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  1. #141
    Hero Marcus-Hawkeye's Avatar
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    A player could be doing stupid, dumb stuff. As long as they listen and learn, then I don't have a problem. It's the ones that keep repeating the same dumb behaviour and not listening that I really consider bad players.

  2. #142
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    Actually the Barb his is own enemey in term of taking damage. Maybe try playing one?

    Also "gimping DPS" by let's say putting point in UMD for self healing... isn't that much of gimping, is it? Same with some APs for healing amp.

    In heroic level, I don't see how it is possible for a Barb to deal more damage VS a caster AoEing everything. Talking overall here, not just single target since that's not what's gonna save you time the most. If you deny that being able to split and clear what has to be cleared isn't faster... well ok. Dreams are fun.
    deal more damage? no and they shouldn't. frustrate the caster because you kill faster than them? yes and its more fun when they actually try to get that kill before you.

  3. #143
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    It's the second trap that kills the Barbs.

    (and the first one kills the Cleric)
    that's why you put the cleric far away from the trap so when you get past it, they just teleport to you. or does that only work with hires?

  4. #144
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    Well that's interesting. Though I do expect Turbine to eventually change the functionality allowing it.
    Yeah I don't know what to think about it. I do hate how I can't tell if it's a bug or feature for sure.

  5. #145
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    Without realizing it, I think, you admitted to playing only classes that can be self sufficient and can't understand why a player would not also. That's the attitude and mentality this game has gotten to which makes players feel like they have to play the optimal build with self sufficiency built into it. Never mind the guy who wants to play that max DPS build that survives on pots. The mentality in the game has shifted to self sufficient builds, which are the FOTM builds. Players feel as though they won't get any help from others and have to resort to playing something more fitting for groups.
    Sorry for the late reply, but I had just a few comments on this.

    A cleric dilly monk is not a flavor of the month. I have been running this for over two years.
    I am also having trouble with your thoughts on getting help from others. For instance, if I wanted my pure fighter to be able to do traps, what would you say? Not going to happen unless I splash, right? It would be up to Turbine to change this. I can cry all I want, but I know the answer if I want a fighter that can do traps.

    Now you have a person that knows how to be sufficient, but they choose not to. (By this I mean, splashing umd, cleric dilettante, etc.). They can cry all they want, but it is not going to change unless Turbine does something about it. I have no problem with people that want to play whatever they like, but they cannot expect the world.

    Same thing can be said for BB. People know what they can handle, but they want to keep up with the Jones’s and only run the elite. This is not Turbine, yours or my fault. The entitlement issue is the main problem.
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  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    deal more damage? no and they shouldn't. frustrate the caster because you kill faster than them? yes and its more fun when they actually try to get that kill before you.
    Have you played the game? If you think a barb, however geared he is, stands a chance vs a good caster in heroic level, you've been missing something. That's beside the point anyway.

    What I said is if the barb wants to dish "incredible" damage, he NEEDS a healer. While most classes can split and solo stuff on their own. Even more so with casters that can pretty much 1-2 shot everything from distances without taking much damages at all.

    That is where raw DPS doesn't mean top DPS.

    Edit: For a barb to be able to keep up with it's top DPS, you need to be a good geared player, there are no magic tricks around it.
    Last edited by Azarddoze; 07-17-2013 at 08:24 PM.
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  7. #147
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    Sorry for the late reply, but I had just a few comments on this.

    A cleric dilly monk is not a flavor of the month. I have been running this for over two years.
    I am also having trouble with your thoughts on getting help from others. For instance, if I wanted my pure fighter to be able to do traps, what would you say? Not going to happen unless I splash, right? It would be up to Turbine to change this. I can cry all I want, but I know the answer if I want a fighter that can do traps.

    Now you have a person that knows how to be sufficient, but they choose not to. (By this I mean, splashing umd, cleric dilettante, etc.). They can cry all they want, but it is not going to change unless Turbine does something about it. I have no problem with people that want to play whatever they like, but they cannot expect the world.

