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  1. #21
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    Lol! Really? You having trouble in heroics :P

    Nothing really gets to me concerning what other players do. Very few quests can cause me to wipe from Dungeon Alerts or aggroing 3 rooms full of mobs. My lfms are all welcome. Pike if you dont know it, Ill explain what I can. Game is 2 ez to be crying over something funny like your barb experience.

  2. #22
    Community Member Jeremiah179's Avatar
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    I jump in pug groups all the time. I am to lazy to post my own lfm 99% of time. Plus I am very impatient so I would just say... "okay - lets go!" after first person joined..."

    Then they would ask, what about a cleric? ... Don't we want more people... Can we do it on Elite...I can feel myself being sorry I tried to make a group already!! and I am just writing a response!

    ***

    To the OP -- Try to be civil and polite... but finish quest and move on. Or if person is seriously harming group... recall and reform and move on.

    Usually it just makes for a funny story and the need to part company and work on something else for a few minutes then join something else...

    ***

    I find many good players on my server in the pug world - a lot of us jump around in anything available... most people cooperate, most people are patient and understanding and civil. But it IS ALWAYS OBVIOUS when you are in a "one and done" run that definitely is not doing another quest with the current group...lol (note: most quests and raids are a one and done in the pug world, and maybe that is a good thing)

    So I have been pretty happy in the DDO world and find this issue largely a non-issue for me.

    Guilds help by the way -- players should join one...it can make the game more enjoyable, at least it does for members of our guild (I think). Gives you a place to go talk about the ridiculous situation you accidentally got yourself into in that pug!
    Jeremiiah - Isaiiah - Zephaniiah - Ghallanda - Old Timers Guild

  3. #23
    Community Member gaffneyks's Avatar
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    Tr'ing is from a bygone time when there was not enough content. All being a TR means is that you are good at zerging through the High xp quest to level 20.

    Most tr's only run the same high xp/minute quest over and over with max Green steel geared toons. There is no correlation between having multiple lives and being a good player.

    Was that way before the XP stones, xp Tomes & xp pots, still that way after.

    Some people don't like to hear that as they feel some sense of self-actualization from having so many past lives, but it is the truth. Past lives show very little about a players skill level.

    I know people who have many many past lives and never run epic elite content as they feel it is too much trouble.

  4. #24
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    i just want to add a bit about content and players with wings.

    i can only speak for myself here but on 2 of my toons im on my 3rd
    life and it is only now that im starting to see certain content.
    my first 2 lives on each where done with a friend. this friend dosnt have
    the content to do a 3rd life so im pugging and learning.

    there is still loads of the game ive never seen, so please just because
    somone has wings dont think they know all quests. im sure there are
    others out there similar to me.

    your friend sil

  5. #25
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    Default Nowhere

    I do not draw any lines whatsoever.

    All quests can be finished at level and on elite with up to 50% terribaddies.

    Why be mean, or cop any kind of attitude whatsoever? Completely pointless.

    Most of the time you have one of two things happening:


    1) New or inexperienced player, deserves help not grief. Try it some time.

    2) Bored knucklehead trolling LFM. Deserves silence at the worst. Pick up his stone and finish.


    In particular with the decline in attendance around here, I think everyone ought to suck it up, and play with whoever joins.

    To be mean is to be lazy, to insult incompetence is to be lazy, to boot unskilled players is lazy.

    Not buying the horrible TR thing. Extremely rare event to have a TR in group so bad that you do not complete. Not just rare. Never happens.

    Me personally, I have two individuals on ignore after 6 years of DDO, and neither are there for game play reasons.
    Last edited by Seere; 07-16-2013 at 07:54 PM.

  6. #26
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    I would like to add knowing what the #### to do is dependent on a persons personal experience. If you get someone whose mostly in a static group like mine where we make sure all the bases are covered and work together, and tend not to duplicate spells and such to have a wide range and doesn't step outta that to pug, their idea of what to do is going to be vastly different than someone's gaming experience is comprised entirely of pugs where taking care of oneself is a survival skill quickly learned. And neither is more right or wrong than the other, just different and clashing mindsets when they are suddenly thrown together.

