Synergy leveraging the high saves & extra turns as well as to-hit/damage. Not worrying about DCs and only doing healing/Light with some melee DPS with some cherry-picked extra survivability from Sacred Defender.

    There may be better options once WarPriests drop in 19.1 but I like Clerics & Paladins and was my best idea so far on how to possibly leverage the PDK. I would love to build an effective Self Healing Tank with 17/3 & US & Intolerant Blow'ed Divine Punishment but it may not be in the cards. If a Tank isn't viable maybe a survivable melee Cleric on the front line healing with Auras/burts/mass with semi-decent melee/DPS supplemented with triple-stacked dots would be OK.

    Has anyone given this a go and any feedback whether it is decent or not (any builds to share)?
    This thread got me thinking so I took a stab at a Post-Expansion PDK Paladin/Cleric build.

    Feedback requested:

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...40#post5064940

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