    Same thing can be said for BB. People know what they can handle, but they want to keep up with the Jones’s and only run the elite. This is not Turbine, yours or my fault. The entitlement issue is the main problem.
    i didn't mean to say that a cleric dilly monk is a FOTM. i kinda rushed my comment and combined a couple thoughts together.

    what i was trying to say is that the mentality in todays DDO is that everyone is expected to be self sufficient regardless of class/build. if you cant be self sufficient and keep up with the group, than you don't belong. there aren't many players that do or like playing the healer role, so people get frustrated and quit or they make themselves a self sufficient character. they want to play the FOTM because they are supposed to be able to do good dps, self heal easily and that's whats popular right now. the other option is to build a helf with cleric dilly, but it still means they don't feel like they can play the build that they really want to play.

    i will put in a disclaimer here by saying that i do fully believe in being self sufficient and if you are going to play a barb or fighter with no umd or dilly, than you do have to learn to play with pots. but it does go beyond being able to just drink pots. theres many other things that a player has to be able to do too to survive like agro management, good gear and killing before mobs kill you.

    what i mean by getting help from others is that its random. it depends on the group you are in if they are going to ignore you when you are in trouble or if they are going to throw you a heal or if they are going to run over and help kill for you. if it happens enough to people, like myself which is why i avoid BYOH as much as possible, they get upset, forum stories are created, they build a self sufficient character instead, quit or something like that.

  8. #148
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    Have you played the game? If you think a barb, however geared he is, stands a chance vs a good caster in heroic level, you've been missing something. That's beside the point anyway.

    What I said is if the barb wants to dish "incredible" damage, he NEEDS a healer. While most classes can split and solo stuff on their own. Even more so with casters that can pretty much 1-2 shot everything from distances without taking much damages at all.

    That is where raw DPS doesn't mean top DPS.

    Edit: For a barb to be able to keep up with it's top DPS, you need to be a good geared player, there are no magic tricks around it.
    LOL! have you played a barb before? i cant speak for all barbs, but i can speak for mine. i make casters work for their kills.

    my barb does NOT need a healer while dishing out incredible dps. you don't even know how much i have been able to accomplish in DDO without a healer and accomplished things without buffs, especially buffs like blur, DW, GH and resists. my barb has soloed some of the old epics back BEFORE there was difficulty levels that mainly caster types were soloing and ruling the scroll economy.

    a barb, if played well can do anything and everything that any of the other classes can do. its called using skill and knowledge of the game. i wont say my barb is superawesomecool, but i will say i know how to play using my head and having a little patience.

  9. #149
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    Have you played the game? If you think a barb, however geared he is, stands a chance vs a good caster in heroic level, you've been missing something. That's beside the point anyway.

    What I said is if the barb wants to dish "incredible" damage, he NEEDS a healer. While most classes can split and solo stuff on their own. Even more so with casters that can pretty much 1-2 shot everything from distances without taking much damages at all.

    That is where raw DPS doesn't mean top DPS.

    Edit: For a barb to be able to keep up with it's top DPS, you need to be a good geared player, there are no magic tricks around it.
    LOL! have you played a barb before? i cant speak for all barbs, but i can speak for mine. i make casters work for their kills.

    my barb does NOT need a healer while dishing out incredible dps. you don't even know how much i have been able to accomplish in DDO without a healer and accomplished things without buffs, especially buffs like blur, DW, GH and resists. my barb has soloed some of the old epics back BEFORE there was difficulty levels that mainly caster types were soloing and ruling the scroll economy.

    a barb, if played well can do anything and everything that any of the other classes can do dps and survivability. its called using skill and knowledge of the game. i wont say my barb is superawesomecool, but i will say i know how to play using my head and having a little patience.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    LOL! have you played a barb before? i cant speak for all barbs, but i can speak for mine. i make casters work for their kills.

    my barb does NOT need a healer while dishing out incredible dps. you don't even know how much i have been able to accomplish in DDO without a healer and accomplished things without buffs, especially buffs like blur, DW, GH and resists. my barb has soloed some of the old epics back BEFORE there was difficulty levels that mainly caster types were soloing and ruling the scroll economy.

    a barb, if played well can do anything and everything that any of the other classes can do dps and survivability. its called using skill and knowledge of the game. i wont say my barb is superawesomecool, but i will say i know how to play using my head and having a little patience.
    I will start as you did... LOL!