    Another contributive factor is that most people squelch and don't ever talk to the players explaining things. They assume they 'know why they died or why people don't wanna play with them". In some cases (not all, some players are honestly just jerks) they actaully have NO clue and have risen to the top through random pugs having enough success to gain the levels, but no one actaully sits down with them and discusses why their playstyle is bad and they don't have the initiative or self-awareness to research elsewhere online. Which is a growing cultural trait in America as we stop teaching our children to think and assess their failures more and more in schools and such. I"m not saying you HAVE to try to help them, or that in many cases it would even be well received, but for the people who do go outta their way and players who are receptive to improvement it can turn a 'bad' player into an awesome one. We never know til we try helping if they are receptive or not. Helping is not always well received, when I see obvious newb questions in advice I direct them to the wiki, and a great many think it's out of spite or I can't be bothered to help them, but they clearly don't understand that I'm trying to direct them to the resources to help themselves far beyond the question right now and to something that will help them their entire time at DDO. I'd rather enable them to do for themselves and have a source of information to help them down the road. Give a player a fish vs. fishing I suppose.

    This all occurred LONG before stoning, but quite a few people automatically blame the stones and nothing else creating the mess. And now that the stones of xp are here, and highly sought after publicly on both forums and trade channels in game, reinforcing to the new players that these are wonderful things everyone wants so badly they are looking to trade more plat and rare items than most of the people have seen yet, the ratio of confused people coasting by is probably a lot higher since they don't have to learn their way up, but it's just gotten easier for them to be confused in higher level groups, it's not the stones fault they are confused.
    Turtel, Turtley Wrath, Tortoisse, Waterssong, Victerr Creed, Utahraptor, Velocaraptor, Minddancer, Loggerhead, Matamata, Sulcata, Ticerratops, Sierrann, Hankx, Shartelhane

    Member of Highlords of Malkier! Help channel, everyone welcome in this channel!

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by eden2760 View Post
    ... It's my belief that the LFM constitutes a contract of sorts...
    Sorry, but I just don't understand what you mean. A contract is where something of value is exchanged for something else of value.

    In this case you broadcast a request for assistance and people respond to this request by joining the group and helping out. What are you providing in exchange for their hard work? It is not the quest rewards which they would get regardless of your presence.

    Not only do you expect them to work for free but you also fail to provide them with standard items like healing potions. That is like failing to provide lunch for friends that help you move.

    Why do you believe that these free volunteers owe you anything at all?

    Maybe if you paid more than nothing you might get better volunteers.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waaye View Post
    Sorry, but I just don't understand what you mean. A contract is where something of value is exchanged for something else of value.

    In this case you broadcast a request for assistance and people respond to this request by joining the group and helping out. What are you providing in exchange for their hard work? It is not the quest rewards which they would get regardless of your presence.

    Not only do you expect them to work for free but you also fail to provide them with standard items like healing potions. That is like failing to provide lunch for friends that help you move.

    Why do you believe that these free volunteers owe you anything at all?

    Maybe if you paid more than nothing you might get better volunteers.
    How can you not understand what he said but still argue about it? Reading between the lines and a little effort maybe?

    See there are different kind of people and, for me and possibly the person you quoted, some understands what respect is in a MMO. Some doesn't and it's ok because we don't draw the lines at the same place. But when you get mixed up with strangers, you have to make that little effort to try to get along. Unhappy? Leave the group and create your own LFM.

    The fact that you kind of attack in a laughable way means more than you think about how you must interract with people over the internet. It's not like the point you quoted was invalid. It came from someone who has different beliefs than yours.

    No one owes nothing to anyone. But if there is a description in the LFM, it would be the least to fulfill what is stated.
    Kal Vas Flam... Corp Por... Corp Por

    ...And then there was silence

  9. #29
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waaye View Post
    Sorry, but I just don't understand what you mean. A contract is where something of value is exchanged for something else of value.

    In this case you broadcast a request for assistance and people respond to this request by joining the group and helping out. What are you providing in exchange for their hard work? It is not the quest rewards which they would get regardless of your presence.

    Not only do you expect them to work for free but you also fail to provide them with standard items like healing potions. That is like failing to provide lunch for friends that help you move.

    Why do you believe that these free volunteers owe you anything at all?