    But end it there.

    PS: I doubt you know what real zerging is now. Thought we were talking about speed/efficiency not only what you can or not achieve. Also... i'd love to see you try to outkill my casters while I kill everything from distance. Your best bet is to deal the last blow in between my aoe ticks. That if everything isn't dead yet. And yes i've played a Barb.

    Same with an instant kill + DPS caster... but that's not through all the game.

    Edit: Without any bragging, assumptions are made from what you can compare to. Not saying you can't outkill casters, as I did with my barb as well (but I had a healer 75% of the time since we were a static team and it matters as a barb). Since the thread is about bad players, I think this is relevant.
    Last edited by Azarddoze; 07-17-2013 at 09:18 PM.
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  11. #151
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    I will start as you do... LOL!

    But end it there.

    PS: I doubt you know what real zerging is now. Thought we were talking about speed.
    yeah, speed or no speed it doesn't matter. casters should be faster at it but not always. while they try to round up mobs to wail or kite them through acid fog, my barb is killing the other ones with just a few hits. i know how to kill fast and move on at a pace that's dizzying and being able to heal/use regen items between mob fights, but it takes some skill to do that. a lot of the dps players i have grouped with focus on 1 mob and stand still. i don't do that. i round them up and utilize my glancing blows while still moving to avoid damage. my barb may not be able to fully heal in a button push, but she doesn't die easily and i know how to keep my health up regardless of a zerg run solo a side or not.

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    yeah, speed or no speed it doesn't matter. casters should be faster at it but not always. while they try to round up mobs to wail or kite them through acid fog, my barb is killing the other ones with just a few hits. i know how to kill fast and move on at a pace that's dizzying and being able to heal/use regen items between mob fights, but it takes some skill to do that. a lot of the dps players i have grouped with focus on 1 mob and stand still. i don't do that. i round them up and utilize my glancing blows while still moving to avoid damage. my barb may not be able to fully heal in a button push, but she doesn't die easily and i know how to keep my health up regardless of a zerg run solo a side or not.
    Run till red alert... Fire wall (or icestorm) + acid rain + ottos' sphere (cold spell) or DBF. A barb just can't beat that, sorry... I know what i'm saying.
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  13. #153
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    Run till red alert... Fire wall (or icestorm) + acid rain + ottos' sphere (cold spell) or DBF. A barb just can't beat that, sorry... I know what i'm saying.
    ok, you win. if the caster doesn't die at red alert and able to get off all those spells while being double harried than he can kill quicker than a barb. that would be the extreme case that i guess you are used to playing and not the norm in most zerg groups. but feel free to tell me im wrong that it is the norm.

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    ok, you win. if the caster doesn't die at red alert and able to get off all those spells while being double harried than he can kill quicker than a barb. that would be the extreme case that i guess you are used to playing and not the norm in most zerg groups. but feel free to tell me im wrong that it is the norm.
    You're 100% right. That's why skills matter. Also why it makes SUCH a difference and that people can be positively or negatively surprised when someone plays a class they've seen do good or bad before.

    Throw your aoes while youre still running so they kick in right when you stop moving. Then do a 180, cast the direct damage aoes while the mobs are still running at you and they're pretty much dead before they get to you.

    Then displacement (if needed) + being able to jump on and off and you're golden.

    Also... I don't wanna "win" an arguement. I really don't care but things are what they are. I play those games to pull out the max I can out of characters I play. That is my own way of enjoying those games. And... playing a casters is what i've done throughout just too many MMOs now. In DDO, they are king of heroic level (when it comes to speed) if played right not because I want them to... but because they are.

    Edit: Just like you say you rock on your Barb (and I believe you, honestly) while i've seen so many bad barbs relying on heals (like me).
    Last edited by Azarddoze; 07-17-2013 at 09:45 PM.
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  15. #155
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    You're 100% right. That's why skills matter. Also why it makes SUCH a difference and that people can be positively or negatively surprised when someone plays a class they've seen do good or bad before.