    Maybe if you paid more than nothing you might get better volunteers.
    Most of the time people join to do the quests for their own reasons/gains not to *help* someone out, unless the lfm specifically states *need help* So if I put up a citw lfm I have to pay everyone who joins for helping me out? Getting a completion and chance at their own loot is not enough incentive?

    lol at ":work for free" so does that mean all the loot in the chests and all the xp goes to the leader? Didnt think so.

  10. #30
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    Honestly, I usually draw the line halfway between the other person and myself!
    Last edited by SilkofDrasnia; 07-16-2013 at 11:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    Insulting the development team is not allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jendrak
    Somebody should definitely explain to Turbine that when they roll up a new GM that INT is not dump stat.

  11. #31
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    I don't have a problem with bad players. Only rude ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Am I expecting too much? Have the Otto's boxes given us a whole "class" of players who are completely clueless?
    I don't really buy into the idea that Otto's boxes are creating an influx of noobs in high level content. Playing through all the levels only once (or even twice) does little to give players an understanding of game mechanics and strategies, so I don't think Otto's box users are much worse off than if they had taken the long route.

  12. #32
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    I enjoy this game EXPECIALLY when i pug with bad players...
    they make me feel so cool

    and well...they only cost me 10% and a little effort to raise them

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Pretty soon reality will hit you and you'll realize nobody heals anymore.

    If you're not able to heal yourself have fun waiting around while the rest of the server is running quests.

    It's just how things are.
    This seems to be the mantra of the cool kids these days. The way I see it is if our groups effectiveness (DPS or whatever) is gimped because of this attitude that ultimate self-sufficiency is vital to running quests, I'll be pulling out my throwing axe so I'm on par with the group. At least I'll get a chuckle. Got your big ESOS? Cool story bro. Me too. Too bad you're attacking half as fast and doing half the damage with each attack because you can no-fail self heal. I know that's an exaggeration, but how about these players start holding up their end and doing some damage so we can finish the quest sometime this week? (Please note that I don't mean you in particular, Mr. Troll. I'm using "you" in a general sense.)

    Truth is a group of versatile self-sufficient toons will never be as effective as a coordinated group of dedicated specialists working as a team. The DDO mentality, however, is if you aren't able to cast heal you may as well not even play. That's unfortunate and frankly it's lazy. People just don't want to accept the responsibility of being relied upon to perform a relegated duty. That's way to risky for their ego. In this case we're talking about healing, but that applies to any role.

    That's my opinion, anyway.
    Katavina Leagond - Cannith

  14. #34
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosEmperorDragon View Post
    This seems to be the mantra of the cool kids these days. The way I see it is if our groups effectiveness (DPS or whatever) is gimped because of this attitude that ultimate self-sufficiency is vital to running quests, I'll be pulling out my throwing axe so I'm on par with the group. At least I'll get a chuckle. Got your big ESOS? Cool story bro. Me too. Too bad you're attacking half as fast and doing half the damage with each attack because you can no-fail self heal. I know that's an exaggeration, but how about these players start holding up their end and doing some damage so we can finish the quest sometime this week? (Please note that I don't mean you in particular, Mr. Troll. I'm using "you" in a general sense.)

    Truth is a group of versatile self-sufficient toons will never be as effective as a coordinated group of dedicated specialists working as a team. The DDO mentality, however, is if you aren't able to cast heal you may as well not even play. That's unfortunate and frankly it's lazy. People just don't want to accept the responsibility of being relied upon to perform a relegated duty. That's way to risky for their ego. In this case we're talking about healing, but that applies to any role.

    That's my opinion, anyway.
    Probably the ultimate in the do everything builds atm is the juggernaut. Now if manyshot is on cooldown yeah there dps is less than a pure barb. However is the mob dying in 3 secs compared to 2.5 secs really a big deal? Not to mention that when manyshot is active the barb is doing maybe 15% of the damage the jugg is putting out during that time period. Sorry but your opinion doesn't seem to hold any facts in it. Most do everything builds that are used are very strong as far as dps, self healing, and anything else they do. The people that sacrifice more than 5% or so dps to get self healing have done it wrong.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Most do everything builds that are used are very strong as far as dps, self healing, and anything else they do.
    If everyone played jug builds, sure. Or Monkcher or whatever "abuse the currect rules-set build" you want to favor that day. However that just isn't the case that most builds playing in even EE content are like that. Most people are messing around with their own ideas and I'm willing to bet that a fair amount of players don't even come on the forum looking for those builds. There's a wide variety of players out there. With the level cap at 25, EE content is hardly a massive hurdle you need a party of juggernauts to tackle. That's just an elitist myth, one that coddles their ego.
    Katavina Leagond - Cannith

  16. #36
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosEmperorDragon View Post
    If everyone played jug builds, sure. Or Monkcher or whatever "abuse the currect rules-set build" you want to favor that day. However that just isn't the case that most builds playing in even EE content are like that. Most people are messing around with their own ideas and I'm willing to bet that a fair amount of players don't even come on the forum looking for those builds. There's a wide variety of players out there. With the level cap at 25, EE content is hardly a massive hurdle you need a party of juggernauts to tackle. That's just an elitist myth, one that coddles their ego.
    Bad builds are bad builds not do everything self sufficiency builds.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Bad builds are bad builds not do everything self sufficiency builds.
    Agreed, and that's fine. I also agree that the build type you referred to is excellent. What we're talking about here is the majority of gamers, though. Admittedly I'm a bit biased, but what I see through my tinted lenses are elitist players who feel superior because their build can self-heal, whatever that build may be, however bad that build may be.
    Katavina Leagond - Cannith

  18. #38
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosEmperorDragon View Post
    Agreed, and that's fine. I also agree that the build type you referred to is excellent. What we're talking about here is the majority of gamers, though. Admittedly I'm a bit biased, but what I see through my tinted lenses are elitist players who feel superior because their build can self-heal, whatever that build may be, however bad that build may be.
    whats wrong with being able to do some self healing? Even with good divines trying to be a healer in EE's ive had guys with no ability to self heal at all dropping like flies, being able to just get some hp back in a bad spot can be very useful. Even better if you can throw one on someone else when they are in a bad spot. Why should people be looked down on if they put some self healing ability into their build? Heck its a bad thing now to twist in cocoon? get some umd? get silver flame pots?

    Yes yes teh ubez specialized party........what happens when the healer dc's? or even just him alone gets a bad lag patch? instant wipe? just because not one of the other five could fit in some umd for a scroll, twist in cocoon, or bother to heal off his blue bar cause it might give him -0.1% less damage? Its not a perfect gaming world by any stretch of the imagination, so people still going to expect the planets will align perfectly for this *perfect* specialized party. Good luck pugging with that expectation.

  19. #39
    Community Member Moltier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Probably the ultimate in the do everything builds atm is the juggernaut. Now if manyshot is on cooldown yeah there dps is less than a pure barb. However is the mob dying in 3 secs compared to 2.5 secs really a big deal? Not to mention that when manyshot is active the barb is doing maybe 15% of the damage the jugg is putting out during that time period. Sorry but your opinion doesn't seem to hold any facts in it. Most do everything builds that are used are very strong as far as dps, self healing, and anything else they do. The people that sacrifice more than 5% or so dps to get self healing have done it wrong.
    The dps difference is a lot bigger. More like double to the barb.
    This is especially noticable in random groups when i heal. With juggs, the quest goes pretty well, but slowly. With barbs, i have to heal them a lot, but the quest becames faster.

    Juggs are awesome coz they can do everything, not because they have good dps.
    Cannith
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  20. #40
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    wings don't mean anything anymore. a few years ago they actually meant something. today, with all the boosts in xp and skipping stones available to us and the "need for speed" "hurry up and cap" its way too easy to TR. what took players an average of a month depending on play time and if you followed the zerg to cap TR guide, now can take a few days while waiting out the 1 week timer. experience, knowledge and respect used to go along with wings. now everybody does it and can be done easily and quickly bypassing content without having to learn to play.

    No sir, they never meant anything at all. Any button pusher can TR...perhaps you follow your friend around for a whole life while he "shows you the ropes" or you hubby got you to play a toon and you capped together.... or wife, etc. There are a lot of reasons that you can get to cap and TR and not know anything at all about the qeusts or *** you are doing with yourself.

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