    Throw your aoes while youre still running so they kick in right when you stop moving. Then do a 180, cast the direct damage aoes while the mobs are still running at you and they're pretty much dead before they get to you.

    Then displacement (if needed) + being able to jump on and off and you're golden.

    Also... I don't wanna "win" an arguement. I really don't care but things are what they are. I play those games to pull out the max I can out of characters I play. That is my own way of enjoying those games. And... playing a casters is what i've done throughout just too many MMOs now. In DDO, they are king of heroic level (when it comes to speed) if played right not because I want them to... but because they are.

    Edit: Just like you say you rock on your Barb (and I believe you, honestly) while i've seen so many bad barbs relying on heals (like me).
    i think the whole thing got a little sidetracked with personal accomplishments and should have stayed more focused on the general player base. an individual player is able to stay alive and be an asset to a group regardless of what kind of group it is and what build they are, but there are plenty out there that need to know the limits of their class and how to make their weakness less of a weakness. this is why its important not to prejudice classes for what they can and cant do. instead its what the person controlling the character can or cant do.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    i think the whole thing got a little sidetracked with personal accomplishments and should have stayed more focused on the general player base. an individual player is able to stay alive and be an asset to a group regardless of what kind of group it is and what build they are, but there are plenty out there that need to know the limits of their class and how to make their weakness less of a weakness. this is why its important not to prejudice classes for what they can and cant do. instead its what the person controlling the character can or cant do.
    That's why it comes back to: There are different difficulty settings in the game to suit different kind of players. Those should be the filter.

    But why what is that "you" can achieve important? Because that's how you can tell what your playing field is. Think we're done. Was fun.
    Kal Vas Flam... Corp Por... Corp Por

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  17. #157
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    I feel Arcane and Divine is easily the most powerful for heroic leveling. The most effective kiting plan, self heals, and interaction with party members in form of buffs/heals/crowd control.

    The new Iconic classes seems clever of Turbine. It addresses the self heal issue slightly, only because Reconstruct- lack off- is necessary without a way to increase Repair Amp. Excited to see what they implement in the other classes.

    The Bladeforged start rather well geared compared to fresh off Korthos beginners. I get most of my fun from them helping my friends farm Gianthold/Challenges/etc anytime with its stock gear. Well designed ready-set-go bank/farm toons for experienced players. Or durable, effective characters for new players.

    I can't ever be sure what someone may or may not know. Politely telling or asking is actually part of social interaction as is being able to deal with various people in a civil manner. Have a good one.
    Last edited by Rubbinns; 07-17-2013 at 10:16 PM.

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    The smart players do.
    Following that logic there are 8 races, only 3 that are smart to play, 11 destinies, only maybe 4 or 5 that are smart to play, 13 classes, only maybe 5 that are smart to play pure. So with so much that of it that is dumb to play, why are we playing this game again? Or is the game just some sort of test designed to separate the smart players who recognize and play the right options from the dumb ones who think it's about playing it in the way they find enjoyable?

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I HATE necro 2.

    Hate it.

    Hate it.

    HATE it.

    Suck it up for a few hours and stop being a drain on groups.
    My groups never complain and if they did I would simply find a game that doesn't make me do that to have fun and stop being a burden on groups here.

    I'm not one to pay for a product that expects me to "suck it up" when I use it like a good little lamb.

  20. #160
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Following that logic there are 8 races, only 3 that are smart to play, 11 destinies, only maybe 4 or 5 that are smart to play, 13 classes, only maybe 5 that are smart to play pure. So with so much that of it that is dumb to play, why are we playing this game again? Or is the game just some sort of test designed to separate the smart players who recognize and play the right options from the dumb ones who think it's about playing it in the way they find enjoyable?
    This is what is important about the whole topic. If everyone were “playing it in the way they find enjoyable”, then we would not have all the threads like this.

    BUT, every few days we see a new thread bringing up matters that all come back to this very topic. Using your term, why do the “dumb ones” come here and pi$$ and moan all the time because the dirty zergers are mean? If it is not about xp/minute, or being the best DPS, why all the uproar? You have fun in your way and I will do the same. When people come here complaining, all I think is sour grapes as well as jealousy. (not you personally)
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